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A Marksman As A Support?

ViiLLAiN··5 votes·4,217 views

So i was thinking, Why isn't there a Marksman that's actually a Support?

The Support role is really lacking in player base as have been proven with the 50% faster queue rate and also how fill is essentially Support Most of the time.

This has lead to my thought that people just don't find support fun to play.

Is it the role or is it the champions?

Maybe and this is just a thought they made a Marksman A Support, and nothing like ashe in terms of how she is labeled in the game as (marksman/support im talking about something in terms of Support/Marksman ..

I think this would be an interesting change in the role due to the fact that you will have the range of a marksman and can possibly give vision with their long range ablities, or maybe even heal from far?, CC from far.

ANywhoos, Just something i wanted to share, maybe people can tell me what they think of it ?[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

EDIT* When I use the term Marksman , I am referring to the meaning of a Champion that has a Auto attack range longer then Melee range. Not necessarily a ADC

31 Comments

Madra5 votes

I imagine that Riot will release a champion like this eventually because it hasn't been done before. Some Rioter champion designer, bequeathed by a self-granted auspice of genius, will take the challenge upon himself like some form of divine mandate; shoehorning and buffing the design until it fits into the meta. Then, when it's pick or ban in the LCS and everyone hates the more than life itself, he will sit back and congratulate himself on what a good job he did.

BastionKross1 votes

Don't be silly! Nothing like that has ever happened before.

Mordekaiser

TurlBirb1 votes

Hi, update from three years later. They still haven't done it. GG

Condón roto1 votes

hi, update from months later. They are about to launch the first one :D

I hate my ADC3 votes

It's the role. I just made a huge post describing what the support role means if you want an in-depth explanation on why Marksman shouldn't be supports.

If you don't feel like reading through it, you can skip to the "What makes a champion good at support" section. If you don't feel like reading that either, well here is a TL;DR: Marksmans are scaling champions. They need gold to get items to deal damage. Supports are gold starved.

ViiLLAiN2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=aYRyWnlc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-28T12:58:56.109+0000)

It's the role. I just made a huge post describing what the support role means if you want an in-depth explanation on why Marksman shouldn't be supports.

If you don't feel like reading through it, you can skip to the "What makes a champion good at support" section. If you don't feel like reading that either, well here is a TL;DR: Marksmans are scaling champions. They need gold to get items to deal damage. Supports are gold starved.

yeah but this marksman doesnt need gold to do dmg they are a support

I hate my ADC5 votes

What marksman doesn't need gold to do dmg? The definition of Marksman is a champion that can deal high amount of constant damage using their auto attacks more than their abilities. This require a lot of scaling from items that requires a lot of gold.

Ninja Baby one2 votes

And see, this is kind of why I don't think Riot will ever do it. A support doesn't just deal damage, but that's basically a marksman's job. On the other hand, a support often gives CC to the lane, which most Marksmen don't or they'd be brokenly OP. The few marksmen who have CC don't have strong CC or it's on their ultimates. If the Marksman had a heal it'd also be quite powerful, giving extra sustain to a lane that's probably not geared to be a sustain lane. Here's the thing: If they made a Support Marksman that would mean it's possible to go 2 Marksmen but, one ADC, one Support. What this would do is make the lane one of two things: Way too squishy or way too much damage. I can't see how a champion would work both as support and ADC, but I am open to the possibility.

I hate my ADC3 votes

That's the thing, it can't work both as a support and a ADC. In order to be a support, it would need to have abilities/passive that doesn't scale with items to deal with its low gold income. And to be an ADC, it would need to be able to scale off of items to deal lot of auto attack damage. If they made a champion that scale off of items to deal lot of auto attack damage with abilities/passive that doesn't scale with items, you'd have everyone playing it as a Marksman because you'd get everything a marksman need with powerful abilities/passive.

It's the same reason why Lulu attack speed was a thing. Her passive gave her damage even though she wasn't meant for auto attack scaling.

ViiLLAiN2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=aYRyWnlc,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-28T15:00:33.055+0000)

That's the thing, it can't work both as a support and a ADC. In order to be a support, it would need to have abilities/passive that doesn't scale with items to deal with its low gold income. And to be an ADC, it would need to be able to scale off of items to deal lot of auto attack damage. If they made a champion that scale off of items to deal lot of auto attack damage with abilities/passive that doesn't scale with items, you'd have everyone playing it as a Marksman because you'd get everything a marksman need with powerful abilities/passive.

It's the same reason why Lulu attack speed was a thing. Her passive gave her damage even though she wasn't meant for auto attack scaling.

The thing is Marksman to me that is, means a champion with longer then melee range auto attacks. Not necessarily A ADC.

For example, maybe this champion cant stack AD the way Jhin can't stack attack speed.

Ninja Baby one1 votes

that is the weirdest idea of a marksman I've ever heard of... If that's the case... Annie is a marksman...

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Ranged champions are not necessarily marksmen.

Quite frankly, the vast majority of the mage pool (i.e. Annie, Vel'koz, Ahri, Anivia, Viktor, Lux, etc) and many supports (i.e. Janna, Thresh, Soraka, Lulu) would be considered a marksmen under your definition when they just aren't.

"Marksman" already has an official definition and that isn't it.

Candurill3 votes

Hey!! Not long ago I made a Support/Assasin champion. I know, maybe not what you were looking for, but still a Marksman support might go the direction i went with Umbra, The Dark Servant I have been thinking of a marksman support though and I am planning on doing one when i come up with an awesome gameplay idea :)

A Digger3 votes

It's the role of support that needs to be updated. I honestly thought the support role would get a major update before this assassin update. The fill role would be an option if all roles were about equally desired positions. With a role that the majority of people don't want to play, it's not a good option. Looking at any game with roles like this, if a role or class is so undesired, then it should be obvious that it's concept should be reworked to make it more desirable to play.

DraygenBiscuit2 votes

I LOVE PLAYING SUPPORT! But most people look down on supports as weak, and if you do well and start carrying the other team trash talks you about how sucky you are, as a player becase you have to play support. For some reason people seem to think that support is what players who cant do anything else play, and therefore most people try to learn anything else but how to support. Plus when you support if you get kills normally your team will be upset with you.. Even if you 1v1ed the person with no one nearby. For example as sona, me and the adc had just killed bot lane and headed to mid to gank but I instead went to ward the enemy jg, I found rek sai killing the raptors so I went in and killed him. No one was nearby and yet the guy in top lane yelled ugh another stupid support... Don't ks! I was just thinking... really...

I hate my ADC2 votes

Support is probably the hardest role to play. Not because it is hard mechanically but because it is intricate. There is no clear path laid before you to tell you how to play support properly and many people get it wrong and miss out on a lot of things they could have done better.

When I see a Janna Ctrl + 4 in front of a dying turret minion with a shield up to block the Ezreal Mystic Shot, I insta honor that Janna when the game ends.

DraygenBiscuit1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=aYRyWnlc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-08-28T13:27:59.770+0000)

Support is probably the hardest role to play. Not because it is hard mechanically but because it is intricate. There is no clear path laid before you to tell you how to play support properly and many people get it wrong and miss out on a lot of things they could have done better.

When I see a Janna Ctrl + 4 in front of a dying turret minion with a shield up to block the Ezreal Mystic Shot, I insta honor that Janna when the game ends.

Well anyway to answer your original question, I guess a marksman could be a support if it had CC but I mean what starting item would you build on it? Most marksman use AD so spellthefs wouldn't work and the shield thing would probably just feel odd, so I guess you would have to go amulets coin. Even then you still have to get a team that wont completely dodge the game when you choose the adc to sup, becase they will do that. Then if your team is doing bad mid game, the fault will suddenly be on you since you are the one with the off meta pick... Its just a rough world out there lol. I suggest queing up with some friends to try it, because otherwise it will not be pleasant to test.

I hate my ADC1 votes

{quoted}

Well anyway to answer your original question,

I'm not the one who asked the question, silly you! I actually gave an answer to the original poster on another post in the thread.

DraygenBiscuit1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=aYRyWnlc,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-28T13:43:05.401+0000)

I'm not the one who asked the question, silly you! I actually gave an answer to the original poster on another post in the thread.

Whoops.. my bad lol

ViiLLAiN1 votes

{quoted}

Well anyway to answer your original question, I guess a marksman could be a support if it had CC but I mean what starting item would you build on it? Most marksman use AD so spellthefs wouldn't work and the shield thing would probably just feel odd, so I guess you would have to go amulets coin. Even then you still have to get a team that wont completely dodge the game when you choose the adc to sup, becase they will do that. Then if your team is doing bad mid game, the fault will suddenly be on you since you are the one with the off meta pick... Its just a rough world out there lol. I suggest queing up with some friends to try it, because otherwise it will not be pleasant to test.

i meant like a new champion that is a Support/Marksman type

MrFluffyPuffy2 votes

Those both are roles. You can´t have both. Cause if you decide to go support, then you aren´t a marksman anymore, the same on the other way around. But champs, who could decide between one of those roles are Ashe (E,R), Kalista (W,R), Teemo (Q,R).

BetaGeminorum2 votes

Tresh is a kind of marksman and Kindred's ult is kind of a support ability.

resumed1 votes

i suggested something like this a while ago where their passive would enable them to buff allies by using basic attack on them where they could give something like a bloodthirster shield with their aas

XIII Vanitas1 votes

Your definition of marksman is... weird, to say the least. If by "Support/Marksman" you mean a support that has ranged autos, we already have plenty. Bard Janna Karma Lulu Morgana Nami Sona Soraka Thresh

Spitemaster1 votes

You can take Kalista as a support. You have an unparalleled ability to save your lane partner, along with quite a bit of damage, in exchange for having little reliable cc. Build relic shield and last hit with your w's passive. It's not great, but you can make it work.

Duke Anax1 votes

Urgot actually makes for a decend Supp. Especially when your team is AD heavy.

Long range poke, soft CC, hard CC after 6, damage reduction and armor reduction.

kiUOlJX9r71 votes

In my opinion, every support except for Thresh and Nami is boring. Just not enough going on with other supports.

Soraka - Spam W Sona - ... Braum - His kit seemed boring to me and only his ult is rewarding. Blitz - Repetitive combos / Lacking utility Lulu - Is actually fun, but I don't find her very good with certain ADCs. Janna - Boring kit. Point click slow. Point click shield. Charge easy-to-hit knock up and a simple ult. Morgana - Repetitive kit. Bard - Not too bad to play, his roaming requirement makes you really want to do stuff in other lanes. Taric - meh. Easy to hit stun. Weak heal. Strong single target shield. Karma - Not that bad, big Shields, big damage, sanic fast. Fun to play with certain ADCs. Leona - In your face style, but her root isn't that rewarding imo. Ult is easy to hit, q is point click after root, and w is a dull ability. Zyra - AI Plants. (When a support Zyra says, "I did more damage than you and you're top/jg/mid!" -.- ) Zilean - Double bomb is rewarding, but w and e is dull, and his passive is pretty bad. His ult can be rewarding. Still a boring champion nonetheless.

I'm not saying these champs are bad or anything, I'm just saying that they have aspects of their kit that are boring.

Take Thresh, his q is a hook that he can follow to then knock the enemy a certain direction while pulling his teammate toward him. The play potential is unreal on Thresh, and that's why he's fun.

Nami is my ranged choice. She has a rewarding stun, a rewarding ultimate in her knockup, strong heals and good poke in one ability, and allows her carry to do tons of damage in their auto attack.

Wayfinder221 votes

I'd like to point out the fact that Ashe is labeled as "Marksman/Support"

Kuzja11 votes

I was thinking of creating a support marksman concept myself. I just need a good lore for it

FloRaider421 votes

Marksmen and support just doesn't mix well, considering that they are on opposite spectrums. One is very farm reliant and focuses on damage the other is supposed to function without any real farm and mainly uses CC.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I can't believe some1 hasn't already post this:

http://i.imgur.com/6Sp5ec0.jpg

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