Forum punishments & In-game punishments

Daen·Aug 5, 2014·2 votes·688 views

Hi,

Is this something that happens or has been considered? Currently, on GD it's very easy to find people that have clearly been posting on the forums for a long time and are harshly negative. Here's an example:

"retarded nondiamond advice, as always please agree or shut up, you don't have the intelligence to argue with me."

This person is a diamond level player and the vast majority of his/her posts are like this. Does it make sense to just ban him/her from the forums (which he may or may not even care about), or should clear intentional toxicity be treated just as strongly regardless of the location?

It seems strange that there are so many methods in place to keep toxic players out of the client, and yet players are able to be as trolly as they want on the forums since it doesn't affect them in a meaningful way (that I know of).

Should we as a community consider the forums and the game itself to be totally separate in policy?

16 Comments

ArtoriusIVAug 5, 20141 votes

My opinion, if you are banned from the forums your are banned from the game for as long, and vice versa. If you don't want that person playing the game because of whatever reason, do you want them talking to others playing the game still?

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20142 votes

Well, a good portion of people who are negative in-game, are that way because they're stressed/angry about their teammates' performance, not because they're toxic people when they aren't under pressure.

While I don't say things like this anymore, I have said things like "[garen dies, again] OMG, this garen" It's not necessarily toxic, per se, but it is certainly negative, and I would not want someone saying that to me. Let's say I get an in-game ban for stuff like that. Does that make me deserving of a forum ban, too? I don't think so - because there's not the same kind of stress/pressure on the forums.

DaenAug 5, 20142 votes

It's mainly the reverse situation that's interesting to me. If someone is heavily toxic on a forum where there is significantly less stress & pressure, what does that say about their potential for issues in-game? I know the in-game systems can handle it, but it seems strange as a matter of principle to see massive toxicity on the forums and allow them to retain total control of their in-game account.

I'm thinking on unformed...thoughts (wow such redundant) here, so my apologies if I'm not making sense. Call me out on it if I'm not!

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20141 votes

You make sense. I think the opposite might be true, too, though - some people troll on the forums for laughs, but are perfectly fine to play with in-game.

DaenAug 5, 20141 votes

some people troll on the forums for laughs, but are perfectly fine to play with in-game.

Is it OK to casually troll on the forums? (Not insinuating an answer, I'm legitimately curious as to people's thoughts on this)

Hyrum GraffAug 6, 20141 votes

I think it depends on the nature of the trolling. Some trolling is harmless, other trolling is toxic.

ArtoriusIVAug 6, 20142 votes

While I see your point, I stand by my ideology, ban from one transfers to the other.

Hyrum GraffAug 6, 20142 votes

On what argument, though?

I guess I could understand if you wanted to argue that it's an additional incentive for people not to break our community standards anywhere.

ArtoriusIVAug 6, 20142 votes

A little bit of that, but also the game and the forums although not the same, are the same community, and getting a ban from one and not the other seems contradictory to me, especially if it is because the member is toxic to the community. The ban, at least to me, is to prevent that person from ruining your game for other people, but allowing them to continue to talk, even in a non-toxic manner, doesn't prevent them from shedding a bad light on your community or ruining others enjoyment in the community. I get that this definitely removes some expertise and knowledge from the forum community, I would rather that then allow toxicity to remain when it has already been brought to attention that that person is/can be/has been toxic to a high degree.

DaenAug 6, 20141 votes

an additional incentive for people not to break our community standards anywhere.

That's sort of my thought process here, yeah.

Hyrum GraffAug 6, 20141 votes

I don't know whether this is a bad thing or a good thing, but it would also make all those "Why was I banned?" posts go away.

Well, probably not go away, but they would be made after people have served their ban. Or people would just use smurfs all the time.

Sir ArmaMalumAug 5, 20141 votes

I believe they should be at least somewhat separate, as their purposes differ and therefore so do the interactions between players. Debates can get heated and insults can be slung like anywhere, but it imho doesn't necessarily reflect someone's behavior in-game.

I'll completely admit that the guy in your example is more than likely also an asshole in-game, but he could also simply mute everyone on reflex and not chat at all, resigning himself to a silence from "the plebians" he sees himself surrounded by, and he doesn't actually create a toxic atmosphere. Of course, I don't specifically know in this case, but I think two separate systems can handle it better. Provided they're both working, which I believe the consensus right now is that Gd's is not.

DaenAug 5, 20141 votes

I'll completely admit that the guy in your example is more than likely also an asshole in-game, but he could also simply mute everyone on reflex and not chat at all, resigning himself to a silence from "the plebians" he sees himself surrounded by, and he doesn't actually create a toxic atmosphere.

This brings up a really interesting question; if the person is heavily toxic on the forums but not in-game, should the heavy forum toxicity punishment be translated to the game regardless? Even though he might not be toxic in-game, the amount of negativity generated in the forums can affect players in more subtle (but still significant) ways.

Provided they're both working, which I believe the consensus right now is that Gd's is not.

Good point.

My main concern is that for people that don't care about the forums, getting banned there for trolling is totally meaningless. They could do nothing but spam obscenities or be borderline toxic to the point where they might not get banned but are still negative and just don't care. This contrasts with the game because for the most part no one would be playing if they didn't care.

I think in-game punishment systems are robust and becoming even stronger, but realistically speaking it can become extremely difficult to regulate forums in such a strict way.

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20141 votes

Well, we now have a Report button on the forums here.

What if we had a tribunal system for the forums? We could issue post-per-hour restrictions, etc.

The only thing I'm concerned about with that suggestion is:

Troll goes to forum tribunal, sees case
Troll searches for the words from the case, to find where it is
Troll pardons or punishes the person based on who they are, not their post.

DaenAug 5, 20141 votes

I don't think a Tribunal (at least, in its current implementation) could work for the Forums. As you said, it's relatively simple to see the text of a comment and find who said it.

Something to keep in mind, the Report button escalates to the moderation team. What happens if there are a hundred thousand people using the forums down the line? A team of ten people could spend their entire lives just going through those reports.

mëthmânAug 6, 20141 votes

It's been for a week that i started doing ranked but in half of my games im beeing kicked out because my screen wont let me chose a champion.This is pretty annoying considering the fact that u still loose point for dodging and it is not intended. this happend 3 times in a row went from 32 pts to 8 pts without even playing plz do something im pretty pissed off it happens so often. It says i might be loosing connection but my internet works perfectly, when its my turn to pick i can still communicate with the people on my team via the chat but cant chose any champion plz fix this because playing a game where advancing seems impossible and out of your control due to game imperfection gets boring. i loose aproximatively 20 pts for dodging each day before finaly getting in a game the 3rd or 4th try after waiting like an hour and a half since u cant re-queue right after.When i get into games i dont lag at all its only in the pre-game (queue and champ select) that i cant do anything and thats what make me wonder what causes the problem and wish that you will solve it as fast as possible so i can enjoy playing this game once again.