@Riot Writers & Foundation: You have to work out how the supernatural systems of this world function

SaltyToplaneGoat·8/2/2016, 2:20:46 PM·11 votes·969 views

It's usually one of the indicators to tell well written fantasy apart from generic stuff when the systems behind the magic are explained properly.

I could just look at my bookshelf right now and see tons of authors who did exactly that. It doesn't matter if it's Stroud's Bartimaeus, Paolini's Eragon, Aaronovitch's Rivers of London, Rothfuss' The Name of the Wind, Lukianenko's Nightwatch, Pratchett's Diskworld Novels, or Shinobu Ohtaka's Magi - they all spend a lot of time and effort trying to explain how the supernatural systems work, or how the people interacting with them think they work.

I think the only series that doesn't explain it that I can see right now from my desk is "Harry Potter" - but that's a children's book. A good one, with no doubt, but not exactly an example for high quality fantasy writing.

However, right now in the LoL universe things are just too vague - too vague to even take seriously. If everything is "somehow something magic", then I personally lose interest as the things themselves become meaningless. It becomes impossible to compare the things to another, and of course there is always the danger of the writers doing some stupid ass-pulls with the legitimation of it all being vague anyways.

As for how to do it, I think I have named several good titles above. You could go with the River's of London approach and have an apprentice try to measure magic with scientific means (Piltover Style), you could tell a story from the perspective of a magician or magical being, as it is in Stroud's or Lukianenko's works (Xerath as a candidate maybe? or maybe Ryze?) and how they thing about it, or also possible, you tell a story of a magician getting educated in magic what is something that many of the authors named above do (Ionia would be fitting here, as magic is more common there). And I am sure there are some more good options here.

However, there are a few things you need to clarify before: such as "What is Mana?" - "And what is mana SPECIFICALLY in THIS fantasy world?". Don't just steal concepts that already are part of the fantasy-canon. You are supposed to pick them up and develop them yourself, not just take them as you find them. Another issue would be how Runeterra stands in contact with other realms, such as Celestial, Void, Glade, etc. etc. I'm not even asking for a scientific analysis here, just for some very basic informations that make me see this world as something living and complex and not just another generic setting that I have seen getting poorly executed way too much in literature.

Of course there is also the way of explaining almost nothing and keeping everything mysthical, but the LoL universe lacks the atmosphere required for that. That would be something more found in works of Neil Gaiman, but nothing that would be enough to explain everything going in the world of Runeterra. And to be honest, you are kind late with doing that. When creating a world, establishing the basic rules is one of the things that should be done AS ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS.

To be honest I have almost zero hope that you guys ever get anything done - heck, we still have champions with effectively no lore, YEARS since the retcon. But please, don't add screwing up with something this basic to your list of shortcomings. Runeterra as a world has potential, and I'd hate to see this getting ruined by amateurish work from the writing department.

25 Comments

Warlord Dienekes8/2/2016, 9:32:43 PM5 votes

In the explain vs mystic debate on magic I am a pretty firm believer of Sanderson's 3 laws:

-An author's ability to solve conflict satisfactorily with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic -Limitations > Powers -Expand what you already have before you add something new

Or basically, if you want to make magic a mystical force you can't use it to solve the plot points. Gaiman, Tolkien, Martin, Abercrombie, Gemmell, Howard, etc. do not explain their magic at all and they're great fantasy writers. But, their magic users are almost never the main protagonists, and if magic is ever used to solve a plot point (Gandalf vs the Balrog, for example), then it must come at an extreme cost (Gandalf dies) otherwise magic itself seems cheap. But, that's because it is. There's a reason why I (personally) much prefer the characters who are mundane in a magic universe, because it is far less likely that they'll get out of a sticky situation with some mystical handwavy nonsense (though it does still happen, I think everyone who's ever read Batman for more than a year can think of at least one time where the explanation for his success was pure mumbo-jumbo bullshit).

I think this is also why I think the Bilgewater event is the strongest thing Riot has done. Truth be told, from a story perspective, the tension between Renekton and Nasus, or even Xerath and Azir is a stronger tension than Gangplank and MF. But, the story events of the Bilgewater event is about two non-magical characters using their cunning against each other. The only real magic used was with Twisted Fate, and that had a modicum amount of explanation to get it to work: TF needs his cards to do magic, which sets up why Graves giving TF the card was such a powerful moment. Now it's not a great explanation, but, it's something. It's a limitation to overcome.

When compared to the Xerath vs Nasus fight, which, yeah, has cool seeming moments, like Xerath mind controlling people and reforming and whatnot, but because we have no clue how any of it works, it's all just fancy light shows. Weird fancy light shows because we don't actually get to see the fancy lights, we just read about them.

So yeah, I'd agree with OP. If Riot wants to focus more of their storylines on magical characters, they need to explain how these magical beings work, and possibly more importantly how their powers are limited in meaningful ways that the reader can understand. Saying "Xerath's prison makes him weaker" is inherently meaningless because we have no frame of reference to how that limits him and what he can do with and without the prison. But actually giving limits and extents on the magic users powers can create complex situations that have actual tension as we, the reader, can understand what's going on beyond the vague X is stronger than Y because MAGIC.

Ebonmaw Dragon8/2/2016, 8:17:40 PM3 votes

It seems like there is a connection between the cosmos and the magic... and the spirits of each creature and the magic. I could even say that planets and stars are also considered some kind of "spiritual creatures" according to the lore of Soraka, Aurelion Sol, the Targonians and the World-runes of Ryze.

Most of the "magical" champions use their magic thanks to the source of a celestial body:

AurelionSol Diana Azir Leona Nasus Xerath Taric Ezreal Pantheon Stars (The Sun is considered star and the moonlight is just a reflection of the sun) Nami Diana Satelites (the moon itself) Ryze Riven Pantheon Malphite Planets Bard Soraka Warwick Celestial Beings (WW wants the heart of one) Veigar Corruption of the cosmos Velkoz Chogath KogMaw RekSai Malzahar Kassadin Lulu Other Dimensions

((Manifestations of the Nature such as the True Ice, the Cristals of Skarner race would be considered as a manifestation of the magical energy from the planet... just like the runes. Hextech would be usually considered magic that takes power from Runeterra as well since it uses magical cristals))

Or Spirits:

Illaoi Elise Galio Zed Swain Kalista Irelia Garen Udyr Spiritual power borrowed from others Ahri Lissandra Karthus {{campion:266}} Fiddlesticks Warwick Sion Mordekaiser Thresh Vladimir Zyra Spiritual power taken from others Brand Anivia Kindred Bard Maokai (All the Yordles) Spiritual creatures themselves Annie Irelia Janna Lux Shen Syndra Taliyah Magic from their own spirit Shyvana Nunu (Yeti) Alistar Trundle Nami Rengar Lulu (Fae) Kayle Morgana Fizz Velkoz Magical Creatures TahmKench Demons

(Those categories are usually mixed)

Ralanr8/2/2016, 3:07:10 PM2 votes

If I had to guess, magic in Runeterra is harnessing energy to do a specific thing.

Based on how Aurelion Sol describes it, magic is the ability to enforce your will onto something to shape it into form, like how pressure makes diamonds.

As Jareden said, magic is rare in Runeterra, but I'm not sure if it can be taught to anyone (like D&D wizards) or if you have to be born with the ability (like D&D sorcerers). Then of course you have to wonder if you can only do one type of magic or you just use the type you're more comfortable with.

Ryze seems to utilize magic in its purest form. But this could be because it was best to go the generalist route for his travels (because an Ice Mage makes the most sense in the Freljord, but not Shurima).

Then we have Leblanc and Swain. Leblanc's magic could be something passed down, but is it taught or is there a ritual for it? Swain seems to function like a warlock (imo) and draws power through Beatrice (though she is also his magical conduit, so who knows?).

Syndra shows that people can be born with intense magical power, and her spheres could be a sign of her preferring to use it that way, but it might be that she can only utilize it that way. Maybe Syndra is incapable of learning a fireball like Annie.

TF got his magic from his people, so that showcases magic can be learned. But was TF just someone capable of learning it or could anyone? Considering how easily they kicked him out for breaking their rules, it implies that a magic user isn't a huge loss (I could be terribly wrong) and could be replaced.

Note that I'm avoiding divine magic like Illaoi summoning the will of her god and hextech.

I theorize that magic can be taught and learned by anyone, but the means to do so have been almost completely forgotten, making current teachings and the practitioners a shadow of their ancestors glory.

Probably has something to do with the protectorate and magelords.

FloRaider428/2/2016, 9:14:54 PM2 votes

I'd like to say: "Stop overanalyzing it, it's just a game", but you do make some good points and I think it would be interesting to see the world of Runeterra fleshed out more.

Only complaint is that you seem kind of demeaning about it. LoL has to reestablish the whole lore after the retcon, has to encompass several different champions and factions and has to be able to implement all potential new champions into the game. Comparing this to a book, which has no restraints in terms of narrative and no problems with potential new releases, feels just wrong. I personally am fine with LoLs lore as long as it stays ahead of it's competition.

GaleWinUnleashed8/3/2016, 5:44:39 PM2 votes

Eragon in particular really nailed it for me. Magic is clearly explained as a redirection of the caster's energy at a 1:1 ratio; if you don't have the physical strength to lift a large boulder off of the ground, you can't do it with magic either. So magic becomes much less about brute force and more about creativity and proper preparation (being well-rested and fed and stockpiling additional energy if possible). It's about finding methods to accomplish the task in a more efficient manner, often one that can't be accomplished by mundane means. An excellent example of this is how Eragon learns to kill with minimal energy, simply by pinching or cutting an artery in the brain "with no more effort than it would take to lift a finger".

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

Fasmodey8/2/2016, 3:14:45 PM1 votes

I agree.

Riot shouldn't only focus on places like Noxus, Freljord, Shurima. They should explain some general things like magic, celestial beings, Sun Disc, Runeterra's Sol System etc. Runeterra may have a twin world.

SaltyToplaneGoat8/3/2016, 5:21:51 PM1 votes

bumps this because this is actually important

Rebonack8/29/2016, 4:03:33 PM1 votes

I've asked more or less the same question before. Namely, 'what IS magic in this setting?' We still haven't gotten much in the way of an answer. I feel like what League really needs is a campaign setting book akin to what you would buy for D&D. Ebberon, Forgotten Realms, Mystara, ect. Something that goes into detail about the nature of the setting, the people who live in it, the nations that the world contains, the place's history, and so on and so forth. All stuff that we won't get much information on given Riot's laser-like focus on champions in the the lore they release.

SaltyToplaneGoat8/12/2016, 5:57:36 PM1 votes

bumps, because this is still an issue

SaltyToplaneGoat8/29/2016, 2:22:01 PM1 votes

Bump, because this is still a thing.

ennear8/2/2016, 9:24:36 PM1 votes

Oh oh oh! I remember finding a post that gathered all the lore it could and tried to piece together the structure of the world and magic. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/Ertty23V-how-magic-the-cosmos-and-spirits-work-maybe-sod-if-i-know