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Riot taking yet another step back in character design

LunSeiSleidee··5 votes·2,049 views
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/390a2b569064fe3033eea835c77d01e3768ac6d8de9c568cffcd222de8948d44.png

What happened to you this year, Riot? Please tell me.

What happened?

What happened to characters like Tahm Kench, Taliyah, Illaoi, Ekko?

Are you back to same-faced, physically identical, pretty anime characters? Because if I told someone who doesn't know the game that they girl on the left and that on the right are the same person, they'd believe me. And they'd believe me if I told them the artist on the right got sued for tracing the drawing on the left.

After seeing Evelynn's severe case of sameface (as pictured in the image here), I am very very veeery worried about Swain's redesign.

You know what, Riot? I changed my mind. I don't want a Swain visual update.

PSA: hey you. Yes, you reading this. If you comment that Evelynn is supposed to be a hot seductress, you completely missed the theme of this thread so shoo. (Hint: hot seductress and samefaced-anime-girl-indistinguishable-from-the-other-hot-seductress are NOT the same thing.)

44 Comments

Jeddy01713 votes

Are you back to same-faced, physically identical, pretty anime characters?

So are we really just choosing to ignore Ornn, Urgot, Galio & Warwick here? It sure do feels like there's some cherry picking going on here.

Beyond Legends10 votes

What happened is that some of you can't control your ego. Not every fucking things needs to be specifically pander to you.

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Can I tell you something?

When drawing a face, the less lifelike detail you have, the harder it is to distinguish faces. You can have two people irl with similar yet distinguishable faces due to flaws in the skin, bone structure of the face, etc.

But depending on the art style you go with, you aren't going to be drawing these imperfections. Eventually you will have similar faces if you don't put in wildly differing facial structure changes or designs on the face or something.

Just food for thought.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

That's true.

However there is also a thing called "same face syndrome" usually used as a mark of amateur artists.

Generally if the eyes, nose, and mouth are interchangeable, then the artist needs to work on his or her design more. You can see this a lot on Deviant Art, but it also slips through occasionally in professional work. Liefeld being one of the biggest offenders.

Compare and contrast with the works of Bruce Timm in the old DCAU cartoons where despite mostly using a similar frame each character had their own distinct facial design.

Or if you're more of an anime guy. Look at My Hero Academia where the artist goes to great lengths to distinguish character faces.

Now as to OP, and his argument for these specific two being too similar design. I would personally say, 1) if these two characters are drawn by the same artist (which I'm not even certain of) yeah he or she may want to invest in learning how to get distinguishing features in their art style. But 2) it might just be a mistake, shit like that happens. Even the previously praised Timm has some habits he falls back on for one off characters. Can't really know unless you look through a lot of an artists illustrations to draw comparisons. I'd hardly call it the end of creativity, just that they might want to work a little harder to avoid these similarities in the future.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

The fun fact is that they very openly said they knew all the female characters they make have the same face and promised they would not do that anymore.

And for a while, they did so.

Now..... It feels as if Riot completely changed!!

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I am in fact not an anime person, nor do I draw people a lot, so I didn't know these things.

Thanks for the insight

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Funny thing, I'm also not an anime person and haven't drawn anything since I took that annoying sketching class as an undergrad for an easy credit.

I just randomly pick up useless knowledge about things for some reason.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Did you happen to pick up knowledge on how long the Universe is?

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Most recent number I remember reading said it was about 90-something billion light years across.

ModWulf Helhammer5 votes

That's teaser art. Look at Elise's splash arts

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

I hold a little bit of hope.

I'm fine with her being sexy and hot because it's been a while, and besides, it's what Evelynn is.

But THAT?

After this, and the two anime lovers Xayah-Rakan, and the edgy anime teen Kayn, and the Sailor Moon ripoffs, I am very worried.

ModWulf Helhammer8 votes

two anime lovers Xayah-Rakan, and the edgy anime teen Kayn

What?

the Sailor Moon ripoffs

Yeah. They were kinda supposed to be. It's the entire premise of the Star Guardian line: magical girls (and now one guy)

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

There's "funny reference". It was that with the original Lux skin. There's "the skin is popular, let's make more funny references.... almost like we're making a majokko anime for real". It was like that in the period of the Jinx skin. Then, there's "majokko anime alternate universe!! __ ".... which is what the Star Guardians are now. No longer a reference, or a joke, or a shoutout. Just a plain ripoff.

Karn Bishop2 votes

Dude we get it you hate japan and wish to target all of Asia with a tactical nuke because of it, does not mean we have to agree with you or even entertain your ideas.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6QJxF5i9,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-22T04:25:24.703+0000)

Dude we get it you hate japan and wish to target all of Asia with a tactical nuke because of it, does not mean we have to agree with you or even entertain your ideas.

Did you dedicate years of your life, a lot of your time and a lot of your money to intensively study Japanese language and culture?

No, eh?

Then please shut up. I love Japan much more than you will ever do. This is why I HATE, hate weeaboos. Their idea of Japan is kawaii animu characters.

midnight oil242 votes

There are people who can like anime characters but like other parts of Japan. I like anime but also like things about japan like Yokai and the role they play in the folklore, or some of the places such as Shibuya. I also see negative aspects, such as the society not being super welcoming to outsiders. Not everyone sees japan as just the land of anime, but you act like everyone who isn't you is a dirty weeaboo.

It's not a healthy attitude to look down on others so much, frankly.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

At some point you will come to terms with the fact that anime exists in Japanese culture.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

At some point you will come to terms with the fact that weeaboos and Japanese culture have nothing in common.

And do you really think everyone in Japan loves anime?

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Uhh no. I never said anything like that. But thanks for assuming.

Besides the obvious fact that you don't know how to argue without trying to attack the other person, I am fully aware on what a weeabo is.

If japanese culture is a superhero, a weeb is equivalent to that one nerdy guy that lives in a different country that tries his darndest to be just like them.

They will talk like them, dress like them, etc.

Basically trying so hard to emulate a few facets. The "fun" aspects.

Kynin5 votes

Isn't it a bit early to complain about design direction? You have only seen a 14 second teaser. No gameplay. No splasharts. No abilities.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

{quoted}

Isn't it a bit early to complain about design direction? You have only seen a 14 second teaser. No gameplay. No splasharts. No abilities.

After this. After Xayah. After Rakan. Worst of all, after Kayn.

After all that, I don't doubt this splash art is exactly what we will get in the game.

DrCyanide5 votes

Just like the teaser showing Shen's sword ended up being for a Janna skin?

Teasers aren't everything.

Kynin2 votes

It won't be. Splash arts have the primary focus on the champion. Not a.... victim of said champion. Eve is a succubus. She is supposed to be sexy. I can tell the difference between a spider and a succubus.

I don't understand what Xayah and Rakan have to do with this, I thought they were unique and a great addition. Kayn is supposed to be edgy. Some people like that fantasy. Others want to play as a demonic succubus.

Rebonack3 votes

{quoted}

It won't be. Splash arts have the primary focus on the champion. Not a.... victim of said champion. Eve is a succubus. She is supposed to be sexy. I can tell the difference between a spider and a succubus.

A succubus isn't sexy. It's a hideous hag that invades a dude's sleep to cause a wet dream so they collect the jizz to make demon-babies.

What you're thinking of is a completely different sort of creature more or less made up by D&D back in the 70's. A sex demon. A fuccubus, if you will.

Kynin2 votes

A succubus is a demon who uses sex appeal to lure foolish men to their deaths. I have no idea where you got that from. A succubus has to be sexy to lure men to their demise.

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter

HalfTangible3 votes

Leaving aside the numerous other champions that Riot has released, YES! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING! Going back to an older design!

Evelynn's design already existed, it needed updating. That's why she's getting a rework in the first place. Talking about how Evelynn is Riot "going back" completely misses the point. What do you think a VGU is?

The last time they radically changed a character's design, we got Galio, easily one of the most controversial reworks (see any given thread on how much his team that also worked on Evelynn "sucks")

PSA: hey you. Yes, you reading this. If you comment that Evelynn is supposed to be a hot seductress, you completely missed the theme of this thread so shoo.

Pointing out the problem with your own argument DOESN'T MAKE IT GO AWAY.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

{quoted}

Pointing out the problem with your own argument DOESN'T MAKE IT GO AWAY.

You know, that's why I'm getting downvotes.

Because apparently some people here assume sexy woman = anime girl with cliché face.

I'm guessing a lot of people here would think an actual hot sexy woman in real life would be ugly?

Evelynn should be sexy and attractive. Evelynn should not be a samefaced anime girl looking IDENTICAL to Elise.

Yeah, the very fact I have to point it out speaks volumes about the people playing this game.

HalfTangible3 votes

No. You're getting downvotes because you went about communicating your idea in the most hostile way you could've without screaming that Riot is "run by dirty n-words" or something.

You're also guilty of cherry-picking to find not only the two characters (well, one character who happened to match the one you're complaining about) who would have a similar design but specifically went for the example where they both take the same pose and said that this mean they were equal. Compare that still image to Elise's current artwork (since presumably this is Eve's base skin) and you get a very different story.

Yeah, the very fact I have to point it out speaks volumes about the people playing this game.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

It really doesn't say anything about the League fandom that you got hostile responses when you told anyone with that argument to fuck off. You're just being a self-absorbed asshat.

You brought up a potential counter-argument ahead of time and told the hypothetical person presenting it to go away without presenting a counter-argument. Yes, it is reasonable to assume two characters with the same seductress idea drawn in the same universe would have similar designs and would be posed in similar ways at least once. Especially for a game like league, where most of the characters are closer to cartoony than realistic.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

So, you still do not understand the difference between "two sexy seductresses" and "two identical twins".

HalfTangible2 votes

You're not even reading my posts anymore.

I'm done here.

Iota Theta1 votes

She doesn’t actually look identical to Elise on that teaser. Why? Because you showed the teaser for Victorious Elise. Compare the base splashes and see if the look similar

Karn Bishop3 votes

Well considering that most iconic succubi designs come from japan how and why is this an issue?

I'd be horrified if they took an American, European, or Sjws idea of a succubi, i mean look at mass effect Andromeda they made 2 of those mistakes and look at what happened there, though likely the third was the main problem in that case.

[sg-lux-2]

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

Can you get any more desperately weeaboo than this? I bet you are the guy who thinks Japanese girls are superiore to other girls, because they are cute and naive and submissive. I bet you are the guy for which if a woman is not designed to be fap material, she is a SJW, man-hating design. I bet you are the guy who finds a girl ugly unless it is a manga character.

Penyu3 votes

Are you just going to keep making threads complaining about League but just ramble on about how much you hate anime?

Mystery Ghost2 votes

Why are you even using these forums anymore? At this point you are just a sad loser with personal psychological struggle on hating anime and trying to lie to yourself that its bad while its from the most successful things that have ever existed with a huge impact in the gaming world and its the primary reason of League's artistic attraction. If you don't like it go play a game with ugly outdated characters and leave this place alone because its pretty clear that noone wants you here.

LunSeiSleidee2 votes

Hey buddy: punctuation. Learn to use it. Reading your post felt like you were shouting words one after another while lacking your breath. Then I may address the points you are attempting to make, as empty as they may be.

JooshBox1 votes

The two images are similar but I think it's a little too early to cry foul on Riot. Evelynn sex appeal is a big part of her character, similar to Ahri and Elise . They differ in their personalities and appearances, however. And if the pose is something that bothers you Shadow Evelynn already has that specific pose.

LunSeiSleidee2 votes

What does sex appeal have to do with anything?

I'm talking horrible design here.

Same-face to the point one character is virtually indistinguishable from another. In the same game which had characters like Ekko or Taliyah.

JooshBox2 votes

{quoted}

What does sex appeal have to do with anything?

I'm talking horrible design here.

Same-face to the point one character is virtually indistinguishable from another. In the same game which had characters like Ekko or Taliyah.

Virtually indistinguishable is a bit of a stretch, they make the same seductive pose with their pointed fingers to their lips, (a common anime trope for sure but also just a common feminine pose in general). They both have pointed fangs Elise Elise's fit since she's a spider, not sure what direction the team went with Evelynn Evelynn but fangs have always been prominent in her splash arts. The noses are similar shapes sure, and they have similar headgear/hair framing. Elise's being her Victorious crown, and Evelynn's hair(?) being framed around her face in a similar way. Although I'd point out that she has what appears to be ghostly pink flames coming from the top of her head. (I could be wrong maybe that is just her hair). This Evelynn teaser is a bit paler than I expected, and not nearly as blue but the other teaser that appeared a month ago shows her blue leg shooting out a pink hate spike. I don't think either of the pictures looks particularly anime-esque but that's just my opinion and honestly, we should at least wait for the splash and model before raising out pitchforks.

Karn Bishop1 votes

You shouldn't argue with him, there is a reason they cropped both images to only show the face which is to create proof from nothing, if he were objective about it he would have posted the full versions of each of those things instead of just the faces.

Cavemantero1 votes

{quoted}

What does sex appeal have to do with anything?

I'm talking horrible design here.

Same-face to the point one character is virtually indistinguishable from another. In the same game which had characters like Ekko or Taliyah.

He's right. This is a horrible design. The succubus look isn't Evelynn. Evelynn is actualyl unique to this game and they decided to replace her with a new champ rather than rework her. It is atrocious design as far as a rework is concerned. There's no excuse for riot doing this. I don't even play Eve...but after the stupid Galio champion replacement I figured they would've learned their lesson...nope!

JarPoop IV1 votes

Let's just wait for the pbe release for more info before we jump all over EVE LOOKS LIKE ELISE!

If it really does end up that way even interms of silhouette, I'm pretty sure almost everyone would agree.

Rosemarie1 votes

You also realize the same basic layout and pose are recycled for splash art, simply just so you get a good look at the actual character? Most assassins are lunging forward in a one point perspective style, and most mages are seen either chest out and about to use magic or are lunged forward as well about to use magic. Also, finger to lip is a common way to make a character looks seductive. Similar face shapes are an actual thing that exists. did you know IRL everyone has a certain number of people that look strikingly similar/twinlike to them? Also the same artist may have been hired to do both portraits, and this is just their style. Literally google any Paul Kwon (Zeronis) concept art and you will see he draws pretty much the same build and face style for league women. Because in game at a top down view when the 3D models are small you can't see that detail. Yes it's similar but it's a formula that works to entice, its a pretty face shape, and even though I don't necessarily agree with sex being what sells, Evelynn is a sexy character more so than Elise, but Elise has to be enticing enough due to her lore. So please don't bash the Design team when they are just using formulas and techniques that WORK to raise a reaction from the community. Besides like a few others have said it's just teaser art, there's so much room for change between now and PBE release.

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