Assuming 5 VGUs per year, the Tier 1 champions won't be knocked out until 2020

Valor Bot·Jul 19, 2017·55 votes·12,501 views

Tier 1 candidates (keep in mind this is an ever-changing list and could be different today):

Riot, I think I speak for a lot of us when I say we want more VGUs. Obviously, quality comes before quantity -- and I'd prefer if you guys took your time to get these reworks right instead of rushing them out the door -- but I feel like there are so many champions in the game in need of large-scale work that it's going to be forever before we actually see them realized to their full potential. Heck, this list doesn't even include other problem champions like Jax, Singed or Malphite.

Pretty please?

[zombie-nunu-tears]

139 Comments

RiotReav3Jul 20, 201789 votes

Sweet. That will be enough time to get a whole new list of Tier 1 champs!

Malicious MetalJul 20, 201769 votes

ಠ_ಠ

I Stealth IJul 20, 201713 votes

You know, I just realised that "ಠ" is a letter from my language, Kannada.........and is pronounced 'tha'

all i think about when I see ಠ_ಠ now is tha-underscore-tha

Sraeg2013Jul 20, 201716 votes

It just turned from a "look of disapproval" to a "sarcastic laugh".

Tha tha.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ac327a15220abb956cfc2ddcda6a4126/tenor.gif

SSJTribeJul 20, 20172 votes

kind of reminds me how I can't see owo or 0w0 as a face. I always read "oh-woah" until I realize that person was trying to make an embarrassed face.

CowseedJul 20, 20172 votes

You're from Canada?

I Stealth IJul 20, 20173 votes

Kannada is one of the Indian languages

RengoooJul 20, 201725 votes

I mean... it's ok deflecting it with humor and all, but the op has a very good point.

SociopathFriendJul 20, 201731 votes

Yeah but there's no right answer, so you get humor.

XIII VanitasJul 20, 20173 votes

There is one, though: only 1 new champion release every 2 VGUs (or 2 new champion releases every 3 VGUs), until they're done with the worst offenders Mordekaiser Nunu DrMundo Pantheon Fiddlesticks Shaco Nocturne Irelia

cissco45Jul 20, 20171 votes

how many employees do they have to do only 5 a year ???

Mistress MadokaJul 20, 20178 votes

You're saying this as if it's a Quick and easy thing to do

TimX24968BJul 20, 20171 votes

Nocturne is fine idk whats wrong with him

XIII VanitasJul 20, 20173 votes

1- His outdated model and visuals effects 2- His one-dimensional gameplay

AuraCreedJul 20, 20173 votes

It might sound joking but I thought it was serious because that's probably whats going to happen. You get VGUs done for all these champs and there's going to be more champs in those spots once they're vacant. As the standard of quality increases there will always be a champion that needs to be pushed up from the back, least that's how I see it.

RiotReav3Jul 20, 201713 votes

The real answer is that we don't feel like we HAVE to get through every champion on the list.

The list is constantly growing and evolving and with the size of our cast there will always be champions that need work. I mean it was only just recently that Fiddlesticks got into the Tier 1 list and we were just discussing Corki yesterday and he is getting pretty close to a Tier 1 candidate as well.

If we did get through all the Tier 1's then the Tier 2 would just be new Tier 1's.

What we do care about is what is the right cadence of champion content to deliver to players. Right now we feel like releasing champions every 2 weeks is way to much. We feel like having big content releases, be it a VGU, a new Champ or a big seasonal update feels right at a monthly cadence. Obviously we won't always hit that perfectly but having content drops roughly every month feels right to us, at least currently. We always re-evaluate this of course and there will always be reason we don't release every month (Xayah & Rakan being a duo champion caused us to skip a Feb release and the scope of Kayns 3 forms made him take a bit longer then usually as well, skipping June.) Worlds being another thing that we may delay releases during.

With that being said we then look at what out players want. Currently their are many players that want new champs as well as VGUs. The players on these boards are usually super hard core players invested in the lore that have been playing LoL for a long time. We know that those are the players that generally are more excited about VGUs. The sentiment on these boards doesn't necessarily represent the sentiment of all our players.

With both of those facts our strategy is more about what ratio of VGUs and New Champions we want to release that will add the most player value. Our goal isn't driven by getting through our Tier 1 list as fast as possible. So looking at what our players want we feel moving to more of a 50/50 cadence of VGUs and New Champs makes the most sense right now. We will continue to evaluate this ratio though and adjust accordingly over time.

TormentulaJul 20, 20173 votes

My question is what exactly qualifies a champion for tier 1 over tier 2? As you said the list is constantly changing but what factors exactly shift champions through tiers?

Ex. what on paper makes Chogath more of a priority than Nocturne Zilean Skarner despite all this work he's been receiving almost every patch that they haven't? I know why cho is in here and I know he needs it just as much if not more then some of these but it would be nice to hear context on "why this and not that" in general. After all, whats the point of having a tier 1 list if stuff is going to shift all over the place and tier 2 could potentially be worked on anyway, at that point you're just playing hat of cards and picking a champion from the pool of tier 1 and 2.

RiotReav3Jul 20, 20179 votes

The tiers aren't really set in stone tbh. In retrospect I wish I never really framed our VGU priorities as tiers. At the time I was just responding to a comment on the boards asking which Champions where high priority and I threw out a list.

Internally we don't separate the VGU candidates by Tiers. When I say Tier 1's I'm more referring to the champions that we feel are currently high priorities and are in the discussion to get a VGU when we start ideating on our next VGU.

The way it works internally is that we have all the champions in the game on a list. We then assign a number for different categories of the champion. These categories are Art, Design, Theme, Highly Requested & Potential of Theme. For design, art & theme we assign each a number based on where we feel they are currently at. The highly requested is a number based on how highly requested the champion is by players in our surveys we send out. The potential of theme is based on our own internal assessment as well as how popular a champion once was. Warwick, for example, was very high on the "Potential of Theme" category as he was once a very popular champion but became much less popular as time went on, basically the category is for champions that we think have a theme that resonate very strongly with players but it isn't currently being executed well. Evelynn, Irelia or Akali would be other examples of champions with very high "Potential of Theme" scores.

Anyways, we then have a column that adds all of these scores up to see what Champion has the overall highest value to update. All the champions with very high scores end up high priority and are on a list we look at when starting on new VGUs. We constantly update these scores though so champions can go up or down in priority over time.

So there are many reasons a champion can be on the list. A Champion like Irelia, for example, could have a similar score as Nunu as She would score very high in "Potential of Theme" where as Nunu would score similarly high in other areas, like theme or requested by players.

MonotachiJul 21, 20171 votes

So a higher score means they need the most work? I.e. for design - I assume this is about gameplay health, a higher number means they don't have a healthy pattern? For art, a higher number means they have ugly animations that don't fit the theme?

RiotReav3Jul 21, 20172 votes

For Art/Design/Theme categories a higher score means they need more work or are in a worst state. For Player Request a higher score means they are highly requested, and for Potential of Theme a higher score represents how much potential the theme has if reworked.

Linna ExcelJul 21, 20173 votes

Reav3, how much leeway do the individual teams have in determining which champ they rework?

Let's say both Irelia and Akali are the highest numbers but the next available team has an idea for a 3rd champ (nunu?) they think will work while someone just starting a different project wants to tackle Akali. Would Nunu end up next while Akali waited for the team who wanted to work on her?

Likewise, what happens when you've got a high priority champ but no one really wants to tackle them, assuming they've all got good reasons not to?

RiotReav3Jul 21, 20174 votes

Let's say both Irelia and Akali are the highest numbers but the next available team has an idea for a 3rd champ (nunu?) they think will work while someone just starting a different project wants to tackle Akali. Would Nunu end up next while Akali waited for the team who wanted to work on her?

Multiple teams don't go into ideation at the same time so we usually don't run into that problem.

Basically when a team is ready to go into ideation we look at the list of high priority champions and then narrow it down to a 3-4 from there. Usually we narrow it down based on what role/position we did last, what tone, or what factions we did last. We also look at which champions will fit well into the overall roadmap between new and VGUs. We then start early discovery on some possible directions and then after a period of time we go with the strongest direction we have.

Likewise, what happens when you've got a high priority champ but no one really wants to tackle them, assuming they've all got good reasons not to?

Well then the Champion could wait until we do have a exciting idea. Urgot for example was very high priority for a very long time but we didn't have anything super solid until late last year during a ideation period. The last thing we want to do is force a champion through production with a weak idea even if it is a very high priority champion. That would most likely not end up great for the Champion in the end.

ShadowParkerJul 21, 20171 votes

What was Urgot highest in out of the categories?

RiotReav3Jul 21, 20173 votes

Urgot was the highest scoring champion in gameplay, art and the highest player requested champion as well. His theme was fairly strong which is why we maintained it with the VGU though.

Chromatic EagleJul 21, 20171 votes

What about Swain?

RiotReav3Jul 21, 20173 votes

Swain is pretty high on player requested (Not the top or anything but regularly in the top 10). His gameplay and art scores are very high. His theme as the ruler of Noxus is pretty strong though so his current theme rating are pretty low. His overall impact on Runeterra as the leader of Noxus makes the potential of his Theme score pretty high though. This all adds up to a high priority champion.

ZerenzaJul 21, 20172 votes

I honestly think that there should be more VGU's than new champions per year, i like that i can expect a new champion or VGU ever month or two, but i don't like when a VGU is announced and it takes 6 months for them to come to us(IE: I hate that Evelynn isn't coming out until after worlds. Cause I LOVE HER SO MUCH! lol). That's my personal opinion, and also, in my opinion, it's easier to build a champion from a pre-determined concept then from scratch. Also, i personally liked the big scale Class Update's, the hatred is, noted in some cases(such as complaints about Malzahar and Zyra since the Mage Update, or Rengar in the Assassin Update, Mordekaiser ect.). I'v really liked the mini-updates lately as well, such as with Kindred. But, i feel like instead of making the cast of character's even larger, fixing and fine tuning the current cast would be better overall. Once the current cast of character's is up to your new standards(you probably couldn't release Tryndamere in the game today.), it would be good to continue to fill up the holes in the lore by adding new cast and making some character's that were heavily prevalent in other lore become their own champions(I want kassadins daughter to come back from the void as a badass female void spawn, please lol).

Anyway, that's my thought on the subject, i'v really liked the thought put into Champion updates lately and i'm really REALLY excited to see what the teams pumpout in the future, most notably, Evelynn(i literally can't wait.).

Valor BotJul 20, 20172 votes

I mean it was only just recently that Fiddlesticks got into the Tier 1 list and we were just discussing Corki yesterday and he is getting pretty close to a Tier 1 candidate as well.

Corki hype.

Thanks for the response Reav3; I hope you know the reason I made this post was not to devalue your work or the content put out by ChampUp, but more to add to the voices of those players who love and really can't contain their excitement for more VGUs (and worry we won't be around to see our favorite champs get their VGUs). Personally I do feel like VGUs should take priority over new champs--at least until the super dire ones are out of the way like Nunu, but I also understand that new champions are just as important to the game, and that there will always be champions in need of a VGU.

HowPlayGAEMJul 20, 20175 votes

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a shitty misguided approach that makes the entire product of "League of Legends" suffer in favor of short term ADHD gain.

Players want new champs. They spend money and the chinese overlords are pleased with the profits. I completely understand. The ~~spice~~ RP must flow.

But you know what, no matter how many fidget spinning children you appease with the totally radical new champ, that won't magically make Morgana stop looking like a repugnant outdated pile of festering rancid trash from 2009, completely out of place in the increasingly improved game in 2017.

In recent years, League has began improving from its stagnant state, from the client, to the lore, to the champ design, champ VO, etc. The quality bar has been raised on all fronts. And now you're telling me that "eyy we don't need to update shit lol gotta make dem new chimps boi"

No sir, I disagree completely. Until League's oldest and most problematic champs are brought up to the standards of the rest of the game, I'm of the opinion that VGU's should be prioritized.

Chromatic EagleJul 20, 20176 votes

They're still updating old champs, they're just balancing it with making new ones. Some of the new champs, like Jhin, end up fleshing out older champs like Zed and Shen anyway. Even from gameplay, some new champs influence the kits of older ones.

DrCyanideJul 20, 20174 votes

I think the point was that some champions stick out like a sore thumb when you look at them, even if their gameplay doesn't.

Amumu and Veigar 's model and waddle walk, Morgana 's rigid dress, Mordekaiser Blitzcrank and DrMundo 's massive pizza feet, Nunu in general.

Those champions that don't look like they belong in the same game as Azir Lucian Braum Tristana Leona . You can debate how much their kits need work or not, but the point remains that visually they're so far behind they look like they belong.

Chromatic EagleJul 20, 20172 votes

My point is that it takes time to update these champions. I'm worried that with too many teams, with some of them inexperienced at that, the quality of the VGUs will drop. It's like with the class updates, or when Riot released champions every two weeks. More content, but some of it wasn't good.

Shadowkirby14Jul 21, 20171 votes

Think you can elaborate on Fiddlesticks' major problems as well as any conceptual plans for his VGU? Will it be more of a modernization or will he be a full relaunch, as in built completely from scratch? What abilities will be staying and what will have to go? How much room does Fiddlesticks have for theme potential? Will he be a demon like everyone else was saying or will he be a bit more than that?

RiotReav3Jul 21, 20173 votes

Who knows, we haven't started on Fiddle yet :)

Chromatic EagleJul 21, 20172 votes

Would you say that a Mordekaiser vgu will be easy or hard since he already has a lore direction?

AzteryzJul 20, 20176 votes

Jax XinZhao Malphite Nocturne Olaf Shyvana Teemo Udyr and Ryze come to mind

TimX24968BJul 20, 20173 votes

I feel like nocturne is actually just fine. VU, definitely. GU, no. he can clear really well and gank really well, and the last thing i want is for him to be reworked into someone that can only do one or the other.

EDIT: RIP bandwagon downvotes.

DwarvenGiantJul 20, 201710 votes

Think about it like this- Clearing and ganking well could just be a matter of numbers.

A champion could have really strong abilities that support jungling and ganking but that doesn't necessarily mean he's in a good spot design-wise- Their mechanics could be overloaded, one-sided, not skillful or lacking.

Nocturne's got a ton of potential to be a scary living nightmare, but he doesn't entirely live up to it- His ult is one of the most iconic abilities in the game, in my opinion, but it's the only thing that helps him live up to its theme.

His E is an interesting mechanic and his Q is cool as a representation of the "darkness" theme, but I feel like there's something missing and those two could be pushed much further to express the darkness/nightmare feel.

His W, while a rather skillful tool, doesn't really fit his character much- It might as well have been on any other champion and it would've work the same- if not better- thematically.

-_-

I'll tell you one thing- When I first started playing this game, 6 years ago, I stumbled upon an enemy Nocturne in a match for the first time (sometime in my first month of playing) and I had no idea what he does. Fast forward into the game, I'm in bot lane, everything's normal, when suddenly the screen goes dark with the immediate sound of many booming thunders. It scared the shit out of me and I jumped out of my chair (and that was before he even dashed!).

Point is, I want every Nocturne ability to play a little psychological game on the player- It could be done through a combination of frightening visuals & sounds and mechanics that would feature build-ups that give the feel of echoes growing closer and faster with every second or unnerving suspense.

LùmenJul 20, 20174 votes

https://youtu.be/tEnsqpThaFg?t=1m1s

Nocturne from A Twist of Fate is the true fantasy of this champ. He looks perfect there. He just needs new animations but his lore and VO are also problematic

TimX24968BJul 20, 20173 votes

I would agree his animations, model, and VO and probably lore (whats lore? /s) could use an update, but i want him to keep the ability to clear just as well as he can gank.

ChaosThiefJul 20, 20173 votes

Ryze? Again?

Automated RivenJul 20, 201720 votes

Ya it's pretty much a yearly thing now.

Votable JesterJul 20, 201711 votes

They should make it an in-game holiday.

Sraeg2013Jul 20, 20179 votes

We'll call it... the Ryzing.

Glory ln DeathJul 20, 201710 votes

Doombots: The Ryzing!

Basically Doombots, but your enemies are all just the different iterations of Ryze. It gets more difficult every year as more and more Ryzes get added, until it's eventually a completely unwinnable 5v100.

Sraeg2013Jul 20, 20173 votes

So we'll only be able to win for the next 2 years?

ChaosThiefJul 20, 20174 votes

What I want to see is a game mode where you play only ryze.

Your team picks each of the 5 different reworks.

Linna ExcelJul 20, 201729 votes

You should make that 2021 because you forgot these five VGUs:

Ryze Ryze Ryze Ryze and... Ryze