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SummonersLab, Part 6: Wits End

Lord Desert··4 votes·982 views

Welcome back folks, we are now taking a closer look at Wits End and possibly getting it back in the inventorys! http://imgur.com/7peBzwA

Currently those are the topics and their (hopefully) release date: SummonersLab, The Introduction Here SummonersLab, Part 1: An additional Crit Item Here SummonersLab, Part 2: Crit Algorithm Improvement Here SummonersLab, Part 3: Tower Changes Here SummonersLab, Part 4: Ohmwrecker Here SummonersLab, Part 5: Support Role Improvement(1) Here SummonersLab, Part 6: Wits End Here SummonersLab, Part 7: Smite Buffs Here SummonersLab, Part 8: Plants Here SummonersLab, Part 9: ** Support Role Improvement (2)** _ Here _ SummonersLab, Part 10: ** General Improvements (1)** Here _ SummonersLab, Part 11: ** General Improvements (2)**_ Here

Ill put links to the posts here, so you can easily view all of them.

Introduction:

This one will be way more open and we will look at a wider range of possible changes then with the Ohmwrecker! But we will still leave at it around its current idea/place, we will not make an 180° turn and make it an Ap item or so. If you want to go to the Ideas directly scroll down till you see this:

Ok, lets get startet!

#1. Analysing Wits End

Wits stats are:

  • 2500g cost
  • 40% As
  • 40 Mr
  • 40 OnHitMagicDmg
  • Passiv: 5 Mr steal (25 max) for 5sec onhit.

And now hold your horses! Costefficency: 108% without the passiv, and full 164% with maxed passiv stacks! ON TOP:_ OnHitDmg_ is valued lower then normal AD, but if you dont have any AD ratios we can value it as if it would be AD! So that boosts us to full 180% Costefficency! Why are you still reading? BUY IT NOW!

Oh, and did you think that was all? Nope! You can technicaly reduce the Mr from 5 guys! not just 1! So the finally max possible Costefficency is: Are you ready? Sitting straight? having something to grab on? Here it is: #329%!!!

Yes, this is not a joke, not a hoax! it is possible to get 329% costefficency! Getting all 5 stacks on 5 targets (which will requieres atleast a runans! And this is extremely unlikely but possible) And this counts the MrReduction as MagicPen, but magic reduction technicly more powerful since it can reduce the Mr below 0. As we see the stats and especially the costefficency is relativly decent, bit on the weak side but decent :P So why does nobody buys it?

#2. The Problem

Since we now know that this item is technicly a monster in terms of efficency, lets see if its usefull!

AS: AS is one of, if not the worst Solo Offensive Stat that an item could possibly offer! You ether need to have already high amounts of AD/Crit or other onhits. Making it interesting as a 1st-2nd buy only for OnHit Users. And AA-reliant Champs already have fantasic Items: item 3115, item 3085, item 3153, item 3124, item 3078, item 1416, and other item 3086 items. So an overcap of AS is likely possible!

MR: Next up the MR. MR is technicly weaker then Ar since towers, minions and monster only deal physical dmg! (except baron). But also everybody has MR alternatives already, all of them with excellent itembuilds. Lets list all rivals: item 3156, item 3814, item 3139, item 3065, item 3102, item 3512, item 3026, item 3060, item 3190, item 3001, item 3111 Specialy those subitems: item 3211, item 3155, item 3140 are extremely powerfull! Those items fullfill close to everything you could wish for: Vs Burst, Dive, Vs CC, Sustain, CC, Splitpush/Lanepressure, vs Assasins, Splitpush, Teamshield, Ap vs Ap, Anti CC. So only focusing on giving MR will not cut it. Some HP or Ar would help alot!

OnHit and MR Steal: OnHit dmg is never wrong, it is, of course, not as strong as flat ad/ap, but since everybody has the ability to AA it is not awefull and sometimes helps to bypass weak ad/ap scalings!

MR Steal is also not terrible since its basicly better MagicPen, but with the stacking mechanic it needs time before its fully applied. So Burst or abilitys with long cds that are used to engage/set up more dmg will not benefit at all from the potential pen. MagicExecutes on the otherhand will more likely benefit from this.

It can be stacked on multiply targets( but you will only get +25Mr max.) and it beeing a debuff, gives your teammates the oppertunity to deal more dmg, which is quiet usefull! But first you need to apply those stacks! A hurricane helps alot in this regard! The Magic OnHit and the MR Steal passiv synergyses very well.

Now lets bring it all together:

Wits End is usefull on AA-reliant Champs that have alot of/high sustained MagicDmg or an MagicExecute. Futhermore they should NOT find other MR Items that appealing (so having no/low Ad scalings, no sustain, ranged makes Wits End more appealing). Extra magic Onhit effects/making use of Onhits are welcome too.

That leaves use with: Teemo, Kayle, Jax, KogMaw and also, but a bit weaker, Mordekaiser, Shen, Warwick, Varus, TahmKench, Shyvana, DrMundo, Udyr.

Teemo, KogMaw and Varus are quiet squishy and there is no Ar/Hp item from them. So getting the full Pen before they get blown up can be tricky. This requiers good positioning which is a skill that needs to be learned first, and Varus likes ArPen more then MRPen.

Mordekaiser needs mobility/utility first and only Mr and no HP/Ar hurts a bit.

Shen, TahmKench, DrMundo scale far to good with HP to buy an item only with a bit of Mr and no HP! Mundo and Tahm will also build Spirit too!

Kayle, Jax, Warwick, Udyr, Shyvana Those 5 are the best user of Wits End! They have enough mobility to get AAs off, good sustained MagicDmg, tanky enough to not get blown up, make use of the MrPen and have room to build this item!

Only 5 champs out of 130+... Yes Champions like Irelia, Cho build it in certain situations, but they waste a ton of potential! Specialy Irelia! Our aim here is to increase its overall viability!

3. The Ideas:

I will list here all possible Changes/ideas and then put them together to actual items!

Stats:

  • Lower Mr, but extra Ar/HP
  • %ms/OOC Ms(OutOfCombat)
  • Tenacity
  • Flat AD/AP

Onhit Passiv

  • Onhit scaling with Lvl/AS
  • OnHit vs Same target scales up (x1.5/x2)

Passiv/Activ

  • Mr and Ar Steal
  • 10/15% magic dmg reduction vs last target hit (~like phantomdancer passiv)(suggested by a guy named Irelia Bot)
  • gain tenacity vs the AAed Target only
  • target gets a negativ tenacity debuff (so CC lasts longer on them)

New Wits Versions

Wits End v1: "Hybrid Wits"

  • Stats: **2700g **costs (item 1043 + item 3105 + 600g) (can be lowered by ~100g/200g) 42% AS 30 Ar 30Mr Passiv: 30 MagicDmg OnHit Passiv: Steals up to 5 Ar&Mr Onhit, stacking 3(4) times to a max of 15(20)

Wits End v2.: "Zephyr Wits"

  • Stats: ** 2500g** cost (same path) ** 42% AS** ** 40Mr** ** 7% Ms** Passiv: 50 MagicDmg OnHit Passiv: Flat 25% Tenacity Gained when AAing a champion and a flat -25% Tenacity REDUCTION debuff to a Target hit by an AA.(champs only)

Explaination: Only CC duration is increased, not the dmg done! They will just be longer CCed. (no impact on knockups surpressions etc.)

Wits End v3.: "AntiMage Wits"

  • Stats: 2700g cost (same path) ** 42%As** 40Mr Passiv: 30 MagicDmg Onhit, every additional hit deals 33% more basedmg, max at 3 stacks(60 Dmg OnHit) At 3 Stacks the target deals 15% less magic dmg towards the owner. (or each stack gives 5% magic dmg reduction) Passiv Reduces Ar and Mr by 4, stacking 4 times (16 total)

Wits End v4. "Tank Wits"

  • Stats: 2700g cost (item 1043 + item 1028+ item 1031) 300HP 40 Ar 42 AS% Passiv: 40 MagicDmg OnHit Passiv: 25% Tenacity and 5 Mr Steal/AA stacking 4 times.

Those are the the main themes that i came up with. Obviously all can be tweaked!

All of them are targeted to stay in the 2700g range. But we could make it a 3000+ item too! This would obviously increase the amount of ideas by a lot, but I personally think it should stay in a more tanky/bruiser area. To not mess with its old identity to much.

What is your favorite? Hybrid, Zephyr, Antimage, Tank, or a full 3000g+ item? My personal favorite is Hybrid :D Any other ideas or themes? You know where you can put them :P Ill be waiting!

Thats it for now! Remember you can find this series easly by typing: "SummonersLab" in the searchbar in the top left! Hope you liked it and maybe got some new crazy ideas :D

9 Comments

Doomyous1 votes

I see what you did there with the 42 [slayer-jinx-wink] Hybrid looks really nice! +1

TakaDama1 votes

Neat, though stealing both resistances would probably necessitate a severe drop in the cost efficiency since ADCs would benefit greatly from survivability steal while having relevant stats. Doesn't hurt that it synergizes with Runaan's Hurricane as well (or, in other words, Kog would be insane with this).

My suggestion:

Wits End v5 -2800g (Recurve Bow + Ruby Crystal + Ruby Crystal) -42% AS -250 Health -Unique Passive: 20 true damage on-hit -Unique Passive: Steals 5 Armor and MR on hit. Stacks up to 4 times.

Health over resistances to help make the most of the stealing, lowered on hit damage as true damage to make this item viable even if not able to stack quickly.

Lord Desert1 votes

The steal is limited to 1 full stack on yourself, so even if you "steal" the Mr&Ar from 3 guys, you will only get 1 full stacked Mr/Ar and not all 3 :D This item technicly only gives AS and a bit OnHit, Adcs have the Crit+AS items and need LS and Flat AD and Armorpen! Only NonCrit "OnHit" Adcs would value this and its resistance over the zeal items :D So Kalista and Kog would be the only adcs that would buy this! Or Tank vayne toplane xD So the adcs would give up to much dmg, for to little survivabilty! They would prefer an GA over this on!

Now your Suggestion: recurv is 1100g, rubys are 400g each with 150Hp. So the combine costs would be 900. Which is too high! Your 2 rubys give 300Hp together, but the item loses 50 and will never get it back. Thats also something that would not be introduced on an item! Guismos atleast gave the attackspeed back with the stacking, (now it was buffed, so it doesnt lose stats when you complete it)

True Dmg, even if you halfed the dmg, is always really tricky! since the only way to counter that is HP! So i would go against that! We can make the Onhit dmg 50% magic and 50% physical or only 1 typ, but true dmg is really risky! And we can give quiet some Stats with the stacking!

So let me do some magic: shzdg fasd gfuorgr fbipu kaboooooom Wits End (TakaDama Edition) Stats:

  • 2800g Costs (item 1043 + item 1042 + item 1011 + 400g)
  • 42% AS
  • 400 HP Unique passiv: 30 Hybrid Dmg OnHit (50% Magical, 50% Physical) Unique passiv: Steals 5 Ar&Mr OnHit, up to 4 Stacks(20 Ar&MR)

What do you think about this one?

Champion Skin1 votes

Wits End v2.: "Zephyr Wits" Stats: 2500g cost (same path) 42% AS 40Mr 7% Ms Passiv: 50 MagicDmg OnHit Passiv: Flat 25% Tenacity Gained when AAing a champion and a flat -25% Tenacity REDUCTION debuff to a Target hit by an AA.(champs only) Explaination: Only CC duration is increased, but not dmg ticks! They will just be longer CCed. (no impact on knockups surpressions etc.)

Hmmm it seems quite powerful... if the stats weren't so "bad" it would be amazing on support/CC champions after all it is pretty much the item 3031 /item 3089 of CC given that CC only scale with CDR and also this if it existed though applying the effect before using your CC might be somewhat difficult

Lord Desert1 votes

This version is more or less focused on Vanguards/Divers/Fighters, which can survive a bit after they engaged, and ether have synergys within their kit or could set up for others, since you need to AA a target first, only then is your CC amplified. Which requiers you to get close without blowing every CC :D But it is a mix of team and personal benefits.

I also thought about making this stat available for supports or other cc champions, but with a cap of max 0.5 sec increase of the CC duration. To not get too crazy. With a +25% duration, a Morg Q would last 3,75sec... Even with tenacity and QSS available this would be to long for normal gameplay. and because tenacity is still a rather raw stat, but its is certainly possible for everyone to get it! We also could introduce a slow strength increasing stat. Since we have a Shield+Heal increasing stat, why not a CC influencing stat?

I talked a bit about both of them in here: SummonersLab, Part 9: Support Role Improvements (2)

Champion Skin1 votes

I also thought about making this stat available for supports or other cc champions, but with a cap of max 0.5 sec increase of the CC duration.

Ehh... that seems bad... since then it would just add up to 0.5 seconds per CC... so champion with only one strong CC gets at most 0.5 sec but champions with more then 1 CC can get more then that for no other reason then their CC being split up You could limit it so that champions can only be affected by X amount of additional CC and the being protected for X seconds or it having diminishing returns?

We also could introduce a slow strength increasing stat. Since we have a Shield+Heal increasing stat, why not a CC influencing stat?

That could be possible but then slows should be decoupled from attack speed slows as currently they currently are affected by the same things (as attack speed slows are strong enough as they are) There is also the slight issue with how effective slows are against champions with no mobility and especially so melee champions (since they usually can't do much if they are prevented from getting in range because of slows... while ranged champions if they have enough range can usually at least fight back to some degree)

Lord Desert1 votes

At best I could see potentionally deminishing returns or a weaker increase for point'n'click CCs. But I wouldnt like to go that route :/

Heres why: The way this is balanced is because of the base durations. Morganas Q has a base of 3 seconds, Irelia has 2 sec, and leona only a 1 sec duration. So with an item that provides a 25% increase, Leona would only get 0.25s more if she wants the max 0.5s she ether needs another item and/or masteries. But she has more CCs which benefit/ lower cooldowns, so this item still might look good for her. Irelia only needs this one item to get the 0.5sec increase. But Morganas Q with is very high base duration would get a 3.75sec total duration without the cap! And that is already to much especially considering another 25% item and 15% from masteries on top :D You would be sneared for 10 million years xD Thats why I capped it at 0.5sec.

To put everything together: If you have lots of CC the base duration is very likely to be to low to get to the cap of 0.5sec with 25%. You need a base duration of 2 sec to get to the cap. If you want to cap every CC you would need to buy at least 2 items, which is a decent trade-off in my eyes since there are alot of good items and the CC machine Sups are very limited in terms of free itemslots already :P

We also shouldnt forget the counter options! If you have tenactiy it should lower the duration AFTER the increase! So first "-25% tenacity"(increasing the duration) and then "+25% tenactity"(reducing it), will result in a lower duration in total. So you would still reduce the duration a tiny bit. The same math is also used for attackspeed slows btw. There are also QSS, Cleanse, Mikaels, Banshes, Edge and alot of abilitys which interact or even negate CC. So there are technicaly a lot of ways to negate this bonus!

Oh I forget its also multiplicativ! So +25% and +25% is +43,75% and not +50%!

I can understand your point, but I believe the amount of AttackSpeed Slows and the common base duration/strenght is to low to be a serious thread (Randuins, FH, exhaust etc. are all at best 30% so a 25% increase to 37,5% which is not that much. Only Nasus, Malphs and Fioras Slows are rather strong, which possibly could justify another soft cap. But you also can counter them with swifties/masteries and decrease the duration/negate/remove it completely so it is pretty tricky :/

As for the "normal" slows: There are strong slows in every kind of role at least once somewhere. But the items should be tailored to Sups,Tanks,Divers and all the other go in and stay there dudes, whos names I cant remember, so carrys normally cant/will not increase them themself. Another soft cap could also be made for this, but slows are way more forgiving than hard CC. I would made a tank item with some slowresistance otherwise, we agree there, tanks/juggernauts would get kitet way to easily.

A quick reminder: The 110 minium ms already makes slows over 75% useless since you need a 100% slow to reduce the ms to 0. And we are not allowing slows to increase to 100%. So the best "users" would be 60%-40% slows. Assuming a 25% slow increase on an item.

Other possible ideas could be: only increase your own slows, melee only, only for a short duration and then a short cd before it can be reapplied, only increases the next slow applied etc.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

Jesus, i'm gonna bookmark this, and read it for later

Lord Desert1 votes

It makes me really happy to see guys notice this 2 hole months after its release :D But take your time, its quiet a long post and if you have questions/suggestions feel free to lay them out right infront of me!

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