Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

Dear Narrative, what is our exact role as Lore Fans?

TerraRising··25 votes·2,251 views

Well, it's been two weeks since Jaredan said that "technical difficulties" prevented the full champ bios from reaching the website pages and one week since the last significant discussion about fan input (Let's Talk Biographies.) Since then... nothing. Again, it's better communication from Narrative than in the past, but nowhere near where it actually should be.

At this moment, it honestly feels like they're stringing us along with minor conversations and trinkets while the major work is being done behind the scenes, without our input, knowledge or support. Of course, this plan of action will work, just like the previous times it's happened... oh.

So, I put it out there as a question for the Narrative team: What is our role as lore fans supposed to be, in the eyes of Riot and their Narrative team? Are we supposed to just be passive drones, absorbing these new stories (released at the leisure of Narrative) without criticizing too harshly or at all? Assuming the website stories will not be previewed (like the #PBE) and just released onto the champ pages when ready, are we really encouraged to give honest opinions when these stories are eventually released in the hopes that they will ever be changed for the better?

Seriously, are we lore fans just eagerly waiting for something that will never happen. Should we give up our hopes that Narrative will become a community-friendly team of Rioters that actively seeks and accepts our input as well as acknowledges our passion for this stuff?

You tell me, Riot.

27 Comments

Earl Eulrich11 votes

Well, at least for me my frustration turned to resignation. I´ll just cling to the old lore like an alcoholic to his bottle, living in my own (lore-)universe.

Keevalroy5 votes

Well, at least for me my frustration turned to resignation. I´ll just cling to the old lore like an alcoholic to his bottle, living in my own (lore-)universe.

When Twitch is in my games, I mute League and pretend he still says "Oh, what's that smell...oh it's me..." in his old voice :( I'll cling to the old lore with ya.

CupcakeTrap15 votes

Well, at least for me my frustration turned to resignation. I´ll just cling to the old lore like an alcoholic to his bottle, living in my own (lore-)universe.

I'm doing my best to incorporate what I can into Factions lore as it's released, but yeah, more and more it seems we're going to have to rely on fanon.

The retcon of the League of Legends from League of Legends came without any opportunity for community engagement. It drove a chasm between essentially all of the lore community's prior work and what Riot now trumpets as its new non-League League lore. They're basically making us choose. I choose the version of the League universe that has a League in it. I don't like seeing all these community members begging the Narrative team for scraps of lore, gushing praise for the slightest hint of community interaction. I think it's time we make our own lore. We can incorporate the pretty artwork and self-contained stories that Narrative's putting out—I think it's telling that, so far, nothing they've done would be prevented by the League's presence.

Keevalroy3 votes

What if...no I need my tinfoil hat for this.

Okay so...what if they were waiting for this? Hmm? They've said they wanted community interaction, and they value our opinions, yadda yadda. But what if they want us to make the lore? What if they were spending all this time and effort destroying the old lore so the community can rebuild it? Quite a devious plan, but what else does this silence mean if they aren't waiting?

CupcakeTrap12 votes

Intriguing, but my own tinfoil conspiracy theory is more like:

"Riot wants to make another game in the Runeterra universe. They have decided, rather than winding down LoL and starting something new, that they want to double-down and make a media empire out of LoL, like Blizzard has made out of Warcraft/Azaroth. They have concluded that a stock fantasy universe is necessary for this. The League is too indie, too cute, too quirky. They want stock, srs-business fantasy to make their books, movies, and roleplaying games. They're going to try to do HotS in reverse: make their first game their throwaway Smash Bros. what-if-this-happened action offering, and then build the rest. In other words, they made their spinoff first."

This makes me equally sad. The one consolation is that it indicates they'll stay hands-off as far as the League goes. I think this lore community can really make something special out of the Runeterra-with-League setting, while Riot's off stamping out its Leagueless stuff.

Earl Eulrich5 votes

The sad thing is, there would have been just as many options for spin-offs with the IoW/League intact. And there would even have been quite some options to expand on the Lore with little Spin-off games. If they want to make the Game with the biggest player-base of all times the Spin-off they are either overly ambitious or completely mad.

(and the actually saddest thing for me: They could have just talked with you awesome faction-lot and tried to incorporate a Gamemode that really is involved with the Lore to expand the Lore and the Immersion + getting the community on board...solving all of their problems in one go. Instead they just destroyed all Immersion and all trust in the Community. Must be the biggest mistake since the german elections in 1933 (and yea, i know i serve Godwin´s law here, as i think it´s rather appropriate to be a little overly drastic).

Ark Angel HFB3 votes

What if...no I need my tinfoil hat for this.

Okay so...what if they were waiting for this? Hmm? They've said they wanted community interaction, and they value our opinions, yadda yadda. But what if they want us to make the lore? What if they were spending all this effort destroying the old lore so the community can rebuild it? Quite a devious plan, but what else does this silence mean if they aren't waiting?

You think they care about our feelings and opinions?

They didn't even value our adjacency in the lore/game world.

Why would they care to involve us in the rebuilding?

Keevalroy1 votes

Your tinfoil hat isn't on tight enough to cut off circulation. That's why it doesn't make sense.

Also, do you believe I'm being serious about that absurd theory?

GenoXx10 votes

They keep us on the hook, while they fish for answers. Sadly I've lost my faith and respect.

Dotintheparadox8 votes

They have shown a complete disregard to the actual lore fans as of late, with both new and old lore supporters.

They have shown a willingness to take chances, but the completely wrong ones.

They are no longer who I will listen to for any kind of lore, if this is how they handle this universe.

http://imgur.com/sp2cxgD No More.

Kikirino8 votes

Do you remember back several years ago they would have Lore updates in the form of a kind of newspaper in the game telling lore junkies what was happening in the world? I cannot remember what it was called because it was so long ago... Journal of something? Do you remember when there were little stories that went along with skin sales?

I love lore. I have asked, on more than one occasion, for lore to actually play a role in the game with faction specific queues. At this point, I don't want that because they keep changing lore. Not subtle, small changes either. Complete fucking overhauls. Remember how Trundle used to be a great troll that took on his tribes disease so his people didn't have to suffer? Now he is a mischievous, leader that beats people into submission. How.... how do they even come up with that? At least use the old lore as the foundation for the new lore. They claim using the old lore is too difficult. How about you get better at your job. That is a fucking cop out excuse and every lore junkie knows this. "We don't know how to take this old character and turn him into this new character so let's just remove the old one."

I have completely given up on lore... and I am someone that loves lore. I played WoW for 4 years and know more lore than my 10+ year playing friends. I hear Xerath and Sivir got new lore. Sadly, I wouldn't know because I abandoned League lore a long time ago... Just like Riot did.

CupcakeTrap5 votes

At this moment, it honestly feels like they're stringing us along with minor conversations and trinkets while the major work is being done behind the scenes, without our input, knowledge or support.

An excellent summation.

Gunpoint4 votes

Riot makes the lore, you read the lore, and you then appreciate the lore. If you fail to appreciate the lore, you aern't a fan of the lore. {{summoner:2}}

Legacy of Xion9 votes

Riot makes the lore, you read the lore, and you then appreciate the lore. If you fail to appreciate the lore, you aern't a fan of the lore. {{summoner:2}}

Or it makes you someone with better tastes or writing skills then a fourth grader.

Glescoron1 votes

Who's writing this lore right now? I am all for our inputs being heard by Riot, I hope they take it into account, but no one but Riot get to decide what goes into THEIR game. They clearly think this is the best direction and if they are that sure about it, it won't matter what we say and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are the artists, they can make the game into whatever they want, but the entitlement of this community is just ridiculous. I'm sorry to say it, but if this is what they want to do, then they'll do it. End of discussion. There's no secret conspiracy to pickpocket you in your sleep, nor will they shoot your dog. They aren't some cartoon villain like half these comments suggest. All they're trying to do is improve their game, whether they're right or not. I personally don't know if this will work out in the end, so I'm just waiting to see what happens, but it's no reason to stress. There are lots of MOBAs if Riot won't bend to your will.

Diahane3 votes

Who's writing this lore right now? I am all for our inputs being heard by Riot, I hope they take it into account, but no one but Riot get to decide what goes into THEIR game. They clearly think this is the best direction and if they are that sure about it, it won't matter what we say and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are the artists, they can make the game into whatever they want, but the entitlement of this community is just ridiculous. I'm sorry to say it, but if this is what they want to do, then they'll do it. End of discussion. There's no secret conspiracy to pickpocket you in your sleep, nor will they shoot your dog. They aren't some cartoon villain like half these comments suggest. All they're trying to do is improve their game, whether they're right or not. I personally don't know if this will work out in the end, so I'm just waiting to see what happens, but it's no reason to stress. There are lots of MOBAs if Riot won't bend to your will.

We all know that we do not own the game nor are the ones who should take decisions, but does it make any sense to you to put together the "we do this for the community" leitmotiv with their two-ways discussions and critique dodging behaviour? If they do all this for us, why wouldn't they hear the complaints? Why would they go their own way despite any possible plea of doing things differently?

Besides, if we're here criticizing and arguing instead of going elsewhere to spend our time (and money in my case) it's because we care, even though we feel mistreated. This alone should tell why they should listen and speak to us. I get no paycheck for discussing about LoL, but I do it nonetheless, whatever the day of the week: this is passion. And it's sad that our passion for their game gets trampled by their cold-hearted "we're so busy we can't post to uphold our company's standard in matters of community interaction", which is just an excuse to get news out when they're settled so that they can say that there is no turning back, so as to avoid any possible meaningful interaction.

Glescoron2 votes

Fair enough, I never suggested that they SHOULD go their own way. I think they should take our criticisms into consideration. I was just making the point that expecting them to cave on every decision because of pressure from the community (a community that is already pretty toxic at times) is not a very good attitude to take on this.

I haven't seen or heard of any two-ways discussions or critique dodging from riot, so you'll have to fill me in on that. :/

I really respect your passion, and I know where you're coming from. Passion's the only reason I try to keep people calm about this whole change. I haven't seen anything to indicate that Riot is trying to screw us all over and until I do, I'm going to assume they're trying their best to make this game better, not worse. I'll wait until after all this happens to form an opinion on it, but until then, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions.

Diahane3 votes

Fair enough, I never suggested that they SHOULD go their own way. I think they should take our criticisms into consideration. I was just making the point that expecting them to cave on every decision because of pressure from the community (a community that is already pretty toxic at times) is not a very good attitude to take on this.

I haven't seen or heard of any two-ways discussions or critique dodging from riot, so you'll have to fill me in on that. :/

I really respect your passion, and I know where you're coming from. Passion's the only reason I try to keep people calm about this whole change. I haven't seen anything to indicate that Riot is trying to screw us all over and until I do, I'm going to assume they're trying their best to make this game better, not worse. I'll wait until after all this happens to form an opinion on it, but until then, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions.

In this thread there are a few links to discussions on the boards Click. There should be nearly the whole debate it has been had around here after the retcon announcement. Honorable mentions are the topics in which we've got red posts and there question dodging ensued. I get that they cannot reply to every post, but they seem to never reply to the more critique ones with the more stringent (imho) arguments. In one of the topics we even had a Rioter trying to leverage a user's liking to Kayle to present a (imho) flawed reasoning in favor of the retcon, a reasoning which contradicted their very own lore (it was about champions being summoners' puppets before, which was not the case, as anyone who read the Mailbag of Justice section of the Journal of Justice could know). In general, whenever they appeared they just stated what they wanted to do and didn't engage a two-ways discussion about the retcon. They didn't reply to any of the arguments made to point out that the reasons they exposed in the dev blog were not felt as compelling by the community.

I know that they surely aim to what they think it's best, the problem being that I think that they aim to recalibrate the story to cater to the needs of a different and more vast audience, thus watering down the lore and its only original point (the IoW) until only a generic, teen-oriented and easily marketable fantasy world remains. That is to say, I fear that their perception of "best" is influenced by marketing considerations only and not the narrative drive required to craft the story of a videogame. They gave up on delivering the story of a videogame and switched to prepare the ground for some other media drawing from the same characters, thus devaluing the whole LoL as a game, downgrading it to a button-masher.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

thus watering down the lore and its only original point (the IoW) until only a generic, teen-oriented and easily marketable fantasy world remains.

now i somehow have a very frightening vision about Vlad getting retconned into a missunderstood teenager-vampire and starting some sort of romance with Vayne. The horror! The horror!

Glescoron2 votes

...I'm so sorry I doubted you all. XD That thread had some enlightening info, I'm really thankful you showed it to me. I'm not very active on the forums unless there's a big announcement, so I'm sorry I never caught onto this but now that I have...Jeez. :/

I have to add, however, that I genuinely liked the Shurima changes and I'm still not sure what to think about the whole giant retcon. It could work out, it might not, idk. Just so my standpoint's still clear.

What I DO have a problem with is the dodgy behavior and general obliviousness of the Narrative team. After reading through all those threads, I can see they need some serious redirection. There should be a lot more back and forth between the community and the devs.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'm glad I found out about it later rather than never.

thus watering down the lore and its only original point (the IoW) until only a generic, teen-oriented and easily marketable fantasy world remains.

now i somehow have a very frightening vision about Vlad getting retconned into a missunderstood teenager-vampire and starting some sort of romance with Vayne. The horror! The horror!

XD God, I hope not. I'm a Vlad main and I can tell you right now, she's just not his...TYPE Shaco ...BLOOD TYPEShaco Shaco Shaco LAUGH YOU SHEEP

Pobbes3 votes

I have a very strong sneaking suspicion of Lore actually getting a serious overhaul. This is all speculation, but the changes to the bios and the lore means that they are decoupling Lore from LoL. This may seem like a bad thing but it means something more important, Lore will have its own space other than a paragraph on the client. So, they will have rooms to tell more stories.

However, (here is where I turn the speculation train into a rocket ship) Riot recently posted for a R&D game developer position to work on games that are not League of Legends. This reminded me of something I thought of some time ago when the Lore team said, "League of Legends is not a good game to tell Lore stories." which made me think, "Well, then they should really just make new video games to tell Lore stories." Nothing fancy, but explore other genres with their now abundant Lore and characters with a dedicated IP with a fanbase. I think that is exactly what they are doing. I think Riot is expanding Valoran Lore beyond the bounds of League of Legends by making other games set in Valoran starring League. Games that can actually have a storyline. Games that could, possibly, allow the player to choose their own endings.

It's also possible I've gone mad and Riot isn't doing this at all. However, if they are Pobbes the Prophet 2014.

Dreamspitter1 votes

I have a very strong sneaking suspicion of Lore actually getting a serious overhaul. This is all speculation, but the changes to the bios and the lore means that they are decoupling Lore from LoL. This may seem like a bad thing but it means something more important, Lore will have its own space other than a paragraph on the client. So, they will have rooms to tell more stories.

However, (here is where I turn the speculation train into a rocket ship) Riot recently posted for a R&D game developer position to work on games that are not League of Legends. This reminded me of something I thought of some time ago when the Lore team said, "League of Legends is not a good game to tell Lore stories." which made me think, "Well, then they should really just make new video games to tell Lore stories." Nothing fancy, but explore other genres with their now abundant Lore and characters with a dedicated IP with a fanbase. I think that is exactly what they are doing. I think Riot is expanding Valoran Lore beyond the bounds of League of Legends by making other games set in Valoran starring League. Games that can actually have a storyline. Games that could, possibly, allow the player to choose their own endings.

It's also possible I've gone mad and Riot isn't doing this at all. However, if they are Pobbes the Prophet 2014.

Hmmmm.

I want a gorey Draven/Darius based actioner where they go on some kind of adventure, or maybe a game that follows them coming up to the present.

McGunnickle3 votes

I really dont get all the hate. I consider myself a big fan of the lore, totally understand why the league isnt lore anymore (cause its dumb), did enjoy the shurima stuff, aswell as the sion build up, am confident that the problems with the client will be fixed and find all the character specific lore changes better than what they were before.

and most importantly: i dont think i need to be involved in the creative process.

no movie, book, music or anything i enjoy has ever asked me what i think of the way its going. since when would the artist ask the audience what it wants? its nice if they do it and sometimes cool things could come from it, but seriously, at least 50% of people wanting to be "involved" are kids who have no idea of what a cool story is (in my opinion). thats why a creatve process shouldnt be a democratic one with lots of compromises.

tl,dr: much love to the lore team, i for one really like what they put out

Glescoron2 votes

Yes. Thank you for speaking sense. <3

Ark Angel HFB2 votes

Sadly it would seem the concept of the public beta is lost on the writers...

I mean why would you possible want to get feed back from the people whom you are making the product for?

You are smarter than those people right? You know better than them anyway, right?

Cookiehime1 votes

For all those who are still extremely bitter at the lore changes, there's always the possibility of finding other games.

Taking a small page from Buddhist philosophy: Desire and attachment is what causes suffering.

I've tried to deal with that and I think it works. No matter how much time, money or emotion you invested in the game and the lore, it does not matter in the end. You had your share of fun. I must say myself, I spent more time than money in the game. But I think it's best to let go of that attachment and seek other games or hobbies, especially if you're having a really hard time adjusting to the changes. By leaving those who enjoy the new lore and the new lore team alone and finding new games that provide you with stuff you like, everyone'll be happy in the end.

So, as a small solution that could alleviate all that turmoil, I found a new MOBA recently which I'd like to suggest to the bitter souls and ONLY to the bitter souls. It's called TOME: Immortal Arena. Imo, it lacks the depth and strategy that LoL has and you may not like it, but you could still give it a try. Do not mistake my suggestion as an attempt at free publicity. I only wish to get rid of all that bitterness on those boards. Just leave and everyone'll be happy.

A brief description of the lore: The premise is kinda similar to what LoL used to be (a bit less constraining imo) and you are called Harbingers in game. There are factions that represent elements (air, fire, water, etc.) which are totally not developed yet. I find the lore and characters to be extremely meh at the moment and I still don't understand most of it. But for those who wished to write about factions and stuff, working with a set premise (like CCT and co.), I'd suggest you take a look. Perhaps you could appeal to those guys and collaborate with them. Maybe even find a job as co-writer if you're willing to improve the established lore. I don't know if they're hiring or willing to hire but perhaps you should take your chances.

Again, I'm suggesting that only to the angry mob and people who are unwilling to accept the changes. No need to keep plaguing the boards with your anger and frustration. No more tormenting the writers and no more conflicts with those who hated the former lore.

I hope that works out for the best.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

kinda like searching for a new planet because this one is somewhat fucked up... it may be a solution, but I don´t see why you shouldn´t try and rescue this one first before you pack your things and just give up.

More from Story, Art, & Sound

Petition to keep the Bilgewater ARAM map in circulation
Story, Art, & Sound154 comments
1,161
votes
[SUPER IMPORTANT PETITION] Change Sion's ban quote...
Story, Art, & Sound54 comments
597
votes
Can we get an Honor animation?! 4 ways to insult an opponent but none to congratulate them.
Story, Art, & Sound202 comments
578
votes
Petition to make Rengar wiggle his butt when there's a pounce-able target near his bush
Story, Art, & Sound140 comments
476
votes
About this years harrowing...
Story, Art, & Sound357 comments
459
votes
RIOT, please postpone Blood Moon Diana and make it into a Legendary skin.
Story, Art, & Sound236 comments
423
votes

More by TerraRising

Thanks for the response, Jaredan, but I'm now completely destroyed as a fan of League.
Story, Art, & Sound166 comments
214
votes
It's been 1,800 days since Yorick's release (June 22, 2011). Since then...
Gameplay158 comments
188
votes
Well, it's /ff from Narrative (Champion Lore "updates" on website).
Story, Art, & Sound316 comments
88
votes
[Suggestion Box] What do WE want to talk about with Narrative?
Story, Art, & Sound125 comments
69
votes
Sweetheart Annie makes ten Annie skins. Seriously?
Concepts & Creations81 comments
69
votes
I met "that guy." <shudder>
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous59 comments
47
votes