Ahri R on a charge system

OhWanderer·Feb 26, 2016·2 votes·721 views

R on a charge system similar to . I imagine it would be a quicker charge time though, but i feel that her identity, as a trickster-temptress-vixen, is brought out by this idea

22 Comments

VerxintFeb 26, 20164 votes

No, part of the idea with Ahri's ult is the opportunity cost - you use it, get up to 3 dashes, then dont have it.

If you force an ahri to ult, she's committed to the other uses. Then it's down. If it was on a charge system ahri would be unkillable

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

No, not really, ATM Ahri has to much "do this then wait" in her kit. She doesnt do significant amounts of damage and in fact she is immobile when she is comboing. So by giving her the option to re position her self more frequently your also giving her the option to do less damage in turn.

VerxintFeb 26, 20161 votes

Yeah you're really not getting it

Ahri having "now wait" parts of her kit are what make her balanced.

She's also not immobile when combing, w has no cast and Q speeds you up.

"Doesn't do significant amounts of damage" ok now you're just baiting.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

ugh .... telling someone they have to wait is a shitty excuse for a balance point

she is imobile to the extent you have to stay where you are while you comboing, yes afterwards you can use q to help get away, but for the most part having it so that during a fight ahri can blow a dash and either dis engage and get it back, or in a quick team fight use all of them then be vulnerable, because the fact she has moved so much means that her abilities arent focused on a single target, is not going to break ahri in any way, TBH i doubt it will do much at all other than get rid of some of that gap in her kit where your not doing anything.

VerxintFeb 26, 20161 votes

No, telling someone they have to wait is telling them that if they use X, they're vulnerable to Y for a duration. That's a good balance point. Does the player want to use X now and expose themselves, or do they want to hold onto it because Y is nearby? That's strategy.

And yes, it is going to break her kit, because that gap where she has lost access to a resource is part of how she is balanced. Again, the idea is once she commits to a cast of her ult, she commits to the entire CD. this means her ult is a meaningful choice instead of just "can I use it? use it".

Honestly from how you've posted it doesn't sound like you have any idea how game balance is done or how champion design works.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

yes but that gap is not really going away. You will still have a gap where she is low on them to catch her. I dont think you understand anything, do you know how long Akali's ult charge time is? It is not instant, in fact its so long that if you engage and get in over your head your fucked. "Honestly from how you posted, it doesnt sound like," YOU (Little Mac is OP) "have any idea how game balance is done or how," the champions im talking about works.

VerxintFeb 26, 20163 votes

First off, you're comparing two abilities in a vaccum ignoring the rest of the characters. Akali has to be full melee to do her damage and is meant to be a full assassin. Additionally, Akali's dash is targeted and can't be used in any direction she wants. Akali doesn't ever have the option of just dashing away. The reason Akali gets fucked when she overcommits its because she doesn't have the ability to dash out. Ahri does. Akali also gets resets on her dash, which adds a whole other dimension. Akali has a stealth cloud, Ahri has lots of AoE damage. Akali is energy, Ahri is mana. Akali gets free spellvamp as her passive, Ahri has to stack spell hits but gets AP scaling heal per target hit and can use it from range. There's a lot more to comparing two champions than one ability.

Anyway, you really still don't seem to get the point. Part of the fundamental balancing point of Ahri's ult being 3 successive ground target flash range dashes that lock on to anyone near you when you use them is the fact that activating the ability comes at such a dire cost. Since you don't seem to think her vulnerability gap is going away, let me try to make this clearer.

When Ahri ults, she has a 10 second period to use or lose the other two dashes. During this time she has a lot of options available to her - based on the ult's design, its pretty much the ball in your court. It gives you the ability to take on almost any fight and at most survive. This massive strength and playmaking ability is offset by the duration for which you have to apply it and the period of time you spend without access to it.

The former means that once you use the first dash, you have to decide and commit to the purpose of the other two. You are punished for using dashes as a cheap escape or a way to be safe. You don't have the option to just dash away whenever you mess up, because it goes on a long cooldown. You have to weigh if it's worth the 90 seconds of vulnerability to avoid death there. Do you honestly believe Ahri with a stacking ult would do anything but sit on 3 stacks (which would be 20 second recharge with a morello and rank 3 ulti) and dash away as soon as she was in danger, completely secure knowing that even if she does nothing for the next 10 seconds, she can go back in and dash away again? She already excels at doing damage from a safe position, that's part of her fundamental theme. But her saftey and positioning tools have to come at the opportunity cost of denying yourself them for later.

Currently, after one dash Ahri has 10 seconds of extreme power and 90 seconds of low power. If her dashes were on a charge system, After one dash she would have 30 seconds of high power and then be back to extreme power. After two dashes, she would have 60 seconds of average power.

The fact is her vulnerability gap would be effectively destroyed with this change, as an Ahri would have to have been forced to use all 3 ults in a short period just to survive in order to become as vulnerable as she currently is 10 seconds after her first ult. This is nothing but an incredible boost to safety and threat on a champion that already excels at being a slippery, hard to catch damage threat.

ModThe DjinnFeb 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

ugh .... telling someone they have to wait is a shitty excuse for a balance point

But...that's what cooldown is on every ability. A "you must wait this long before using this again" timer.

In Ahri's case specifically it's because they wanted a mobile mage without making her impossible to chase. Hence gating her mobility to a three charge time window system, making you really think before popping it to simply get away from a fight.

The Akali comparison really isn't apt, as Akali needs a target for every dash. Kassadin is the champion that functions closest to how you want Ahri's Ult to work, and that increase is reliability, availability, and utility is a DEFINITE buff that would require power to bencut somewhere in compensation.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

no Akali's ult is closest to how I want Ahri's ult to work. Akali uses her ult to engage and can easily be caught out if she doesnt do it right. Same with this concept for Ahri, it would allow you to engage more freely, but you can still get caught out if you fuck up. It is simply adding versatility to her ult so it feels better thematically.

Deep down i know everyone who is arguing against this are people who would hate ahri to be viable again and just want to keep her nurfed to fucking hell.

ModThe DjinnFeb 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

no Akali's ult is closest to how I want Ahri's ult to work. Akali uses her ult to engage and can easily be caught out if she doesnt do it right. Same with this concept for Ahri, it would allow you to engage more freely, but you can still get caught out if you fuck up. It is simply adding versatility to her ult so it feels better thematically.

But, because it doesn't require a target and Ahri is a kiting mage, it actually gives her a lot more than just versatility (which is already a form of power). It gives her a more reliable escape, a more reliable disengage, and a more reliable dodge. It's a pretty big boost in utility on a character who probably doesn't need it, and helps shore up one of the main intentional weaknesses in her kit.

Hence my Kassadin comparison: the ability doesn't have the limitations that Akali's has, and thus is useful for MUCH more than merely engaging.

Could Ahri use some love? Possibly. But I don't think this is the place to do that.

Deep down i know everyone who is arguing against this are people who would hate ahri to be viable again and just want to keep her nurfed to fucking hell

Ahri is actually one of my favorite mid-laners, and my main mid-laner for most of last season. :-P

LordGeovanniFeb 26, 20161 votes

there is no immobile when comboing players sit in 1 place for 0.8 seconds to use her combo thats not being immobile.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

it takes WAY longer to combo than that, especially if you are considering the fact that there might be FoW or some other factor keeping you from hitting E on the target you want.

LordGeovanniFeb 26, 20161 votes

'doing your combo' implies useing your skills from start to finish as fast as possible saying that you saving your E to hit a specific person doesnt apply though if you do it on the person you want as fast as you can it still does I also didnt factor in her highly mobile ultimate because you said immobile when doing combo

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

yes but ahri only excels at taking out squishies so you should be aiming for them. it takes longer than your implying because there are people trying to guard the squishies and things you have to factor in before comboing. So yes actually comboing doesnt take a lot of time but positioning and calculating how you will get out does, your charm doesnt go far either so getting to your target takes time too. interrupting it with an ult makes that process take longer.

LordGeovanniFeb 27, 20161 votes

i like how people always argue that ranged champs dont have enough range arhi does pretty good sustained damage to constantly poke tankier champions down league of legends has the squishiest tanks in all of gameing.

Wolfram OxfordFeb 26, 20162 votes

Sounds like a nice idea, I as somebody who loves to play Ahri would prefer this over her current ult. But I think with this change they would have to give her some damage nerf compensation but lower her ability cool downs to allow her to match the kind of play style charges would give her.

disregardableFeb 26, 20161 votes

Ahri probably doesn't need a buff.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

Not really a buff. She needs her kit adjusted because it doesn't feel right.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 26, 20161 votes

Terrible Idea, the cooldown on her ult is part of her vulnerability. And the last time riot decided to make her less vulnerable was the move speed change, and we all see how well that worked out for her balance.

Keep it the way it is, the change wouldn't make her kit anymore flexible or cause her to do anything she can't already. It would how ever potentially allow her to always keep a dash for more safety, and the last thing she needs is more safety.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

They didnt just do that, they adjusted her entire kit so she did slightly more damage and she got move speed off her Q. Changing her ult to this would actually make it easier to kill an ahir in essence because you dont have the escape always there if your using your dashes for other reasons. Saying that the cool down may have been the wrong direction on my part, maybe slightly longer is better.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 26, 20161 votes

They reverted all damage buffs she recieved in the following patch to 5.2.

The only thing that hits harder in her kit is the charm, which doesn't matter anyway since riot seems to want Ahri players to be successful with only three spells any way.

Very few champions in this game have more than 1 dash, even having only one up is a big enough escape tool for Ahri combined with the ranged stun and movement speed boost.

OhWandererFeb 26, 20161 votes

Yes ahri can run away, but how is that contributing to the team is the point. By putting her R on a charge system you can use one in a fight with out worrying about wasting the others through either running because you aimed it badly or just not needing it. At the same time, it also requires you to play smart in that your not dashing into a jng buff and taking damage from it or someone hiding in it and you also have in fact used that dash so if they decide to pick you off that will be easier.