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This isn't an elegant solution. But I think making Cassiopeia a Mutalisk is the only way to fix her

5G8Nri0B54··98 votes·8,946 views

For those who haven't play Starcraft (the first one) before. A Mutalisk is a Zerg unit whose function is just a generalist flying attack unit with absolutely nothing special about it. It shoots ground and air units, everything about it is average.

However it has the ability to "evolve" into one of two polar opposite units, either it becomes...

a Guardian (SLOW MOVING, FAST ATTACKING, LONG RANGED, GROUND-ATTACKING SIEGE UNIT)

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140512133726/starcraft/images/a/a1/Guardian_SC2_Art1.jpg

or

a Devourer (FAST MOVING, SLOW ATTACKING, SHORT RANGED, AIR-ATTACKING ANTI-AIR UNIT)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080617152231/starcraft/images/0/02/Devourer_SC1_Art1.jpg

So what does this have to do with Cassiopeia?

Quite simply, pre-rework she had two fanbase. One who liked her as a MEDIUM-LONG TO LONG RANGE AOE DOT POISON MAGE and one who liked her as a SHORT RANGE SINGLE TARGET DIRECT DAMAGE RAMBO. The rework deleted the former and forced her to be the latter. Controversy ensues.

There is an argument that had Riot reworked Cassiopeia into something more thematically consistent, the one closer to that of the Poison Mage archetype, there might still be a controversy coming from the latter fanbase who wanted to play AP Rambo. And since Riot seems rather defiant about her current direction, I feel one possible way to shoe-horn both fanbase's desired Cassiopeia is making her into some sort of Mutalisk-like snake-lady who either becomes a manipulative a venomous poison mage, or a mano-a-mano AP Rambo.

How would this be pulled off? There are different ways to go about it. I once JOKED about how Riot can give her a starting item akin to Viktor, and I guess they can give her Viktor 's old Passive where she spends gold to upgrade that item that gives her unique statistical bonuses that pushes her into the direction of her upgrade while augmenting her spells to fit such a direction. This started off purely as a JOKE...but...well...this rework. Just try to give it a chance.

Cassiopeia has two such different identities that are incompatible with one another, an all-in AP Rambo and a Poison Mage, yet her identity fits that of a Poison Mage more in part due to her appearance

So my suggestion

**!!!!!!!!!SUGGESTION ONE **Viktor !!!!!!!!!: Starting item will be "Snake Fang Bra", it offers something general for a mage. With 1000 gold, the player can evolve it into "Snakefang Battle Bandolier" where her bra is converted to a bandolier filled with fangs instead of ammo. This upgrade makes her into the short-ranged AP Rambo that the fans of the rework wants, where all her poison is removed and she's just there to machine gun fangs. But alternatively, her bra can also be converted into "Snakefang...One Piece" where she adopts a more lazy and regal look that show she doesn't plan on getting her hands dirty. This upgrade turns her into a Poison Mage that favours her longer ranged AoE DoT style the former fanbase yearns for who inflicts mass DoT, but lacks any real execution.

!!!!!!!!!SUGGESTION TWO Khazix!!!!!!!!! : Since her Passive is already an "Evolving Passive", as thematically unfitting as this was for a Poison Mage, however what if she didn't start off as a Poison Mage? But rather she starts off with a confused fledgeling snake-lady looking to embrace one of two identities?

In this case, same as above, but rather than an item, her "evolving" just has has shedding a layer of skin into something more reptilian underneath. She becomes a much buffer and "armoured-looking" python if player wishes for her to be an E-centric AP Rambo...or she sheds her skin to be a more lithe and vile-looking cobra or some other physically weak snake if player wishes for her to be something most thematically consistent to a Poison Mage that satisfies the former fanbase.

How are my suggestions Thematically Consistent compared to her current rework then? Well in both my suggestions, she doesn't start off as a Poison Mage anymore, but rather she's more of a confused disorganized generalist mage trying to get to come to grips that she lost her girl-parts for a tail.

But in both versions, Cassiopeia can choose to adopt either a more militaristic Rambo appearance or a more seductive and cowardly gas-spewing appearance.

Cassiopeia solved. **BOTH SIDES HAPPY. **

PS - can anyone help me think of something better than "Snakefang One Piece"? It should be something that screams "I'm an haughty rich bitch who would sooner have a servant spoonfeed me than move my nail-polished hands".

112 Comments

TheKingDodo14 votes

But how would we build spires when we don't even have drones in league D:

5G8Nri0B5414 votes

Solution: Infested Terran Trundle Skin will create Spires with his pillar (and a tied up Duran as his club)

ArtoriusIV2 votes

But then we need commander centers... and that would hurt wards so much all of the scans. And besides, who would throw infest trundle? Rek Sai the Zerg champion?

Essorance8 votes

Khazix style evolutions - Good Syndra style evolutions - Good Stacking passive style evolution - get the fuk out of here

Rebonack5 votes

This is a pretty swell idea.

Upon hitting a particular milestone, Cass gets the option to Evolve her E or her Q depending on whether she wants the short or long range play style.

5G8Nri0B546 votes

It prooooobably wouldn't be a stack-based milestone though as I have difficulty seeing how this can be divided into 3 separate milestones based off stacks. And I want Cassiopeia players to be able to experience their targeted fantasy ASAP.

Something a little more consistent I feel. Something that probably will only happen once ala Viktor's Augments, only something more thematically fitting.

I joke about the item being a bra...but...I can't believe a joke is going to be the best solution to fixing her. :/

Desmond Law3 votes

I made my version. I went for a version that embodied the "sink your fangs into the enemy until its dead" kind of snake.

Deadly Cadence: When Cassiopeia kills a unit, she gains a stack of Deadly (max 3). Her next spell that hits a champion will consume one stack of Deadly and place it on the champion (once per spell, does not have a timer). Cassiopiea's poisons on Champions with Deadly will last an additional second for each Deadly stack on the champion. When an enemy champion reaches 3 stacks, the stacks will begin fading away, taking 5 seconds after which all 3 stacks are removed. During the 5 seconds, Venomous Strike will refresh on striking the unit.

Venomous Strike: Cassiopeia lunges a short distance, dealing damage to the first unit struck. If the unit is already poisonsed, Cassiopeia will dash to her original location, charming the unit. If the unit is not poisoned, Cassiopeia poisons it and she gains bonus movespeed.

Caustic Venom: Cassiopeia spits caustic venom at a direction. The ground becomes corrupted and deal damage to units in it as the AoE increases. Units that take damage from this poison will continue taking damage after leaving. Units hit by the initial blast are blinded for 1 second.

Aspect of the Serpent: Cassiopeia commands a snake to a target location. The snake will bite the first target it sees, prioritizing champions, and poison the unit. If the snake bites a poisoned target, this spell is refreshed.

Petrify: Cassiopeia's gaze for the next 10 seconds will place stacks on units that face her. Units facing Cassiopeia will gain a stack of Stone every .5 seconds and on the third stack, the unit(s) will be stunned and dealt damage. Cassiopeia's spells will deal true damage instead of magic damage to petrified units.

supes the lost2 votes

You know, this sounds fun to fight against, dodging poison and flying snake ladies with a stun cc that is completely avoidable with skill.

Jamnon3 votes

Riot Stashu: No. It's more fun to wait to feel powerful. I know I'm right.

Meanwhile every other champion?

AquariusGine5 votes

10/10 will buy Snakefangs bra,

I'm all for it if they can allow players to choose between poison and twin fangs ;D

SmokingPuffin4 votes

I think Kha'Zix showed that evolutions work really well mechanically for making a lategame power champion. I think this sort of thing does the power spike thing much better than a stacking passive.

I don't think they will choose to do a bunch of visual changes (like they did with Kha'Zix) because it's bad for her existing skins.

I'm not wild about having a split kit. I feel like "you can play this way or that way" always ends up with this way being better, and that way taking collateral damage from nerfs intended for this way.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

As former Viktor and occasional temporary Khazix main, I can instantly tell you what went wrong with those two champion's evolving designs that I specifically made sure to avoid with the Cassiopeia suggestion I made.

You are correct with those champions, only a single style is ever viable 99% of the time. Death Augment for Vik, and whatever the **** the latest round of nerfs/re-balances Kha received in the last patch that screwed around with him. There is always only one path.

Why? Because no matter how you evolve those two champions, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE THAT CHAMPION with only slight differences. What I propose is that Cassiopeia becomes two separate beings that are as different as a Devourer is from a Guardian.

Kha'zix will always be that squishy melee AD Assassin. Viktor will always be the AP mage with a short-ranged nuke and long ranged laser poke. Some abilities are a little more emphasized than others. Because of that, it makes it really easy for players to figure out what is the only optimal path to take because they're the same champions with slightly different bells or whistles.

But the Mutalisk. Can you tell me which is strictly better? A Guardian or the Devourer? Cassiopeia with a lingerie made of fangs or a Cassiopeia with a bandolier full of fangs? Cassiopeia the venomous snake or the big buff python Cassiopeia?

You can't because they can not be compared. And this is what differentiates my Mutalisk-suggestion from Riot's past failed evolution designs. A Mutalisk's evolutions can not be compared because the are two fundamentally different and opposite beings that have shades of their predecessor (flying assault-type unit), but they diverged so much to occupy completely different niches, and THAT is the Mutalisk's strength, their sheer adaptability.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

But the Mutalisk. Can you tell me which is strictly better? A Guardian or the Devourer?

Well, as it happens, devourers suck and hardly anyone makes them.

I get your point though.

Cassiopeia with a lingerie made of fangs or a Cassiopeia with a bandolier full of fangs? Cassiopeia the venomous snake or the big buff python Cassiopeia?

In principle, these two modes could be balanced in an either/or mode. I still worry about the collateral damage problem.

And this is what differentiates my Mutalisk-suggestion from Riot's past failed evolution designs.

I think Kha'Zix turns out to be quite a successful design, just not in the way we hoped. The original idea was to have many different evolution orders leading to many different playstyles. What we ended up getting was one obviously best order that nonetheless provided awesome and impactful power spikes, building to a great late game identity.

they diverged so much to occupy completely different niches, and THAT is the Mutalisk's strength, their sheer adaptability.

It would be awesome if League supported the ability to adapt to whatever is happening in that particular game. In practice, we've never really gotten there. Champions rank skills in a more or less preset order, and there's only a little flexbility in itemization for most champions as well.

5G8Nri0B545 votes

What we ended up getting was one obviously best order that nonetheless provided awesome and impactful power spikes, building to a great late game identity.

Yeah that's why I personally consider it a failed evolution design. If I were them, I'd have gone a little further and gave Kha'zix the flexibility to become a different champion based off what he evolves. Like an AD Assassin, a bruiser, tank, etc....this may involve reducing the total number of times he can evolve down to two or one, but I'd trade that over to thematic consistency any day.

Also, have you ever EVER seen any Kha'zix that has never evolved those wings before?

It would be awesome if League supported the ability to adapt to whatever is happening in that particular game. In practice, we've never really gotten there. Champions rank skills in a more or less preset order, and there's only a little flexbility in itemization for most champions as well.

eh, gotta start somewhere.

Years after they released Lee Sin the blind monk, they finally developed a "blind-sight" system that would have been perfect for Lee Sin...on Rek'sai.

Might as well start this truly meaningful evolution thing with Cassiopeia since Viktor and Kha'zix obviously didn't work out. Plus Stashu is really focused on making her an evolving champion anyways with that Passive of his.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Yeah that's why I personally consider it a failed evolution design. If I were them, I'd have gone a little further and gave Kha'zix the flexibility to become a different champion based off what he evolves. Like an AD Assassin, a bruiser, tank, etc....this may involve reducing the total number of times he can evolve down to two or one, but I'd trade that over to thematic consistency any day.

I think Kha'Zix is working quite well as he is. Possibly what you want is cool too. I would say he's not a priority to change though, I have so many champions on my hit list before him.

Also, have you ever EVER seen any Kha'zix that has never evolved those wings before?

Hmm, that didn't quite hit the mark.

Years after they released Lee Sin the blind monk, they finally developed a "blind-sight" system that would have been perfect for Lee Sin...on Rek'sai.

New champion design this year has been far more innovative and effective than rework design. Clearly their best designers work on the new champions rather than the reworks.

5G8Nri0B545 votes

I think Kha'Zix is working quite well as he is. Possibly what you want is cool too. I would say he's not a priority to change though, I have so many champions on my hit list before him.

Yeah but you know that he's going to get revamped again in just a few patches. Having been a former Kha'zix player, I can assure you he gets more unnecessary changes than a drunken rich girl in a shopping mall.

MEMEME6701 votes

Yeah that's why I personally consider it a failed evolution design. If I were them, I'd have gone a little further and gave Kha'zix the flexibility to become a different champion based off what he evolves. Like an AD Assassin, a bruiser, tank, etc....this may involve reducing the total number of times he can evolve down to two or one, but I'd trade that over to thematic consistency any day.

Problem with this is the evolved forms can't be better than any given champion at the role they take, and they usually don't want to be all that close in powerlevel either.

Like, if Short Range Cassiopeia is stronger than Ryze once she gets there, there becomes no reason to ever pick Ryze. And even if there is some small reason, the change would essentially bully him out of his spot.

And, given what I've seen cassio players act like, I do not think they would be willing to accept a rework that was able to choose between two forms but also not extremely strong in either of them.

ZootSuitZombie3 votes

Like, if Short Range Cassiopeia is stronger than Ryze once she gets there, there becomes no reason to ever pick Ryze. And even if there is some small reason, the change would essentially bully him out of his spot.

Riot has shown they do not mind creating new characters/kits that bully other champions out of viability. I consider myself an ADC main, so I'll use an example from bot lane:

Lucian...... Especially after his release and a round of buffs, why would anyone play MissFortune , Quinn , or Ezreal when Lucian has the strengths of all 3 of them combined? Everything these 3 champions do, Lucian can do it better and/or safer. (With the exception of a global ultimate - but still, Lucian's ulti has pretty incredible range for being a "short-range" adc)

Another example is Kalista vs Varus : Why pick Varus, when Kalista does more damage, has mobility with no CD, and has an ultimate that cannot be reduced by tenacity and can effect multiple enemies at once (rather than over time)?

Now, back to Cassiopeia: Frankly, I don't see any mage champion that Cass would push out of viability. If I use the Ryze vs Cassiopeia example, Late-game Ryze is much tankier than Cass, which seems like a pretty good reason to play him over her. Meanwhile, "Rambo" Cass is still a squishy, short-range, and immobile carry, regardless of damage. From what the OP was saying, it sounds like he does not plan on making "Rambo" Cass any tankier, just a style that promotes the fantasy of Cass as a late-game carry.

(On a side note, are there currently ANY mage champions that can duel 1v1 vs Ryze? Honestly, I think it would be kind of cool to see a champ like "Rambo" Cass go toe-to-toe with him)

Edgy AngstLord4 votes

I came to ridicule, but after reading this... This is brilliant. O_o. +1 to idea and /bump for Rito's attention.

Jamnon4 votes

I lost it at

makes her into the short-ranged AP Rambo that the fans of the rework wants, where all her poison is removed and she's just there to machine gun fangs.

LOL so true. If Riot wants a rambo make a rambo, jeeze.

ImpendingDeath4 votes

Getting rid of this tedious passive and actually attempting to balance Cassiopeia instead of this lazy "make her useless until 500 stacks" would actually make the character enjoyable to play and balanced.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

Rearrange her power so that she isn't 99% E would help too

FluxBound4 votes

What if her passive made it so you had to change play styles during the game? Early/mid game, poison would be the strongest while fangs ends up powerful in the end

5G8Nri0B547 votes

That's something that could be done without the need to take up a Passive.

Just look at Tristana. Obnoxiously effective AP nuker early game, obnoxiously safe yet devastating ADC late game.

ImHerVoice4 votes

until Q scales back to .85 AP at max rank.(or higher because.. riot said they wanted an APC hypercarry,... make it 1.0) cass will never be a good champion to me in any circumstance ever. That is all.

Digitality4 votes

This schism is a false dichotomy. She used to be both of these aspects of her "identity" all at once in the hands of a skilled Cass player that knew how and when to shift gears and it wasn't a problem. There was a midlane trinity once upon a time of Burst vs Sustained vs Utility. Her lack of mobility in the face of a growing repertoire of assassins forced her out of pick rotation but her DPS has always been ridiculously high. I really don't understand the problem you're fabricating?

She relied on DoTs for pre fight harass and wave clear, or to dissuade engages or chase. While in team fights she churned out major DPS with Twin Fangs on already DoTed up targets.

You won't see "poison Cass" come back though because damage is over tuned right now and pre-fight harass often means "No fight is going to happen because I just halved your health bar."

She's been steadily and indirectly buffed with changes in the design direction of the game so I'm not surprised Riot stealth nerfed her before she broke out with the new S5 scaling mechanic. They did it before with Sejuani early into Season 3 using a "rework" as an excuse while blaming low pick representation.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

They have literally no one but themselves to blame with how badly Sejuani ended up.

Giovarco3 votes

Rito, give him an award.

Tapu Fini3 votes

Snakefang Amulet perhaps? Focus?

I support this. Gives her some flexibility to change to what the match or team comp needs, or to what the player enjoys. This would be basically a full champion rework again, and would probably need model changes, new particles, and a looooooooot of testing, but this is by far the best thing I've seen for both sides of the cass playerbase.

Levyathyn3 votes

This isn't just a possible way to fix Cass for most, it's also a nice way to give her a bit more versatility for team comps.

Unedible3 votes

Snake Fang Bra.

Hue.

Saevum3 votes

Nice solution, seems really fitting. Upvoted!

Grand Eleven3 votes

First off: I love that you resisted the urge to devolve into a numbers war and just let the concept stand on it's own. I hope you get the feedback you deserve for this post.

From the two options i feel option 2 would be ideal, but I also think it would involve a massive overhaul that extends way beyond kit as to "do it right" we need update and double her model count (have her evolve into different/distinct skins depending on path chosen). Because of that reason alone I worry this doesn't have legs. But in execution it's flat out awesome ... almost like a mage version of Udyr who can pick an evolution akin to his tiger/phoenix.

What if we hit a middle ground by borrowing from the Udyr "too many slots, not enough ability points" and Syndra's "max an ability for an extra effect"? Then we could build a passive passive bonuses that encourage either the all-in style OR the DOT style depending on what ability Cass maxes .... but she can't max everything. THe point investment would either have to be deep to keep someone from investing in both at the cost of have zero points in another ability, or possibly lock out investing more than 5 in other abilities once the primary "specialty" was chosen (once 6h point goes into Q, you can no longer invest more than 5 into E to avoid you from just cannibalizing W points).

In the end it may not have the visual appeal/style you describe (she still just looks like cass) but we might be able to give her some kind of aura or visual to signify which passive she "earned" (toxic fumes vs super saiyan glow, I dunno) as a visual indicator to her opponents, and also be able to be balanced around two separate play styles? It also means with proper passive balancing she could "unlock" the desired play style as soon as that 6 point drops in ... aka level 8 or ? (I forget the rules for point placement)

In general I like the idea you're exploring, even if initially I was waiting for this to be a bad joke (was expecting "making cass into a mutalisk is about as relevant to her theme as what you gave us").

5G8Nri0B544 votes

First off: I love that you resisted the urge to devolve into a numbers war and just let the concept stand on it's own. I hope you get the feedback you deserve for this post.

Because it's not even a numbers issue, but one of design. I think I'm like the sole person around here who is even aware of it by now. People are all fine with her not being godawful, that she can be viable, that they're forgetting the real problem.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

In general I like the idea you're exploring, even if initially I was waiting for this to be a bad joke (was expecting "making cass into a mutalisk is about as relevant to her theme as what you gave us")

If I wanted to do that, I would have done THIS.

http://i.imgur.com/hLgqnSM.jpg

SmokingPuffin2 votes

With 1000 gold, the player can evolve it into "Snakefang Battle Bandolier" where her bra is converted to a bandolier filled with fangs instead of ammo.

Ok, this is hilarious

5G8Nri0B544 votes

{quoted} Ok, this is hilarious

Shit I forgot to proofread.

I initially intended it to be "Snakefang Battle Armor", but then I realize that a "Snakefang Bandolier" gets the idea across better so I changed it, but forgot to delete "Battle". Ah well, it's a "Battle Bandolier" now.

WolfBV2 votes

Post this on the subreddit as well.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

Yeah I don't have a reddit account...or tumblr...or Twitter...

Facebook is trying to get my attention often enough already.

If you do have a reddit account, feel free to copy paste it for me tho. thx

Auryiel2 votes

New passive Serpent's Curse Each time Cassiopeia deals damage with a spell (max once per second with Q or W in case they make them tick faster), she applies one stack of Serpent's Curse. This causes units to take bonus damage from Cassiopeia for a few seconds. The percentage of bonus damage is doubled for Twin Fang and the healing received from Twing Fangs is increased by 20% per stack of Serpent's Curse. Max 5 stacks.

Q - make it so the damage of Q only becomes a strong poking spell at 3+ stacks so on its own it's not as strong as it used to be (pre-rework I mean). Lower cooldown back to 3 seconds W - increase damage at later ranks E - put the healing from the current passive into the spell's baseline effects. Make the cooldown scale down by 0.5 second per level (5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds).

What this accomplishes, gameplay wise : If you want to, you can poke with your poisons and slowly build up your threat level until you are comfortable going in. You are rewarded for constantly hitting skillshots, but do not gain overwhelming pressure off one good Q. E-spam is higher risk, so the reward is higher thanks to the increased damage, increased rate at which you apply stacks of your passive and increased healing from hitting people with E. Also, you can once again build CDR and items with lower amounts of AP if you feel it's a good idea because your passive no longer makes you waste stats by buying certain items. This opens up more playstyles and allows for more player expression when playing as Cassiopeia. What kind of snake are you? Do you sink your fangs into your enemies as you coil around them and ensure one of you dies or do you slowly whittle them down, slinking back to the shadows when threatened?

Thematically, it makes more sense. Honestly, whoever thought Cassiopeia has an evolving, ascending thematic needs to heavily rethink how they approach champion design. Poisoning her enemies should not strengthen her, it should make them weaker. I think that much has become quite obvious through the countless discussions that have taken place on the forums and boards.

The numbers can be adjusted to make her more of a late-game champ and not a lane bully. All I really care about is making her more versatile and more thematically sound than she is right now. Free her from the shackles you've put around her wrists and let us decided how we want to play Cassiopeia.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

An old Passive suggestion I once had was taken straight from Pokemon's Toxic.

The Passive component literally becomes her Poison, as in her Q and W no longer inflicts damage, but rather applies her Passive which is the Poison, and I guess they'll apply it with a % modifier so that Q still hurts more than W. But this way upon being applied, the poison starts off doing little damage, but ramps up to something glorious in about...5-6 seconds meaning at the very least you need to land 2 Q's.

Her E then I once fantasized would be a very weak standard nuke whose strength comes from consuming all the stacked up poison to do extra damage and heal Cassiopeia based on the duration of the target's poison...except all the poison will then be gone and Cass will have to stack it all over again. And the Fang+bonus damage will ALWAYS be much lower than her poison's total damage over time.

Auryiel2 votes

Tbh that sounds nice but there's no way Stashu would go for anything that doesn't make E-spam good, so... yeah :|

I dunno, I guess I tried to come up with a solution that would meet him halfway

5G8Nri0B543 votes

Yeah well, considering there's been no word since 4.21...might as well throw suggestions out there in hopes that atleast something sticks, even if it's not the idea, but atleast some of the goals and intents comes to mind with future changes.

Plus...to keep letting him know Cassiopeia's problem isn't about her viability.

SolidPooh1 votes

Mutas DO have a special passive you know, ricochet shots that bounce to 2 additional targets

5G8Nri0B544 votes

Yeah but in the end they're still generalist flyers without any specialization ala Devourer or Guardians.

They're kinda half way between the two in everyway actually. That'd be Cassiopeia at the start of the game.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

Also now I'm afraid Stashu may mistake this thread as an attempt to get him to add a bouncing mechanic on her E...

Elphrihaim2 votes

{quoted}

Also now I'm afraid Stashu may mistake this thread as an attempt to get him to add a bouncing mechanic on her E...

Actually... if her E bounces maintained the poison amplification effect, that might work. It would allow her to spread the poison a bit better.

tbh that sounds cool, actually-- "... Twin Fang bounces to two additional units, dealing 50% damage to each. Enemies damaged by Twin Fang take 20% additional damage from Cassiopeia's Noxious Blast and Miasma for the next 5? seconds, stacking up to two times (40%)."

It also has the benefit of making the Twin Fang split up into Single Fangs, which would be neat to see in action.

Plus it would make her a huge AoE threat, which means she'd be going back towards her roots, as well as being MORE able to hypercarry (because she can blast multiple units at the same time!).

I agree that it's a concern, but adding a bounce mechanic to E while keeping the poison amplification mechanic would be very cool.

Shro0mie1 votes

With her current 30ish percent damage increase which allows me to go all in with against almost any champ at any lvl Andy late game fantasy e hitting for about 1k every half second which it's me at about 3+k dps with aoe poisons active putting me at prolly the highest dps in game with an aoe stun, I'm pretty fucking happy with the way she is now

5G8Nri0B543 votes

You're...kinda completely missing the entire point

Shro0mie1 votes

That she's no longer the hit 2 poisons at lvl 1 and force them to recall of die and that e has and always will have better scaling? To make her have 2 viable play styles the simple solutions would be to give q better scaling with q lvls 2-5 so leveling q over e is also a viable option

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