If there is one thing lacking among characters, it's an Evil Demacian. Like a Corrupt Pope...

5G8Nri0B54··13 votes·3,704 views

Well, they wouldn't call it that in Runeterra. But consider Demacia is pretty much based off your generic medieval fantasy setting, their belief system is likely going to incorporate a fantasy counterpart of christianity complete with typical fantasy christianity characteristics, mainly there's always going to be an inquisition of some sort aimed at a persecuted group, over-privileged clergy men, tax-collecting, horribly corrupt and wealthy members at the top, a slimy finger in politics, and extreme zealotry, all the operating under a facade of benevolence.

Considering we've yet to have a single remotely close to evil or even corruptible Demacian at all. Closest we got is Fiora , who is at worst just an over-confident **** with a sexy french accent. But hardly Swain -level of evil. JarvanIV had potential with his storyline between him, Leblanc , and Swain , but it looks like Riot sailed off from that plotline a loooong long time ago. Shame, because I was curious to see what that threesome's deal was.

As far as narrative goes, such a champion could be used as a tool to explain away anything morally questionable Demacia has committed in it's past. It could be used as a tool to explain why some people would prefer to live in a dog-eat-dog world of Noxus. This potential champion or just a character would be the main driving force behind the megling genocide to explain away why meglings were never mentioned ever again.


For reference. See Overseer Campbell from Dishonored. He is the perfect archetypal example of what this champion would be. Overweight. Horribly corrupt. Kills whores he hides in his secret chamber. But acts all nice and benevolent in public eyes.

41 Comments

Caustic Crusader8 votes

Honestly, JarvanIV to me is a character that's a good guy specifically because Riot says he is. Seriously, his lore can be summed up very quickly as "he's awesome at killing anybody from Noxus", which really isn't all that good. I would honestly argue he's a villain simply portrayed as a good guy, it sort of vilifies Noxus, although the core concept of Noxus is might makes right, which isn't inherently evil. So basically, Jarvan loves killing absolutely anyone from Noxus, which is more or less just a tough place than explicitly evil (really closer to just being politically corrupt). Besides, Demacia is really another side of the coin in relation to Noxus. They're both warlike military states. It's just that Noxus has the balls not to hide it, but Demacia tries to play itself up as this whole "defender of the innocent" thing. Then you read Lux 's judgement and realize why it's completely hypocritical bullshit.

TL;DR: Jarvan's probably a bad guy, Noxus and Demacia are actually really similar.

4nth0l0gy1 votes

I've always liked that Jarvan's lore has him go a little off the deep end after capture, what with the dragonslaying episode. He's back and in control again, but to what extent, y'know?

JusticePauldrons3 votes

Well, they wouldn't call it that in Runeterra. But consider Demacia is pretty much based off your generic medieval fantasy setting, their belief system is likely going to incorporate a fantasy counterpart of christianity complete with typical fantasy christianity characteristics, mainly there's always going to be an inquisition of some sort aimed at a persecuted group, over-privileged clergy men, tax-collecting, horribly corrupt and wealthy members at the top, a slimy finger in politics, and extreme zealotry, all the operating under a facade of benevolence.

I am sorry but have you even read the lore on Demacia? It is practically a utopia

They don't worry about corruption in the government, because their laws are extremely punishing. They believe in nothing but helping your fellow man and punishing those who would put their own needs above everyone elses. It even states that they judge royal families and government official EVEN MORE HARSHLY because they are supposed to be the shining examples of Demacian culture and belief. There is no inquisition, there is no over-privldged clergy men (Where you even thought there was some religion to it, I will never know), no corrupt tax collectors or slimy politicians. It is the beacon of hope for humanity where everyone works towards a common goal, those who try to abuse the system quickly find themselves being the ones judged.

So no. I don't agree with this at all, we shouldn't have an 'Evil Demacian' just for the sake of saying we had one. Maybe an Ex-Demacian or something of the like, but someone who completely goes against everything the city state stands for just to give it the illusion it has more depth than 'best city evar'? Nope.

As a side note I will throw out there that yes, JarvanIV absolutely hates Noxus, and probably enjoys the idea of slaughtering tons of Noxians and Swain. But it isn't like I can blame the guy, he was captured, tortured, and nearly executed, so I can understand why he might have some personal baggage with Noxus. They claim to be the antithesis of everything Demacia stands for, they struck the first blow and they showed him nothing but the bad side of Noxian culture. So of course the guy probably has a vengeful zeal to killing them. Does that make him a bad guy? No, just a scarred dude in the middle of a war who happens to love what he does. It isn't like he is torturing Noxians in his basement.

Narasimha2 votes

Demacia is portrayed as a utopia yes, but it has its flaws too. They have mandatory conscription, and its pretty much implied that anyone who goes against their beliefs is either cast out or cut out. No second chances. Theres also very little ability to rise up and down in society like in a republic, because to do so would be 'selfish', and against Demacian principles.

JusticePauldrons1 votes

Many countries have mandatory conscription into the military, so a city state that is constantly at war with another one seems like a likely candidate for such a rule. Mandatory conscription would also help educate the majority of the population on Demacian culture and beliefs, and tell the public what it is they are fighting for and why, after three years of service the citizens are free to do whatever it is they want, but many CHOOSE to remain in the military. Attempting to rise up in place is also not an issue, citizens are free to do whatever they please after leaving the military and the entire concept of the city state is helping one another get ahead in life. Social and Politics wise there is no higher rank than citizen in the government (even the Noble Houses are treated as regular citizens) so there isn't anything above that to strive towards. You will never be better than your fellow citizens, maybe more well off, but certainly not treated as superior to them.

That isn't to say there aren't people who can rise up in some way or another through service and dedication. Noble Houses make an excellent example of this. Garen and Lux family have risen to a sort of legendary status simply because of their families dedication to military service and exemplary fighters who embody all of Demacian belief. Fiora house is known simply as some of the most elite duelists on the planet. So being good and dedicated to something obviously does lead to some level of rewards.

It pretty much comes down to the needs of the many vs the needs of the few. Do you want to be the best damn baker in the world? Go for it, you can strive to become the best baker in the world and through hardwork and dedication accomplish your goal, you wouldn't be in trouble for trying to better yourself, but likely rewarded for it. But if you decided the best way to become the greatest baker was to eliminate the competition, then you are in for it.

KalastRaven3 votes

We need a hero from the Shadow Isles. It could be Batman.

Nagirte2 votes

In general there aren't many champions who go against the morals of their nation/community outside of maybe Ionia with Zed and Diana with the Solari. The freljord sort of has this but thats more because its divided between 3 queens who all have different ideals of what the freljord should be.

We don't have any noxians who are kind or caring or choose not to be as pragmatic and greedy as the others, any zaunites who care about their subjects, anyone from demacia who actively rebels against their system of draconian justice (demacians aren't all that "nice" if you dig deeper into it).

There's no one on the shadow isles trying to cleanse it, and no one in bilgewater who isn't a pirate. The bilgewater one is more understandable seeing as this is more of a community where people come and go as they please as opposed to a more rigid social structure of a nation where it may be hard or impossible for some who are born into it to leave. Although this concept alone would be good justification for the above juxtapositions. Someone born into one of the noble demacian families may find it difficult to leave because of a difference in philosophy without outright committing treason. Same with Noxus. Or someone who is born into poverty may find it financially impossible or detrimental to leave even though they don't agree with the direction/laws of the society in which they live.

Siachi1 votes

There's no one on the shadow isles trying to cleanse it

Well Maokai's lore got reworked (not that I'm happy about it) into being a nature spirit from the Shadow Isles before they got all undead and he's trying to cleanse it, if that counts.

and no one in bilgewater who isn't a pirate

Technically, Miss Fortune is a bounty hunter, and she has a tooltip that calls her a Pirate HUNTER, not a pirate herself. She actually hates pirates because they killed her mother. Also Fizz is practically a bilgewater citizen now, even if he didn't come from there originally.

Just because I can't think of anything right now, I'll give you the Noxus, Demacia, and Zaun ones however.

Nagirte1 votes

I actually haven't read her lore but just assumed she was because absolutely everything about Miss Fortune's design and attitude screams "YARRRR!!!" regardless of her lore.

Winged Hussars2 votes

In general there aren't many champions who go against the morals of their nation/community outside of maybe Ionia with Zed and Diana with the Solari. The freljord sort of has this but thats more because its divided between 3 queens who all have different ideals of what the freljord should be.

We don't have any noxians who are kind or caring or choose not to be as pragmatic and greedy as the others, any zaunites who care about their subjects, anyone from demacia who actively rebels against their system of draconian justice (demacians aren't all that "nice" if you dig deeper into it).

There's no one on the shadow isles trying to cleanse it, and no one in bilgewater who isn't a pirate. The bilgewater one is more understandable seeing as this is more of a community where people come and go as they please as opposed to a more rigid social structure of a nation where it may be hard or impossible for some who are born into it to leave. Although this concept alone would be good justification for the above juxtapositions. Someone born into one of the noble demacian families may find it difficult to leave because of a difference in philosophy without outright committing treason. Same with Noxus. Or someone who is born into poverty may find it financially impossible or detrimental to leave even though they don't agree with the direction/laws of the society in which they live.

There is someone from the Shadow Isles trying to cleanse it. Maokai . Also, Riven has a very different idea for what power is than modern Noxus. Graves and MissFortune are from Bilgewater, one is a former conman and the other is a pirate hunter. Janna and Blitzcrank are from Zaun and legitimately cares about people. Every faction has iconoclastic characters EXCEPT Demacia. But even then, Quinn has a distinct distaste for high society, unlike other Demacians.

The5lacker2 votes

Religion more or less not a factor in the world of Runeterra, but even if it was...what purpose would such a champion serve other than checking off an Affirmative Action checkbox?

How about rather than going "WE NEED X CHARACTER BECAUSE WE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE X CHARACTER!" you, I dunno, actually come up with some sort of character.

SecretAgentHulk3 votes

what purpose would such a champion serve other than checking off an Affirmative Action checkbox?

IDK but prolly one purpose would be to be interesting. Also how is this affirmative action?

How about rather than going "WE NEED X CHARACTER BECAUSE WE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE X CHARACTER!" you, I dunno, actually come up with some sort of character.

Because it's OK to just have ideas. There is no rule of anything that says if you see a problem (and OP didn't even describe a problem) you have to find a solution (and the idea he posits does answer the problem of why anyone wouldn't want to live in Demacia).

Nagirte3 votes

Because having most or all champions from an area have similar or the exact same ideals is extremely boring and unrealistic.

And religion does exist but it's more in the form of cults or hero worship. The Solari and Rakkor more or less fall into this category. Sion is supposed to have almost cult worship in Noxus. I honestly believe the only reason religion is as subtle in Runeterra is because Riot doesn't want to risk alienating players or pissing someone off because they find the created religion offensive because it has a couple parallels with their religion. (see the Golden Compass controversy a few years ago)

The Neverworld1 votes

Look up on Elise and Leona. Both believe in a god. Elise believes in the Spider God for example, thus is a religion, more or less.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Look up on Elise and Leona. Both believe in a god. Elise believes in the Spider God for example, thus is a religion, more or less.

Leona maybe. Elise...not quite what I'm going at here. Elise is more like a cult than a religion.

Yes yes they're practically the same thing in real life. But I'm sure you get the idea.

JusticePauldrons3 votes

Not really, a religion and a cult are the same thing. If you are trying to say there is a difference between an ORGANIZED religion and a cult then sure, one has more people and some kind of recognized rules, but other than that? Both are just beliefs.

UncensoredAngel1 votes

No there different

JusticePauldrons2 votes

They're*

In functionality? No, it is just people practicing their religious beliefs, the only thing that defines a religion as a cult is if they are are small and often practice something outside of the 'norm'. Cults have gotten big though and become organized religions before, so it isn't exactly accurate to say they aren't the same thing. One is popular, one isn't.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

They're*

In functionality? No, it is just people practicing their religious beliefs, the only thing that defines a religion as a cult is if they are are small and often practice something outside of the 'norm'. Cults have gotten big though and become organized religions before, so it isn't exactly accurate to say they aren't the same thing. One is popular, one isn't.

No, the distinction between the two is referring to fictional depictions.

Real life, hardly different. Both are just grown men taking myths and fairy tales really really seriously.

But in the fictional world, "Cults" and "Religion" are vastly different. And even among Religions you then separate it into "savage religion" and "holy religion".

Warcraft 3 is by far the best example.

UD=Cult HU=Holy Religion Orc and NE=Savage Religion

The Human faction is based in Lordran, which is to Warcraft 3 what Demacia is to LoL. They have Paladins, priests, they constantly refer to "the light" as a good thing. They smite their foes. They wield maces. Fight against undead. Have churches and all that shit. In other words, fantasy Christianity.

Undead faction have cults, like they literally call it one. They're seedy, underground, they perform undead rituals, demon summoning, etc. They wear dark robes, hide their faces, they're afraid of light, all that predictable stuff. LoL's parallel is something along the lines of whatever Malzahar is trying to pull off, or Elise' thing.

Speaking of mentioning Warcraft 3 in this very thread.

Lord Garithos is a great example of what this champion could be. Disgustingly racist, tries to commit genocide on all the elves, pro-human to an extreme degree, but fiercely loyal to his country Lordran.

JusticePauldrons2 votes

What in the world compelled you to bring up warcraft? Your example doesn't fit. Lordran is not Demacia. Demacia is not Lordaeron. Human kingdom does not = shining utopia. Lordran has a very set religion, Demacia does not.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

What in the world compelled you to bring up warcraft? Your example doesn't fit. Lordran is not Demacia. Demacia is not Lordran. Human kingdom does not = shining utopia. Lordran has a very set religion, Demacia does not.

They're not exactly the same thing. But they're very clearly inspired by the same things. Which is no surprise as LoL only exists because of a Warcraft 3 custom map. Even at this point there are still several elements of LoL that aesthetically comes directly from the game it was born in. Just look no further than Gragas and Corki...ESPECIALLY CORKI. Demacia and Lordran may be two different places, but they're the same in the same way Gondor or Rohan is the same to some random Game of Thrones kingdom or some kingdom from DnD or Eragon, etc.

I didn't think I'd have to explain something as simple this...

JusticePauldrons2 votes

Of course you don't and no one ever said you had to nor asked for it. Apparently every human kingdom in every fantasy lore is a simple copy of one another then, no matter how radically different they may be. Saying they are the same as Gondor and Rohan is saying they are similar because....humans live there? (seriously though, Gondor and Rohan are totally different places with radically different military, social ladders, education and government)

Lordaeron and Demacia are not the same place, they don't have the same government or belief systtem so they would not have the same issues. I think the closest thing you would get to a 'racist' Demacian is JarvanIV and that is more or less because the people he is against have stood against all the ideals of his city state from the beginning, are responsible for killing his family in the past, kidnapped him, tortured him and tried to have him executed. So you can see why the guy might be a bit miffed.

As for a corrupt Demacian, it just doesn't fit with the established lore of the city state. Anyone who would challenges they ideal is dealt with, the government officials hold no rank over citizens and the noble houses are even on the same level. Anyone who was publicly known to act contradictory to that mindset would be exiled, jailed, or worse.

So maybe you could try an EX-Demacian someone so zealous and hateful that they abandoned the city-state (or was exiled from it for being too cruel) and is attempting their own form of how they think it should work. Like an opposite version of Riven

KiteMeGood1 votes

{quoted}

Of course you don't and no one ever said you had to nor asked for it. Apparently every human kingdom in every fantasy lore is a simple copy of one another then, no matter how radically different they may be. Saying they are the same as Gondor and Rohan is saying they are similar because....humans live there? (seriously though, Gondor and Rohan are totally different places with radically different military, social ladders, education and government)

Lordaeron and Demacia are not the same place, they don't have the same government or belief systtem so they would not have the same issues. I think the closest thing you would get to a 'racist' Demacian is JarvanIV and that is more or less because the people he is against have stood against all the ideals of his city state from the beginning, are responsible for killing his family in the past, kidnapped him, tortured him and tried to have him executed. So you can see why the guy might be a bit miffed.

As for a corrupt Demacian, it just doesn't fit with the established lore of the city state. Anyone who would challenges they ideal is dealt with, the government officials hold no rank over citizens and the noble houses are even on the same level. Anyone who was publicly known to act contradictory to that mindset would be exiled, jailed, or worse.

So maybe you could try an EX-Demacian someone so zealous and hateful that they abandoned the city-state (or was exiled from it for being too cruel) and is attempting their own form of how they think it should work. Like an opposite version of Riven

Maybe corruption was too strong of a word. A celebrated Demacian General who had saw the Demacian mindset fall to the Void, Shadow Isles and watched as the Noxians grew stronger felt that he could do better as a someone out on the march. So he goes out on the lone march, with only his mace and shield in hand he went on a campaign of his own. Calling it the "crusade of mercy", during this time Zaun and Noxus reports a number of villages mysteriously coming under attack by a band of Demacian sellswords that none of the authorities were able to confirm due to the brutality inflicted on them and by the time the General returned, he had become a zealous man. His passion renewed by the blood of innocent Zaunites/Noxians and willing to fight with new vigor against the threats that would dare bloody Demacia's nose. To the average Demacian they fight to protect, he fights to stop the problem at the source.

The idea is that he views anyone caught in the scourge's schemes as already dead and focuses on killing the guilty party involved. He ignores the screams of help from people under attack by the legion of undeath so he can take care of the main necromancer. He calls for total war against the injust and would leave Demacia's walls undermanned so the future of Demacia can live free of Noxians. He would put Garen to death for his questionable relationship with Katarina, stating that if he loves the Noxian whore so much, why not love her twisted sister as well.

ULTRAF0RCE2 votes

You could argue that there are very few non evil Demacians since what I just read from http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Demacia makes me think that Demacia is supposed to be a North Korea that has allies whereas Noxus is like South Korea, with the whole anyone can attain high ranking threw power and south Korea being a capitalism system where if you can find the right product even if you come from the streets you can be successful. Also the fact that both city states have mandatory military service.

PickleBabah1 votes

Ooh. Sounds great! For another reference, look up The Pontiff from Vindictus Just to support him, they could have someone who influences him, as his right-hand man, whose intentions are neither for Noxus nor Demaica, but his personal benefit of name and glory.

Kuzja11 votes

I like the idea of an evil Demacian. I wonder if the same thing could happen to Noxus where they would have a good guy Noxian. Wait, do they have a good guy Noxian?

5G8Nri0B542 votes

I like the idea of an evil Demacian. I wonder if the same thing could happen to Noxus where they would have a good guy Noxian. Wait, do they have a good guy Noxian?

That'd be Riven.

Well, good girl Noxian.

Audiomancy2 votes

I like the idea of an evil Demacian. I wonder if the same thing could happen to Noxus where they would have a good guy Noxian. Wait, do they have a good guy Noxian?

That'd be Riven.

Well, good girl Noxian.

I thought Riven was still pretty much evil, just no longer associates herself with Noxus? To quote her lore:

She was **ruthless and efficient **as a warrior, but her true strength lay in her conviction. She entered battles without any trace of doubt in her mind: no ethical pause, no fear of death.

Seems pretty bad to me. Although it does use past tense, so it's possible she's reformed.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

She was **ruthless and efficient **as a warrior, but her true strength lay in her conviction. She entered battles without any trace of doubt in her mind: no ethical pause, no fear of death.

Seems pretty bad to me. Although it does use past tense, so it's possible she's reformed.

Asides from the fact that it's using past tense as you pointed out, "ruthless and efficient" and "lacking ethical pause" aren't necessarily evil traits themselves. Especially the latter where you can do plenty of good because of that trait.

Think of the well-meaning heroic scientist who goes beyond society's moral and ethical boundary to create something magnificent to benefit mankind, or save mankind by devising a cure to a plague...but only after breaking some serious ethical codes.

JusticePauldrons1 votes

I am going to go with the past tense thing there. It implies that this was how shes used to be. She once believed whole-heartedly in the the ideals of Noxian government. But after her unit was killed by friendly fire and cowardly methods such as poison and chemical weapons she found herself questioning her devotion to Noxus. She didn't believe in what they had to say anymore, and just by playing her and listening to her quoted you can tell she is VERY haunted by her past. I think morals are probably high on her list compared to when she was just a good little soldier following orders.

With that in mind, she still believes Noxus can be redeemed, and still believes in their codes of 'survival of the fittest' but doesn't believe that includes cowardly underhanded methods of warfare. She is the kind of person who would go into a town and defeat every single defender just to show she is the strongest, but not the kind to go cutting the heads of children.

3ngin33r1 votes

Demacia is evil, its like the plot twist in movies

Unidad1 votes

*non corrupt pope.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

j4 was never evil. at worst hes just arrogant. just as fiora.

it was swain and leblanc who started the war between demacia and noxus. because they kidnapped j4, and leblanc impersonated him and dealt the first strike against swain, that started the conflict.

it was basically all staged, to get swain into the position as grand general.

how would an evil demacian character even fit with the rest of them? while there are some grey areas with their society, and they can get overzealous, most of them are about protecting the weak.

the only way this would work, was if there was a character who would in principle follow the demacian ideals, but be severely misguided. maybe someone who would aim for the total annihilation of noxus and zaun, the scum and innocent civilians alike.

That'd be Riven.

Well, good girl Noxian.

riven isnt good either. shes just a bully like the rest of the noxians and believes in the principle "might makes right". she still aims for war and conquest. the only thing she despised were the "cowardly" methods singed used with chemical weapons, during the invasion.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

j4 was never evil. at worst hes just arrogant. just as fiora.

I never explicitly stated he was evil, but rather it felt like he could come closest among all Demacians. Or had the potential if Riot wanted to go that path. His background story made it really sound like Riot had some further plans for him...but they completely forgot about his storyline and just left it there.

how would an evil demacian character even fit with the rest of them? while there are some grey areas with their society, and they can get overzealous, most of them are about protecting the weak.

the only way this would work, was if there was a character who would in principle follow the demacian ideals, but be severely misguided. maybe someone who would aim for the total annihilation of noxus and zaun, the scum and innocent civilians alike.

Think Garithos from Warcraft 3. Lordran is essentially that game's version of Demacia as far as thematics go. He's very much a Lordran warrior, but just try to argue that he isn't a vile racist scum.

Or take Thaddeus Campbell from Dishonoured. Preaches the commandments of the religion he runs. But secretly he purposefully breaks each and everyone of them as his own little private joke. Kills whores he buys. And overall a brute who commands his followers to do prosecute and even slay those who follow a religion that isn't his own, or looks at him the wrong way.

In both these cases, both characters do follow their country's ideals, they may even represent it to a degree. But in such a way that it crosses to villainy in the pov of the protagonist.

hobomann21 votes

i have been mulling around a idea about a vigilante demican field-medic who went rogue after years of service, feeling like he's not helping in the right way. now using the diseases he treated and vast knowledge of the human body to cripple,maim and torture any he think's are evil or corrupt in his skewed perception of right and wrong

5G8Nri0B541 votes

There was Dreadknight Garen http://img3.leaguecraft.com/lol-splash-art/asset/wallpaper_760px_1272.jpg but then they did this to him http://www.ggwallpaper.com/file/231/1366x768/crop/dreadknight-garen-chinese.jpg

Well...that's a skin.

I'm sure Tryndamere was never a chinese warlord and some arabian warlord some other time.

Killstrado1 votes

Lol

tau431 votes

Demacia is supposed to be the pinnacle city-state of chivalry and JUSTICE! There are bad ones, but Demacia would never let them represent in the League.

Krizalid1 votes

I've made a fan concept of a traitor who has been raised in Demacia. But it wasn't met so nicely, was called childish and generic, so I droped it. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/Ij2v9a6f-champion-concept-frederick-the-spawn-of-pain

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Well considering one of the not-so-nice critique was a complete DICK about it, you can probably disregard some of them.

Also, "too kiddy": Aatrox Yasuo Teemo

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