Kayn using mana doesn't make sense

kargish·8/7/2017, 3:42:26 PM·63 votes·4,141 views

It doesn't quite make sense to me why Kayn is a mana spending champion. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against him being limited by a form of resource, but I just don't understand why it had to be mana.

If we consider the fact that Kayn is the student of Zed, aka a student of shadow ninjutsu, then you'd think that Kayn would be taught the same techniques as Zed himself. Zed uses energy to use his shadow abilities, which is resource that focuses on physical limitations and is also used by all the other ninjas (Kennen Akali Shen (LeeSin?)). If we take a look at Akali she also uses energy as a resource, and also focuses on shadow ninjutsu as her title is 'The Fist of Shadow' after all.

So why does Kayn not use energy as a resource? Why does Kayn have to use mana, a form of energy that manifests on the users mind, to cast his shadow abilities? If Kayn decides to go shadow assassin, he gains the ability to spawn a living shadow just like Zed, but this one uses mana. Not to mention that Kayn/Rhaast use no form of magic when they use Q and W. Another thing I really feel like was a missed opportunity, is that Rhaast also uses mana and not a similar system like Aatrox does, or at the very least rage.

47 Comments

morris18/7/2017, 4:59:41 PM52 votes

If Darius needs mana just to rotate an axe around himself while Garen freely burps a giant sword out of the sky like nothing happened I'm not even surprised anymore.

aZ3R0n8/7/2017, 3:47:36 PM31 votes

I actually found myself agreeing with all your points. Very well written post, and maybe it's something that Riot should consider of it was overlooked during Kayn's creation.

Here's another idea: What if Kayn uses mana while in starting form, energy if he goes SA, and builds rage if he goes Rhaast? That would significantly change the way he is played.

GGLineaR8/7/2017, 6:25:12 PM9 votes

Why does Tristana shooting a cannonball at the ground to jump cost mana? Or throwing a bomb at you. That costs a ton of mana.

Why does Heimerdinger placing a turret kit that includes all its parts, and assembles itself cost mana?

Why does Poppy body slamming someone cost mana? A BODY SLAM.

Why does Singed picking you up and flipping you over his head cost mana. Or him drinking a fucking potion that he literally has in his hand.

Why does Warwick need mana to fucking bite you?

It's Riot's way of adding "counterplay" to a character without actually putting any thought into it.

MoldyCheese18/7/2017, 4:03:32 PM6 votes

its for the sole reason of, if he had no mana he would be broken beyond believing in lane, and energy would be gone in a flash.

Almighty8/8/2017, 12:02:43 AM5 votes

It would make more sense if Shadow Assassin Kayn used Energy and Rhaast used some form of Rage, but i imagine that that would be a nightmare to code.

Almighty.

KawaiiShroom8/7/2017, 3:54:54 PM4 votes

Nasus and renecton are brothers and hey nasus use mana and renecton use fury

Tommy PickleNose8/7/2017, 9:22:35 PM3 votes

I wouldn't look at mana at a lore standpoint really. Mana is more a gameplay thing than anything else. People have used Darius and I would even argue talon shouldn't have mana thematically either but they do for balance purposes. If kayn had energy he would have another thing tacked onto him for how he would get energy back which they obviously didn't want. He doesn't have a mechanic to get mana back other than regen so they would have to tack on another passive somewhere for him to get energy back like lee sin has on his passive or akali on q or Shen on his taunt of zed on his passive? I think it's his passive not sure.

Arakadia8/8/2017, 1:12:33 AM3 votes

Wouldn't mama which is more mental power then physical make more sense for a craft like shadow technique which requires much skill and concentration?

In addition, Rajasthani using a bloodwell mechanic wouldn't necessarily make sense. He is always eager for battle so rage doesn't make sense either.

Finally Riot doesn't want to give Kayn energy cause he'll be EVEN MORE SIMILR to Zed. Same with making Rhaast like Aatrox.

Aσtsuke8/7/2017, 7:33:17 PM3 votes

I know this makes no sense in LoL but usually "mana" refers to the energy of life, you use your mana for everything, magical or physical effort.

Don't expect logic in this game, where some champs are limited by mana, some by energy, and others by nothing at all, at the same time.

AirKingNeo8/7/2017, 9:09:14 PM2 votes

Maybe buff Shadow Assassin by changing his secondary bar to Energy and give him energy costs?

I mean, it wouldn't be bad and you wouldn't have the problem of energy being broken early game.

Starboyˇ8/7/2017, 4:56:04 PM2 votes

Honestly when i played Kayn his mana costs felt pretty low,actually thought he was resourceless lol

FantasySniper8/8/2017, 10:43:51 AM2 votes

They wanted him to be a jungler, but obviously you can't have anyone beating out LeeSin , so ergo they gated him with mana.

NineTailedMystic8/7/2017, 7:14:42 PM2 votes

Because energy is an awful design.

Bouncemaster Zac8/8/2017, 3:19:14 PM1 votes

To my knowledge, Energy is reserved for Ninjas. And LeeSin .

PaffWasTaken8/8/2017, 5:46:02 PM1 votes

Energy isn't linked to "ninjustsu" like you seem to think, but to Ionian training. Anyone who trained and fought in Ioniahas energy, the exceptions are: Yasuo , since he uses a forgotten martial art MasterYi , probably for the same reasons Jhin , because he dosen't have any kind of martial art at all Irelia , because she uses some kind of magic to control the blades Syndra , same reasons

Cowseed8/8/2017, 8:19:03 PM1 votes

spamming E and getting legit free heals would make his jungling "sub-par"

Gamukko Perkele9/7/2017, 1:55:09 AM1 votes

I hate that Kayn uses mana, they need to make him like Zed. Riot please! :´(

FlameHalbrdOkido8/7/2017, 11:04:01 PM1 votes

think about what a coding and balance NIGHTMARE it would be for Riot to make Kayn use mana, energy and rage. Kayn's a mix of human and Darkin, so i guess that mix makes him use mana. Also Kayn's not originally from Ionia, maybe thats the key.

Blade of Justic8/7/2017, 3:50:20 PM1 votes

I think it's because energy is rather difficult of a resource to play around in a kit when you look at builds and what not.

This might explain why Riot hasn't released an energy champ for quite a long time.

zero3568/8/2017, 2:13:03 AM1 votes

I'd like health costs I'd be interesting for an assassin and would fit the internal war aspect, with Kayn literally killing himself to fight Rhaast (or fighting back if you transformed into Rhaast)

You could lower costs for assassin form because Kayn won, so he can chill a bit Increase them for Reaper form, because he's doubling down on the sabotage if he can't outright win

This increase/decrease would also match the playstyle/build of the given form

General Esdeath 8/8/2017, 4:25:00 AM1 votes

Lore wise he's not a ninja and he's using his own physical weapon for his Q and W.

Oriyoki8/8/2017, 7:18:37 AM1 votes

Unpopular opinion: Kayn is too easy to snowball on and kill squishies on...

Yesterday I played him for the first time... I strated chicken camp both times and didn't get a leach. I cleared all camps without problem... on a level 15 account with no T3 runes.

KoKoboto8/8/2017, 12:35:01 PM1 votes

Kayn is a braindead champ who spams abilities off CD so they didn't want to make him use energy.

Fawksea8/8/2017, 2:14:45 PM1 votes

i thought this post was gonna be a stupid one about how he has no mana issues, even doe going raahst makes you able to spam spells a lot without dying so he does run out. but eh you have a point, doe i'd hate the feel of energy on kayn, it'd feel bad because like other ninjas, a full combo usually wastes all your energy