New item - Last Chance

LBmyBB·Nov 23, 2016·2 votes·796 views

I have heard all those adc's who are tired of being instantly one shotted and how all the ap's and such get all the nice items. So I thought that adc's should have their own little zonyas.

Grants 45 attack damage Grants 5% movement speed unique passive - if user loses 60% of their health in the last 1.5 seconds, they gain 30% of their hp back that was taken. This has a 150 second cd unique active - Last Chance: user becomes untargetable and invulnerable to damage for .7 seconds. The user cannot perform any action during this brief time. This has a 120 second cd

37 Comments

AstôlfoNov 24, 20163 votes

Uh how about fuck no. This item concept is ridiculously fucking stupid.

I hope to god this was a joke/satire thread.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20162 votes

Have I ever critisized your stuff? Apparently you like imbalanced fighting.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20162 votes

It's not imbalanced.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20162 votes

Yes it is, the fact that people can 2 shot anyone is broken, especially the adc's who really take the heat.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20162 votes

If you get 2-shot, you either did something horribly wrong, your team failed at peeling correctly, or the assassin/their team played it well. If you don't like getting 2-shot because you're squishy, don't play a squishy champion. If you're going to play them, then either stop crying or learn to play/position properly.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20161 votes

Omg you idiot. Its only natural to get 2 shotted in this game; and its practically required to have a squishy champ on your team if you wanna win. And a lot of times, you don't have to be squishy to get 2 shotted

AstôlfoNov 24, 20161 votes

Then get better at the game so you don't get 2-shot. Quit crying.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20161 votes

Sounds like someone knows im right.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20161 votes

??? You only get 2-shot if you're trash. i.e; get better.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20161 votes

Im pretty sure, that somewhere in this vast world someone that was "good" by your standards gets 2 shotted.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20161 votes

Good players make mistakes too. Good players also know how to outplay properly or take advantage of said mistakes.

LBmyBBNov 25, 20161 votes

You really don't want to be wrong do you [slayer-jinx-unamused]

AstôlfoNov 25, 20161 votes

I am not wrong.

MatthewRT2Nov 23, 20162 votes

why does it have to be ad? alot of the people that get one shot "that arent a squishy adc" are mages alot of the ad you see in game is jg and top which tend to be tanky so this is just an ad item or another item to be build on hybrid assasins to give them a longer get in get out time. I'd be ok with this is zonyahs has similar changes

LBmyBBNov 23, 20161 votes

Theres only like 3 ad assassins that are really prominent, and its not that hard to catch them, if your smart enough that is. And hybrid champs shouldn't be able to have both zonyas and this one, its one or the other.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

Let me see: Rengar, Kha'zix, Talon, and Zed. (All popular now.) Divers of similar nature: Yasuo, Riven. All of them are rather hard to catch. Except Talon. (Whom I like. I think he's balanced and fun.) Yasuo's not too hard to manage with some good CC, and the same usually goes for Riven. Kha'zix is very slippery, even when you have good CC, and Rengar is hard to stop. Once he leaps in, you can usually get him, but it's very hard to stop him from getting your back-line. Zed is a bit easier to manage, but a good Zed can usually get to your back-line and deal some damage before you catch him. If you get him soon enough though you can usually stop him from getting the kill.

I kind of agree with you on hybrids, but I don't know if it would be efficient to build two survival items. (Which are generally statistically inefficient.)

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20162 votes

This is actually a lot weaker than it may sound. Part of the reason Zhonya's is good on mages is because they rely on cooldowns, and it provides a window to reset them. However, ADCs are generally better off auto-attacking because of lifesteal, so this item would typically give the enemy space to breathe while forcing your allies to do their best to kill the enemy. (Excepting its duration is too low for that.) A better idea would be to make the user invulnerable for a very short window, like 0.5 seconds. (Yours is already low, I know.) However, this would also apply to assassins, tanks, etc. It would generally be good for everyone except mages. It would also be overpowered. (At higher elos that is). Thankfully, we already have_** Edge of Night.**_ Which isn't bad on ADCs, and works very similarly to Zhonya's for AD damage dealers. And it's pretty balanced.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20164 votes

Except ADCs should not have good damage-granting survivability options beyond like Hexdrinker/Maw/Mercurial. And even Hexdrinker/Maw is still borderline too strong.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

What?

AstôlfoNov 24, 20162 votes

Was there something hard to understand about what I said?

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

Yes. What do you mean ADCs shouldn't have any good survivability items? Why? Just stating it makes no sense to me. I know they're supposed to be glass cannon, but even glass cannons need to have some means to keep from breaking. And saying that only a certain selection of tools for that purpose are acceptable doesn't make any logical sense to me. If one tool is good, certainly another could be devised to perform a similar job.

PS. I play tanks most of the time, so the idea that ADCs should not be able to survive doesn't make any sense to me.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20162 votes

Because if you want survivability, you should trade off damage. If you want more than that, learn to play them properly, learn to kite, learn to position, and learn to work with your team. The only acceptable survival items on champion types like them are ones that still rely on their own skill for the most part (Learning to QSS/MercScim the right thing for example). Hexdrinker/Maw is pushing it because it is so incredibly strong and offers a massive and instantaneous shield against burst, what they're specifically supposed to be hard countered by.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

Ah. Excepting Maw, all 'survival' class items are statistically inefficient. (I think Maw is situationally amazing. For instance, on AD casters, like assassins, bruisers, Jhin, and Miss Fortune.) The others are always a trade-off though. One I've found more and more ADCs are unwilling to take. What with there being no armor equivalent for ADCs, the only effective survival options against a balanced team are either lifesteal or GA. (Technically, Merc. Scim. is still good, but at my elo no-one uses actives anyway.)

Edge of Night is another good example of a properly balanced survival tool. It's stats aren't the best on its own, but the active is great. So long as you use it. And use it properly. However, my point is that even ADCs should have some effective survival options. I don't think they should be sentanced to such a quick death out of hand. (That's not to say I want ADCs running around with little Fizz E's but I don't think expanding their defensive options is necessarily a bad idea.)

AstôlfoNov 24, 20161 votes

It's because Maw/Hexdrinker are amazing in both offensive stats while making it practically impossible to be bursted down with one rotation - something an ADC should never be safe against. The shield automatically triggers without any required user input. Also, in the case of Maw, it grants additional AD, spell vamp, and lifesteal for no reason. Which means they could lifesteal enough during that shield period to stay alive. Which they should not be able to do. They should just die.

ADCs don't need armor.

Merc Scim is mostly fine, although the MR could be toned down slightly. The active still requires user input though, and the speed boost means it can also be used as a Ghost instead of CC cleanse. It requires good decision-making, hence, why it is more balanced. Also, just cleansing CC doesn't automatically mean they will win. They still have to play smart afterwards.

The cooldown on Edge is a little too low, but the concept is good. It requires a channel any damage can interrupt before you can gain a 1-time spellshield. Currently, if damage interrupts it though, it places it on like a 4-second CD before letting you use it again. I think it should just count it as used-up and put it on full CD though, in that case, to punish for using it at a bad time. Also the cooldown should be at least like 90 seconds minimum.

ADCs are never sentenced to a quick death out of hand. They are one of the strongest classes in all of League, and one of the only ones to get continual favoritism from Riot. If an assassin kills them, the ADC player did something bad. The assassin was not OP. If the ADC does not know how to kite and position properly, along with warding, playing smart/safe, and working with their team, that is their fault and they deserve to be deleted. It is understandable if the rest of their team failed to peel correctly, but that is the general gist of it.

The only assassins that are even slightly strong at the moment are Rengar and Kha'Zix, and while Rengar is the stronger of the two, Kha'Zix has the better single-target killing ability thanks to Invisi over Camo. However, no one will be alone unless they are stupid, so Rengar is better because he can actually fight, cleanse CC, use hard CC, and heal. However, Camo means he can be easily countered and counterplayed and stopped from killing the ADC or mage or what have you.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

You're so anti-adc that I had to check your match history and see what you played. I notice that most of the champs you play are mid-lane burst champions or Illaoi. (No other toplaner was really worth mentioning.) I would like to note that both of these roles are very much ant-adc in nature. It's their job to kill the adc so that your team can win. As such it makes sense that you wouldn't want ADCs to have much survivability.

I did note that the only assassin you've played recently has been Zed. And he's rather balanced right now. (I also agree with your assessment of assassins. Rengar is currently harder to deal with, even though Kha'zix is more busted, and in general, besides those two, assassins are in a good spot.)

I disagree with your assessment of Edge, in that I think your complaints are unwarranted. If the charge up was stopped, four seconds is long enough to ensure your enemies have enough time to kill you. And then it would still need to charge up again. Remember, you got absolutely nothing out of the active if it was popped before it activated.

I do think you're perhaps a bit biased against ADCs, and should review that. I've noted that the ADC role has seen many swings up and down in the past year, but I'd never say that Riot shows favoritism towards them. They already don't have much survivability, and all survival options have been nerfed during the past year or so. Additionally, the entire Armor Pen build was not intended for ADCs, and they weren't balanced for it. Riot has been trying to kill it since then. ADCs are rarely buffed, and since their last update as a class, only Vayne (and maybe MF) has been egregiously buffed. (And even so, she was entirely out of the meta, so it makes sense.)

For some perspective, if you look at my match history, you'll see that I've been messing around with all roles recently, but if you looked before that you would see an emphasis on support, top, and jungle, almost entirely focused on tanks and bruisers. With the occasional Jinx, Aurelion, or Veigar game inbetween just to spice things up. Besides Miss Fortune and Vayne, I don't think any ADC's been seriously busted recently. And I think both occasions were accidents. (As a note, I don't think Jhin was busted. Nor did I think Jinx was (too) busted.)

AstôlfoNov 24, 20161 votes

Except ADCs should never ever be dying to a juggernaut unless they're trash, because of simply learning how to kite and not fight a juggernaut in melee? And they really shouldn't be dying to mids either, if they know how to position properly and work with their team, instead of wandering off by themselves to die in a 1v1. That's just simple logic.

I've been playing all the assassins (except Shaco/Fizz/Akali/Ekko) recently.

It's supposed to punish bad usage. If you used it in a position where you would get interrupted, that was a bad time/place to use it. Other things like this follow similar patterns, so I'm asking, why not Edge?

Armor Pen was an unintended abuse case. Therefore, them getting hurt by it being removed is irrelevant. They were never supposed to have it in the first place. And they abused Maw/Sterak's as bruiser ADCs for quite a while before Riot finally decided to fix it. And just about every single time something actually somewhat decently opposes ADCs, they immediately nerf/gut it, like they did with Rammus/Thornmail back in ADC update, and now with assassin "reworks".

ADCs really don't need any buffs when they're kept in near-constant and always pervasive strength.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 24, 20161 votes

ADCs should never die. At all. (No-one should ever die.) But that's not going to be the case. Juggernauts are supposed to be weak to kiting (they are) but it's also their job to wreck the squishies without dying. That's what I was talking about.

I can only see your ranked games.

I still disagree with you on Edge.

Again, agreed on Armor Pen. Sterak's was another issue we haven't talked about. Thornmail + Rammus still kills ADCs in just a second or two. So I wouldn't say it was gutted. And I can't say that the assassin rework made them significantly weaker. (But I'm still trying to figure that one out, so give me a few months.)

I agree that ADCs don't need buffs. Not sure what you mean in terms of 'pervasive' strength. I think it was pretty pervasive when we had 3 ADCs on one team, but thankfully those days are gone. Typically I've found ADCs to be situationally necessary. Each team uses the ADC for taking objectives, if nothing else, but often-times the ADC is kept at the back of the fight with limited team-fight impact. (Outliers: Lucian, Vayne, and Jinx. All of whom thrive in getting into the fray and wreaking havoc) When the ADC gets fed, of course, they become essential, and shred enemies that get too close, but when they're behind, they hide very passively behind their allies so that they don't just get one-shot by the tanks I'm so fond of. That's why I want to say that I'm rather sympathetic for the plight of ADCs. It's rather hard to play. When done right, and you get the ball rolling, you can hard-carry and push objectives, but otherwise, it's a very passive role. (Again, excepting the outliers.)

And even with the outliers I mentioned: Lucian drops off lategame and essentially just waits to ult. (Like MF.) Vayne is a bit broken, and probably will need to adjust her playstyle again when the nerfs hit properly. Jinx is always going to be good because of her Q, however, if she doesn't have the items, she has to play just as passively as every other ADC.

That's not to say that ADCs are always stuck in this quandary though, calculated aggression is the key to success, and that's why I don't think ADCs need either nerfs or buffs. They're going to respond to the meta whichever way it shifts.

AstôlfoNov 24, 20162 votes

ADCs should die if they play badly. Same with every other champion type.

For example, assassins are an ADC's hard counter - burst. ADCs are DPS. ADCs being able to outlifesteal said burst and kill the assassins means something's wrong.

And I think honestly ADCs are too feast or famine. If they get ahead, they are practically unstoppable monsters. If they get behind, they're worthless. Reducing some of their damage in return for a little more survivability would seem reasonable.

CrimsonCobra3Nov 25, 20161 votes

I think I agree with everything you said. I still disagree with some of the other stuff you said in your other replies, but I agree with this one.

WonderlandsNov 23, 20161 votes

Hourglass has been around for a long time. If they havent made an AD zhonyas by now, I don't think they ever will

TyrekGoldenspearNov 23, 20161 votes

Why not buy a item 3026 and have more resistances so you're even less likely to be oneshotted?

LBmyBBNov 23, 20162 votes

because who wants to waste a lot of gold on one item that could save them when they are already busy trying to get as much damages as possible

TyrekGoldenspearNov 25, 20161 votes

Because that's supposed to be the tradeoff.

Damage or defense.

If an item has both it should be weaker.

If it has an active like item 3157 it definitely should be weaker so it's a niche item not an item everyone wants.

hehe u loseNov 24, 20161 votes

It seems good, but 1.5 is way too big of a time frame. For some assassins, it would take only 0.5 - 1 second.

LBmyBBNov 24, 20162 votes

Do you mean to kill them or pop the hp?

hehe u loseNov 24, 20161 votes

I mean pop the HP

LBmyBBNov 24, 20161 votes

Right, its not supposed to just dispel any assassin that comes at you, its just supposed to give an adc a chance to live and if they're good enough, kill their pursuer.