In reasoning and honest opinion, who do you feel would win the war for the Freljord?

Forhonor321··13 votes·2,051 views

This is something that's been on my mind for quite some time. The whole concept of the war of the three sisters and/or the war of the three queens (whatever it's really called) has really just been on my mind as to who would actually win the war. Now I'm not going to post my theory on who just yet since I still have some work around the house to do (mostly helping my parents) but I want to know what you're thoughts are on the subject.

Who do you feel would win? Why do you feel that way? What would be your evidence? What are Ashe's/Sej's/Liss' strengths and weaknesses to make you come to this decision? Don't be afraid to go into lots of detail why. I encourage it actually.

Edit: Wow this got a lot more popular than I thought. Well, since the day is pretty much over I can now post my thoughts and opinions on the topic.

So to start out with my opinion: Ashe. Oooohhhh...I hate her so much, mostly due to how her tribe proclaims her as Queen and then she thinks the Freljord should follow under one ruler in a nation-wide peace while also becoming one single tribe in her childhood dream she has. But how do her forces and faction far to the others? Well, according to the lore (which is really dated for today's standards) her tribe, the Avarosan, are the largest in the Freljord currently. On top of this she has allies with Tryndamere, Anivia, Gragas, Braum and Nunu, making her side the largest with allies (champion-wise).

Now while she does have many allies to her I don't necessarily think they're always going to be useful. Tryndamere is really only there because of a diplomatic marriage and not out of love, so things could actually be tense between the two, Gragas if I remember correctly still wonders around for supplies for his alcohol and may or may not be present most of the time, Anivia we don't really see lots of mention of her being around Ashe too often, Braum is... somewhere and folklore most of the time, and Nunu is well Nunu. He's just a kid on a Yeti. How much help can we expect from him if we don't get a lot of details on what a Yeti is capable of against an army?

On top of this I feel Ashe is somewhat like Daenerys from GoT when she was trying to free the slave cities under her rule. While she is having good intensions to try and fix this and bring peace to this world, there are those that won't see eye to eye with her, more specifially other tribes that don't see her worthy as their queen or even don't want a queen or be united. Maybe some tribes that rally to her hate each other so much that they can't stand each other and there are conflicts, violent ones more likely.

And unlike Daenerys I don't feel like Ashe has that presence she has. Daenerys, while she is trying to prove she's more peaceful than her father and brother, still had that presence and authority feel to her that makes you know that she's in charge due to her bloodline and will even go into battle for her dream. With Ashe on the other hand (many will argue against me) I've never felt she had that presence. She only became queen for her tribe because she found a bow. That doesn't make her the ruler of the entire god damn frozen hellhole they live in! And yes, she will go into battle but I still don't get that feel like she's the queen of the Freljord, just her tribe. I've also never took her for a military type. Diplomatic maybe, but no where near a general or any kind of military.

One final thing, her tribe is mostly peaceful and she makes many promises to keep up to. While I can imagine that even peaceful people can be rugged and have some kind of military, I just don't see them work that great since most of them are farmers and/or from different tribes, which I've mentioned above may or may not hate each other still. And the promises I feel are the only thing that are keeping these tribes together, seeing if she can keep them up. Problem with this is if she does fail, this will cause the tribes to see weakness and lies from her and possibly make them doubt her, if not leave or rebel. In short, her greatest strength is also her greatest weakness.


Now lets move to Lissandra. She wants the watchers to return in order for more power and bring forth an ice age on the world for their glory. Simple enough. (also going to try and keep these a bit shorter now if I can)

So what does she have? Well currently she has Trundle and the trolls on her side, which might not seem much but think about it. They're trolls! Have you played or played against Trundle? He's vicious! On top of this, they're undoubtedly bigger than humans, wielding bigger weapons, regeneration most likely, they're basically monstrous infantry! I don't doubt a second that these guys could prove a challenge on the front lines if not cause fear in ranks.

Second is Lissandra has magic. Powerful magic. She can manipulate ice, freeze people, teleport through it, and that's just according to game. She most likely has far more power over it then we might expect, not like move glacier 60 mph, but a fair amount like maybe freezing an army solid or projecting large spikes from the ground for impalements.

Third is she does technically have control over the Frostguard due to her disguise, and if I recall still is an ally of Ashe in this form (or did she betray her already?). She could technically try to manipulate teh Frostguard into thinking Ashe had one of their tribesmen killed and rebel against her or, like I said, find out her promises and damage them or even just somehow brainwash the Frostguard into serving her true Ice Queen form eventually and go all out against Ashe.

Is she likely to succeed? Well, maybe if she really hurt Ashe in some way but as of now, not likely.

And that finally brings us to out last contestant and who I feel would win: Sejuani. Why? Because I feel they're the exact embodiment of what the Freljord is. They're harsh, unforgiving, tough, just like how the Freljord is being a desolate Tundra/ Arctic zone. Her and her tribe just remind me of the Norsca, who recently got released for Total War: Warhammer, mostly because of a quote said during the trailer "This harsh land breeds the savage and we revel in it." She was born in this environment. You have to be strong on your own if you want to survive out here. Hunt or take whatever you need to survive, no weakness, be brave while dying, etc. All of these are her ideals as to what the Freljord makes out of the men that live here and people like Ashe are what Sejuani despise because it goes against the natural law of the region.

Moving foward, she has poweful allies. Olaf is a very strong contender being a man that seemingly can't die on the brink of death against so many, Volibear is now being written as a demi-god so that's even more power to her, Udyr... ummmm.... I really don't know why he's there, I feel he's more Ionian themed tbh. But nevertheless the first two are strong allies!

Another reason is she's a warleader, a general of sorts. She's been in battles and has a mind for tactics of sorts. She may even know the landscape fairly well and use that to her advantage, like create avalanches or trap enemies in giant ice cracks. Maybe go for supply routes and do hit and runs on them for their supplies while starving out the enemy or go for weak points to make the enemy real and make mistakes. On top of this I feel like she'd be more of the tribemen type to assimilate a tribe into her own rather than try and convince them to get along with them, which depending on how well the tribe reacts could be easy or difficult.

Really when it comes down to it, this is still a war and in the case of that I can't think of anyone else in this region to better win it. Will she be a good leader? Not really since she's more about raiding and fighting among other tribes. But then again, that's mostly what I think of the Freljord. Not everyone in this region are going to have the same tactics or morals on how to survive this landscape. You have to figure that on your own and if you need something that you can't normally obtain, you have to find it from something else and take it. No time for negotiations since you view them as unworthy of living here and vice versa.

Again this is just my opinion on the matter and I do like other's comments and thoughts so keep them coming. I'm curious as to what others have to say.

75 Comments

KuroCaliber7 votes

Sejuani would win an outright war, if it were only the small bands of each faction. I FEEL like Ashe had too many power players though. Tryndamere and his barbarians could effectively counter the similarly warlike winter's claw. Braum is a living legend and he allied with Ashe as well. Gragas enjoys what Ashe promises, so he may fight for her. Nunu is a kid, but if willump is like a yeti leader or something then that'd help too. Anivia supports ashe too, and the duo tend to seem like strategists over combatants. Sejuani, Olaf, voli and Udyr are incredibly vicious, but their battle prowess is all they have. No point in ruling an Ash heap. Lissandra seems to be set up for failure. She only has a troll army, and while deception may lead to the death of Olaf an perhaps nunu, I doubt lissandra and trundle could match Ashe and sejuani in combat.

Shinjrou7 votes

I "think" you forgot about the Frostguard tribe... BTW just because Lissandra is trash in the game it doesnt mean she is not strong lorewise

KuroCaliber2 votes

Frostguard aren't allied to Lissandra the Ice Witch though, only to the Dervish. If they ever found out that Lissandra perverted entire generations of their leadership, they'd break away to support either Ashe or Sejuani.

Thefrostyviking4 votes

Too late for that tho, she already made them worshipp the watchers secretly, if she was to reveal herself at this point the tribe would follow her.

It would just also cause the entire nation to collapse on her little frostguard too though, which is why she doesn't do it.

Arakadia2 votes

Lissandra has control of the Frostguard who have been twisted and bent, tons of magic and magical items, fortresses, a troll army, and in Ournns lore it is revealed that the Watcher's seal is aging and eventually they can break free.

Beyond Legends1 votes

I think you might be underestimating the power of the troll army. Remeber in Ryze's lore it took a freaking world rune to keep the trolls at bay from invading the village. It's quite obvious a non heavily magicly enhance person stand little chance against the trolls in league. I think if the trolls were to gather under lssandra's leadership and were to invade both ashe and sejuani's land, it would be a near masscare.

KuroCaliber1 votes

See we don't know if the world rune was needed just for that. I saw it kinda like strapping a nuke to your doorbell. While the small tribe couldn't stand against the trolls, I think at the very least some of the power players could. Braum for instance broke a troll out of a mountain when the troll couldn't escape. Anivia is a Demigoddess. Ashe could probably kill them from a distance, as according to trundle, trolls only use clubs. Olaf doesn't care cuz he'll never die in battle. Voli is a Demi God, a small tribe of 92 couldn't stop the trolls, but a United army? I think it would be possible then.

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

{quoted}

Braum for instance broke a troll out of a mountain when the troll couldn't escape.

It was literally a Troll Kid, not grown up.

KuroCaliber1 votes

The story claims it was a kid, but riot made it seem like it was actually Grugback the hideous and lissandra twisted that story to make braum seen less powerful.

GreenLore4 votes

I honestly think Lissandra should win. She schemed behind everyones back for centuries,so she'd honestly look dumb if her plans fail completely.

Sejuani would be my second choice,because like the opener here says,she represents the freljord better than anyone else.

And yeah I don't really want Ashe to be the one who wins in the end,though I do feel like she'll be the winner,since she has more of a "main character" feeling to her,since she is the good one wheras Sejuani and Lissandra come off as rather evil(or at best morally gray in sejuanis case)

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Making this thread is probably pointless but not for a reason you´d expect in the first place but you´d notice if you read a lot of lore.

But new lore doesn't match the old one at all, in the old one two of the ancient freljordian queens turned on the watchers and had them thrown into the abyss after invading their castle over the other side of the howling abyss. The two sisters also turned on lissandra and drove her off while she later came back and assassinated avarossa while the end of the final sister is unknown.

In the new one all the sisters worked together right from the start, they made ornn create the howling abyss, then they threw the watchers down there before having orn make a bridge over it to seal them.

And then Lissandra magically empowered the seal at the expense of giving it a time limit.

oh and she was blinded by an ursine, a bear from the same tribe as voli.

And Volibear was never a demigod before too, he was just a magical sentient bear creature that won power over lightning and thunder.

Not on the lvl of a demigod, he could still be killed by mortals, was one himself and he had an entire tribe with him.

What more......right, the death of avarsossa and the disappearance of the third sister make really no sense at all if Lissandra is supposed to the the reason if she was actually allied with them, if she really wanted to betray them then she´d just tell the watchers rather than help her sisters have them overthrown before assassinating them.

She´d also find a way to break the bridge and release them, which she hasn't despite having a massive amount of time to tinker with a unguarded bridge that was the only thing between her and victory.

Thus a huge gap now exists between old and new lore and the powerscales have been thrown into the air.

But going by the old lore, Ashe will win.

Quite simply too, because Sejuani doesn't have the power to confront her head on, her tribe is much too small.

So what if she has olaf and magic bear voli? Or even udyr?

Ashe has at least 3 or even 5 times as many soldiers, and thats her tribe alone, the fact that she´s descended from a well known legendary and rightful Queen and is in possession of a bloodline locked artifact serves as her backing to rule, it's also how she got so many to join her, a legitimate claim to the ancient throne.

Not to mention, she´s talented in domestic affairs, her tribe is the most prosperous after all, which serves to both entice more followers and....well create a stable living environment for even more to be born.

In time that situation would be like the Romans vs the Gaels, trained soldiers with varying experience and formations and superior equipment vs self taught veteran raiders.

We all know how that went down.

We also don't have any idea how many tribes Tryndamere got, nor how powerful anivia is exactly or even what Braum does, those 3 are all huge players for in this.

Braum is known to be a living legend in the entire freljord as a paragon for good, imagine just exactly how massive his symbolic value is, and anivia is essentially a divine beast whilst Tryndamere is the barbarian king.

We have no idea how many are included in their personal forces nor how many allies they could call for, but i doubt it's a little.

Then we have Sejuani, sitting in a frozen wasteland with a dying tribes barely kept from starvation by constant raids on the avarosian who are notoriously good archers.

In my view it´s a miracle that Seju´s tribe hasn't died of yet, the prime reason i can think of would be that Ashe has much too big a territory and can't keep it all safe enough to prevent well planned sneak attacks-....yet.

And then we have Lissandra in a true wildcard position, she has diguised herself as a number of people but most notably as a chief of a large tribe that allied with Ashe and now acts as a adviser, she is in a prime position for both assassination....and identity theft which she has proven mastery off.

But if Ashe were to die chaos would erupt, Lissandra could use it to gather more followers and then once again push Seju into a corner due to a lack of allies.

She certainly has the time and magic for a number of things which is the scary part, and we have no idea how powerful the frostguard and trolls are nor if she has anything else hidden away.

So currently, in a frontal fight Ashe would crush seju, so Seju keeps running around not daring to go head to head.

Lissandra is in a major spot though, for while she lacks real military power does instead posses massively powerful magic and the best infiltration possible. She can from the current spot either assassinate ashe and recruit followers in the following chaos or try and replace Ashe and directly command an assault on Seju while disregarding casualties and costs.

So in my mind Seju is in a truly shitty spot while Ashe and Lissandra are both close to winning.

Nylisa3 votes

i liked everything in your comment but when you started talking about Sejuani's tribe , you repeated that "we dont know how many" about Ashe's followers but you say Sejuani tribes are small and low on numbers and you dismissed her follower WITH the possibility of numbers they bring to the table.

you took the time to analyze each of ashe's followers one by one stating that they are big and their numbers are unknown but compacted Sejuani's followers into one line. we dont have solid information about how many tribes are following Sejuani either how many people they have and how many her followers are bringing. its too early to dismiss Sejuani from this power play.you also dismissed all Sejuani capabilities while talking about Ashe's in Detail can you explain more on that?

also have you ever thought about the possibility of Sejuani receiving help from behind Freljord borders? i remember few players making some fair and interesting arguments as in why Noxus might be interested in helping her , it was in the old boards , will try to look it up if i can find them.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

You make a good point, i truly forgot to do it but i had a reason for it.

Seju really only has a single helper with any followers, Volibear and his tribe which does count for something, armored beefy bears do indeed count as a good power. But i doubt there are that many of them since they´d be a lot bigger than a bunch of sidekicks if not.

Olaf has left his people and run off alone, he has no friends with him.

And then for Seju, the reason i chose to be dismissive towards her is because i read a sidestory about her which i felt gave one a solid idea about her mentality.

First up, the story mentions her tribe once having been a big one but it has over time lost most of it's numbers and the remaining ones are growing weaker and dying off to starvation and cold. Sejani saw this as a sign of weakness and trained herself extremely harshly to the point where she could size control alone, executed the remaining "weaklings" and started raiding far more than ever.

But when the avarosian tried to make a peace offer with the food that Seju lacked so badly she choose to burn it since she felt relying on that would make her tribe weak, she wants them to be ontop of it all, I think she might have executed a few more at this point.

So what's she left with? A hardened bunch of veteran raiders and a small ever dying tribe, that is constantly losing a small amount of members.

Because i truly doubt raiding a tribe with a number of expert archers is all that cost free even if they are too scattered to fully prevent the raids from succeeding x)

Seju has amazing willpower but she is terrible as a leader, she fails to help her people grow in numbers which is exactly what they need and instead chooses to try and increase their willpower at the cost of their already small numbers.

By the time she grows her tribe to a middle sized one with the mentality she wants Ashe will already be far too large and most likely have trained units and a organized military force. She might even build walls and such to keep Sejuani out which would deny her the food she so desperately seeks.

Not to mention that by the time Ashe settles internal affairs she might go looking to clean out Sejuani herself with her tribe in tow, that would be kinda pitiful just because Seju doesn't have any archers or terribly skilled hunters x)

Meanwhile Ashe has everything, Archers, warriors, barbarian front-liners and general strongmen from all over, possibly also cavalry but Seju would be stronger in that one department.

So unless Sejani changes her solitary mentality and ceases to be so stubborn she will be crushed by sheer numbers alone, or she will just be walled out and left to starve to the same eventual effect-

Nylisa1 votes

i really love your view and reasoning on this!

and i really hope she changes in some ways while retaining her nature. Sejuani is a very interesting character with a lot to offer i really hate to see her go down as a crazy barbaric nuts who refused to play smart! and from what i know by Riot story writing i dont think she will go down like that!

she has emotional problems, i truly understand her as well and i feel like she do some of the things she does only for the sake of not giving in! i can relate to that! and i really understand how she feels about people,how everyone accept and believe the thing she resent and hate! and how mad she could be that everyone go the same direction she refuse to accept and go!

Thefrostyviking2 votes

I think Seju has potential as a character as well and i definitely don't want her to go down as some dumb barbarian raider.

She represents the viewpoint that personal strength is the greatest necessity to live in the harsh freljord, in order to live and thrive you must be strong enough to stand over all others. Relying on others will only leave you open to betrayal and blackmail and eventual suppression.

An ideal fit for a leader born in the harsh winter lands where people have been locking in civil war for hundreds if not thousands of years with constant raiding and backstabbing of others.

Ashe stands for the well used but good reasoning that unity is the key to victory, by working together they can overcome any in their path. By joining hands and forgiving they can overcome and rise back up to their past glories and beyond.

Lissandra is the dark/magic path that stats that one by worshiping those...watchers one gets to be powerful and rule. Personal motivations are actually a bit unclear because her entire goal seems to be the watchers which makes me feel like somethings missing.

Altho this is all in the old lore, it seems about to get rewritten as seen in Ornns stories.

Nylisa1 votes

I believe so too, i think underneath all of that bold acting and the will to show everything that relying on others make one weak is another person which can be an ally Ashe needs, this could be one way the story goes, with Lissandra as a threat these 2 got no chance standing alone. i believe lissandra is way more cunning and powerful than we see right now!

i cant blame sejuani for the way she is.if i wanna analyze her based on the story we are given, from the early age she had no actual family no parents no one to care for her and show what affections and relying on others means, she only had starvation and cold and barbaric warriors around her!

she never knew how it can be a good thing to have someone watching your back. thats what makes her interesting to me. i wanna know when finally/if she lower her shields and break chains what kind of person she is behind it!

i definitely agree with you she got what it takes to survive as a person but not to survive as a community a clan or a country.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Yeah, and that's why i called her mentality a solitary one, she is raising a strong bunch of individuals bound to be beneath her by virtue of strength.

And her childhood was quite tragic i agree, but she grew up to be even colder than the people around her, for that is the only way she knows how to live.

But i just recalled an interesting story, apparently when olaf and Seju first met he was charging headfirst into her tribe and forcing their lines back alone.

He then went berserk as they started wearing him down and then broke straight through towards what he in his haze, recognized as the leaders area.

Where he ran right into Sejani sitting on bristle, just....looking at him, which served to actually cool his berserker rage down because he felt so cold just looking at her eyes.

Then some talking happened and they became allies.

I am wondering how frozen a person she is to directly make Olaf chill out by just staring him down after he smashed right through her camp O-o

And i don't actually want her to mellow out and join Ashe, not really anyway.

But i also want her to realize that she needs to size farmlands and divert a portion of her people to tend to that land in order to ensure growth.

In other words, i hope to see her make a community more than a vagrant bunch of raiders destined to die in a frozen waste, having farmers doesn't mean that one´s warriors are bad-

Nylisa1 votes

In reality i fear that Ashe would win due to her Promises and just thinking about it makes me so mad, even though i agree with Sejuani that she is making people weak by her ways.and i think she is kinda buttering people up . i dont like her not one bit!

Ashe does have too many powerful allies but that can be as bad for her as it is good. she is sitting in a position that can be tempting to anyone. so i think Ashe has the upperhand here but its not just as simple as it looks. it would be too easy if she gather allies win the war and be in peace!

On the other hand Sejuani determination is one thing i cant simply overlook, her purpose her allies. you can never underestimate the power of will and purpose.

there is Ornn as well that we still dont know what role he is going to play in all of this , his story mentions that he is here to meddle in mortal affairs which could be a hint. if he is on Sejuani's side which could be likely judging by what Sejuani stands for Ashe is done for.

**In personal opinion **i hope Sejuani wins cause i f.....g hate Ashe and her self-righteous self proclaimed one man show act.and she is so sure about herself and how she is the rightful Queen. She claimed herself Queen,she got married on it,planned on it and is making a future based on it, like woah woah slow down! where you going so fast? what makes you think you are the true Queen here?!i dont believe in self-claimed leaders they always have agendas!

EDIT: after discussing this further in the topic i came to conclusion that this cant end in Ashe uniting the land Nor end in Sejuani winning with a bloodbath. that would be too easy! but then again none of the events from old lore and journal of justice matters so no point giving too much thoughts.

BestJhinUniverse3 votes

{quoted}

In reality i fear that Ashe would win due to her Promises and just thinking about it makes me so mad, even though i agree with Sejuani that she is making people weak by her ways.and i think she is kinda buttering people up with lies to be the Queen. i dont like her not one bit!

Ashe does have too many powerful allies but that can be as bad for her as it is good. she is sitting in a position that can be tempting to anyone. so i think ashe has the upperhand here but its not just as simple as it looks. it would be too easy if she gather allies win the war and be in peace!

On the other hand Sejuani determination is one thing i cant simply overlook, her purpose her allies. you can never underestimate the power of will and purpose.

there is Ornn as well that we still dont know what role he is going to play in all of this , his story mentions that he is here to meddle in mortal affairs which could be a hint. if he is on Sejuani's side which is likely judging by what Sejuani stands for Ashe is done for.

**In personal opinion **i hope Sejuani cause i f.....g hate Ashe and her self-righttous self proclaimed one man show act.and she is so sure about herself and how she is the rightful Queen and doesn't give a rats ass about Sejuani. She claimed herself Queen,she got married on it,planned on it and is making a future based on it, like woah woah slow down? where you going so fast? what makes you think you are the true Queen here?!

But didn't voli and anivia beat the shit out if ornn in his lore? Think I saw people mention that on the boards.

Depending on that if he is spiteful would likely side with lissandra since she likely has done no wrong to ornn yet. Imagine a troll attack after sej vs Ashe armies suffer casualties while all the trolls are armed and protected by Ornn's wares, lissandra's cunning and ice magic.

Fasmodey4 votes

Ornn doesn't like magic, I highly doubt he would ally with Lissandra, even more if he suspects she is malicious af.

KuroCaliber2 votes

That and he met Lissandra when she was still one of the three sisters, bet he could see through that disguise right away. She also weakened his bridge even though he warned them magic weakens structural strength.

Fasmodey4 votes

Ornn feels like neutral demigod of Freljord, and should stay to be.

Ashe has Anivia Sejuani has Volibear Lissandra has... Trundle. LMAO

I think Lissandra needs a malicious demigod on her side. And Ornn should be one without any side.

KuroCaliber7 votes

I mean Lissandra's got the Watchers who are sealed up like some 5 pieces of Exodia shit.

Fasmodey2 votes

Oh fuck I forgot about them. Sad that they are imprisoned.

I wish for a watcher champion in the future, so bad.

BestJhinUniverse2 votes

{quoted}

Ornn doesn't like magic, I highly doubt he would ally with Lissandra, even more if he suspects she is malicious af.

Must hate living on runeterra then. But he might get along with maokai occasionally like two old men talking shit about magic if that is the case.

KuroCaliber5 votes

Anivia never beat up Ornn, only Voli. Anivia played a prank on Ornn when he was younger and that resulted in accidentally burning down his house. But Ornn doesn't know she did it.

Fasmodey1 votes

I wouldn't call it beating up by Volibear, but quits. Story never implied Volibear won over Orrn.

KuroCaliber1 votes

I guess I could say, "had a violent altercation. "

Fasmodey1 votes

Just a bit violent altercation that is enough to accidently murder a village. :p

Epicurus1 votes

And create a volcano.

KuroCaliber5 votes

She married politically to unite two factions of Freljord. And it is only a lie if she fails to deliver on it, which she hasn't to date. Sejuani has Voli's support and Ornn hates Voli, so that will never happen. If anything, Ornn would support Ashe because it is only in peace time that one can craft the wonders that Ornn admires. War ruins that, and Sejuani believes in return to archaic and vicious tradition. If anything I thought Sejuani was the one-woman show, people just rally behind her for the blood she promises. It depends on what you believe helps the Freljord people survive, military might and discipline (Sejuani) or unity, evolution, and peace (Ashe).

Also, it's not like she ignored Sejuani, she offered Sejuani's tribe food as a gesture of peace and Sejuani burned it, so that's on her. Ashe calls herself Queen because she believes in a United Freljord, while Sejuani only seeks to conquer and leave the many to die. It's basically choosing between Janna and Urgot. You're either peaceful, and farm and grow as a group with Ashe, or you fight for each day you live with Sejuani. Quite frankly, I think that in a numbers game, more would join Ashe, but the resilient would join Sejuani.

I honestly hate war hawks, they never have a good view for the future, or have any way to progress. They just fight, finding new enemies until they die, and that is a pitiful way to live.

Nylisa2 votes

Ashe did not ignore Sejuani but her offer was exactly like what Daenerys promised to Snow (as its joked about here as well) kneel to me accept me as Queen kind of offer, Even though Sejuani can be a bit of a hardass, i wouldn't want to do it either. if anything Ashe and her Group is a one woman show here as their purpose and their "promise of future" is full of holes that can backfire. and i know she got married to unite the country that was another part of her one woman show act.

i agree Sejuani ways aren't exactly what a country like Freljord needs but she has the more realistic view here. thats why i think Ashe is lying well... i cant exactly call it lying , fooling herself would be the better phrase for it, i mean Uniting the country?really? is it that easy? and i agree with sejuani , soft people who work in farms and grow crops cant survive a harsh place like Freljord with so many wars and Tribes looking to Conquer it.

and we are talking about unpredictable environment with countless possibilities. Ornn is a god (well believed to be) i would expect a god to see beyond just "i hate this guy" when it comes to such affairs.

KuroCaliber1 votes

Obviously uniting Freljord is not easy, because Sejuani believes in fighting for life every day to survive. If Ashe's promises were as hollow as you make them out to be, she would be losing followers not gaining them. Apparently soft people who work in farms and grow crops are surviving Freljord very well, especially if they can give out crops as peace treaties, so they certainly aren't subsistence farming. Avarosan are the largest faction because they all share the 'ideal' of a united Freljord. Ashe isn't holding an army of freed slaves like Danaerys is, she's holding a group of scattered colonies that by themselves elected to join her cause because their leaders believed in it and her. Sejuani's side is entirely battle junkies, save for Udyr, who would likely turn on one another once their common enemy is defeated. Also unlike Danaerys, Ashe does not jump at the idea of battle when someone does not agree with her. That's more Sejuani's schtick. I'm sure if Sejuani had dragons, she'd burn everyone who did not share her philosophy, but if Ashe had the same dragons, she'd just try and find a way to feed them that isn't people.

Nylisa2 votes

Danaerys followers are exactly the same as Ashe's. they following both of them because they believe in them. and they are surviving it by farming and growing crops NOW but not when hell break loose! in Freljord its just matter of time before it does! and not only because of Sejuani.

and gaining followers isnt exactly proof that the promises aren't hollow. people of freljord been through a lot they suffered lots of hardships , hunger , cold , war so of course they follow the promise of food and peace when they see it! regardless of how unlikely it would seem. with a grain of wheat you can turn a hungry man to a obeying machine!

KuroCaliber2 votes

Hell will only break loose if Sejuani engages. Ashe is not aggressive like Sejuani. And Sejuani looted the messengers Ashe sent for all the supplies they had, proving she can only take, not make. Once everything is taken, then all who are under Sejuani's rule will take from each other until they all perish.

Nylisa2 votes

She didnt loot she burned all the Grains and took it as an insult. i would too becase like "here since you cant feed yourself have a little charity and then join to obey me and my plans"

and trust me with the beings we have in freljord with different tribes different monsters , gods and threats... sejuani is not the only thing that might turn Frejord to a frozen hell.

one thing is clear this wont end in Ashe uniting the land and living in peace and wont end in Sejuani wining by a bloodbath!even those two finally deciding to work together could be a possibility with everything that might rises in freljord.

Nylisa1 votes

She already gave the barbarians a home and a place to live while everyone else turned them down , they would follow her regardless so dont you think this marriage thing stinks a bit?

KuroCaliber1 votes

It was apparently to solidify their allegiance. Freljordans are matriarchal by tradition, and the lead females choose their King among the strongest of their warriors. Hence Tryndamere's marriage to Ashe.

Nylisa1 votes

exactly my point where i say "stinks"

KuroCaliber1 votes

stinks...?

Nylisa1 votes

i just dont believe in a self-proclaimed leader , leaders that self claim have agendas , and the way she aims at the barbarians loyalty by going for their Matriarchal traditions doesn't sit well with me! i dont believe that she is everything she claims to be. in one of the JoJ issues i cant remember which one i remember one of her followers talking about how they should expect a prince anytime soon to cement and ensure the future of this alliance and Ashe's position because of fear they have for sejuani. that didn't help my skeptical views on all of this

judging by what i know from league of legends lore characters are never simple black and white either, so i can never portrait Ashe as a true leader with honest purposes.

KuroCaliber2 votes

Well, unlike real world leaders, we are told Ashe's agenda. And the Matriarchal traditions are Freljordan, the Barbarians are Patriarchal. So she's honoring her customs and introducing the Barbarians as a proper part of the Freljord with their king actually giving their people a voice.

If we're using JoJ references now, I nod you to Ashe and Tryndamere's coronation, in which I quote, "However, her [Sejuani] opinion was not echoed by her people, as hundreds of Winter’s Claw tribesmen journeyed to Rakelstake to attend Ashe’s coronation."

Nylisa1 votes

We are told her agenda's yes but is it that simple? IS she really honoring that or there is more to it? if yes then i would be really disappointed in how league of legend story is written. writers never spill the entire story all in one go! Ashe isnt exactly the Saint she is portraited to be and Sejuani isnt the monster she appears to be now. cause then that would be a boring story of good and evil with good winning over the forces of bad.

your reference to JoJ is just more proof on my statement earlier ,show a hungry man a grain of wheat and a battle wounded,signs of peace they turn to your obeying machines.

KuroCaliber1 votes

At this point you're gallivanting on sayings. I'm giving evidence with each of my points. You're free to be disappointed, but given the evidence we have, this our perception of the truth. Some degree of skepticism is warranted to be sure, but at this point you're grasping at conjectures that haven't been written yet. The worst you can say about Ashe is that she gave up pursuing revenge for her mother's death and instead chose to pursue her dream of a united Freljord. Also aren't warriors obeying machines too? Sejuani actually has her tribe either fight for her or die. She's perfectly happy letting the many die for the few, and as a ruler, that's pretty horrid.

Nylisa1 votes

First thats the point of this topic to give conjuctures and speculations we have based on the information we have. the entire topic is made to talk about things that havent been written.

Second your statement about me being dissapointed and "our perception of truth'happens to be your opinion doesnt make it a right and true statement you cant speak for everybody

Third this discussion was nice and fun until you decided to make it personal and talk about me instead a bit. the saying i brought up is simply a logical fact that proves my point about why hungry people would follow someone like that and is just proof that it doesnt mean someone like ashe is actually a good leader people follow because of her ideals!

KuroCaliber1 votes

See we can make conjectures, but we can't base them on other assumptions. You're saying because you assume Ashe isn't what she seems, that she's a bad leader full of false promises. We don't even know what the promises are.

When I talk about perception, I'm talking about a perception based solely on what is written by rioters, not a saying that may or may not have bearing in this conversation. You're free to personally be skeptical, but your skepticism towards Ashe's motives is not a fact. At least not yet. So I'd ask that you refrain from brandishing it as a way to buttress your argument.

Nylisa1 votes

I didnt say bad leader and full of false promises just not what she appears to be. and i thought conjuncture is based on incomplete information which ours is definitely not complete!

my skeptical view is not based on any written facts? i gave you my reasons and why i think they way i do,i even talked about that JoJ issue, if we see them differently with different meanings thats another story! im not brandishing it im sorry if came off as that. But as i said this entire topic is to make speculations as what would happen and my opinion? This wont end in ashe wining the war because she simply cant be that plain and simple same as sejuani. Due to the facts i brought up about self proclaimed leaders,and the weaknesses of her plans and her alliances.those weaknesses/flaws ARE speculations we can have based on things we know about her plans

you want me to talk about facts? take a look at the things we know about Ashe's personality the things we know about her and the things she is doing are inconsistent with each other.

you just choose to accept ashe is a honest truthful and rightful leader and believe the things that are being said based on the things that you read and i cant accept those. difference of opinion. i think there is more to it than the simple things we read on the surface. LoL always had deep stories like this.

Nylisa1 votes

Why tryndamere of all the people why the barbarian leader of all the tribes and people that follow her?why the dude with the big powerful berserker army?

KuroCaliber1 votes

Because he is the strongest man. It's a freljordan custom that the ruling female of her tribe chooses her King from the strongest men. Ashe chose tryndamere

Nylisa2 votes

so she is basing the evolution and prosperity of her future peace on barbaric custom and traditions?That didnt answer what i was asking for but nevermind this conversation wont go anywhere. Thank you for your time.

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