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@Riot: Chromas and why they seem questionable

Daen··34 votes·1,783 views

Hey there everyone,

Please refer to this thread if you haven't seen it already. The OP claims to have made a chroma with very little Photoshop experience within an hour, complete with particles; screenshots and videos are attached. I know there have been a lot of threads about chromas, but I wanted to add one more where I touch on why this is potentially a big ticket issue with the community.

In my opinion, a reasonably significant part of the community's negative reaction to chromas is that it appears they are vastly easier to produce than the cost would suggest. I'm not necessarily saying this is true (I trust Riot not to be greedy), but there needs to be some communication to help us (the community) understand why they are priced the way they are.

The reasoning of "previous recolors used to be 390 RP so that's how these need to be priced" seems a bit questionable, particularly when considering the fact users are able to create custom chromas in half an hour and there are seventy million potential buyers. Is there any particular reason RP is potentially the only option at launch? Consider the following:

Personally, this is how I might set up the price structure for chromas; I'll use Riot's numbers for consistency.

  • 390 RP per individual chroma
  • 4,800 IP per individual chroma
  • 590 RP for a three chroma bundle
  • Cannot buy chroma bundles with IP
  • Chroma of player's choice (for that champion) unlocked for free when player reaches Tier 5 champion mastery

To me, this is a much more compelling structure for chromas. It allows players to buy individual chromas for each type of currency if they'd like while still incentivizing the use of RP through much cheaper bundling and a significant reduction when compared to IP. This also ties into the Champion Mastery system nicely, providing a little reward for players that show their dedication to a champion.

37 Comments

RiotRiot Bearly Leah9 votes

Couldn't agree more dear friend. However I do think there needs to be a divide between the "earn from mastery " part and the "pay ___ currency " part. Personally I'd feel a little cheated knowing I worked hard on a champion to get a chroma for it, while someone else can just money dump and get the same thing.

Maybe there should a special chroma specifically for the champion mastery segment? If not, I'd personally say either make it pay IP/RP OR do the champion mastery system.

Daen2 votes

Personally I'd feel a little cheated knowing I worked hard on a champion to get a chroma for it, while someone else can just money dump and get the same thing.

Maybe there should a special chroma specifically for the champion mastery segment? If not, I'd personally say either make it pay IP/RP OR do the champion mastery system.

This is totally valid, and something I was considering while writing this. The main issue here is finding a balance between prestige (look at my champion mastery) and actually wanting whichever chroma is the exclusive champion mastery version. My favorite color is red, but yours might be yellow; if the Mastery chroma is yellow, I would be kinda sad about it because then I wouldn't have the red one I wanted.

The way I validated this in my mind is that when you have champion mastery tier 5 you have a special emote in-game; this emote can show your mastery regardless of which chroma you have, so it can almost be seen as separate functionality.

What do you think?

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

Does that defeat the purpose of having the chroma be the gift for champion mastery, though? In that case it's doubly taxing on Riot since they have to give you the emote AND the chroma.

I see what you mean about favorite color, however, I think most people would appreciate that they got something special from mastery in the first. Maybe you could have a choice of a few different colors? That way you could pick your favorite.

Daen1 votes

Does that defeat the purpose of having the chroma be the gift for champion mastery, though? In that case it's doubly taxing on Riot since they have to give you the emote AND the chroma.

The emote is already finished, to be fair, but I see what you're getting at and to be perfectly honest I actually agree to a point. I was writing out a response just now about how MMOs generally have armor that is physically more impressive the higher the tier, but then I thought back to one of my favorite armor progression aesthetics of all time: RuneScape.

The way RuneScape's armor system worked is that you went through material tiers (Bronze > Iron > Steel > Mithril etc.), and all the tiers looked exactly alike except for color. It was really easy to immediately tell the rough level of a player by the color of the armor they wore, and this was something I liked. This color progression ended eventually, however, and higher tiers of armor were completely unique sets. An example might be something like the following, for League:

Lucian

Tier 2 mastery - Yellow chroma Tier 4 mastery - Grey chroma Tier 5 mastery - Red chroma Tier 6 mastery (theoretical, let's say it's exponentially more difficult than Tier 5) - Entirely new skin Tier 7 mastery (exponentially more difficult than Tier 6) - Entirely new skin

Obviously this isn't particularly feasible, but the general idea is that the color locking (x armor had to be y color) is cumulative in RuneScape. At max level you have all of the colors and can pick your favorites to display, so the fact color is linked to achievement doesn't matter as much.

Back to League of Legends, if only one chroma is available through mastery and the others are locked behind a pay wall, it could potentially be a source of frustration.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

The emote is already finished, to be fair, but I see what you're getting at and to be perfectly honest I actually agree to a point.

My bad I didn't even know this (too distracted with school lately) >_<;

At max level you have all of the colors and can pick your favorites to display, so the fact color is linked to achievement doesn't matter as much.

I like that idea. The progression of tiers gets you more.

What I'd still like to know is how many resources they're actually putting into making chromas. The general consensus is that they're super easy to make and therefore doesn't matter if they're given away as Mastery gifts.

There's always a trade-off (as I'm sure you're well aware) with the whole give away things (and lose money) vs attain customer loyalty.

Back to League of Legends, if only one chroma is available through mastery and the others are locked behind a pay wall, it could potentially be a source of frustration.

I can see the sort of frustration you might get. Where as maybe you get blue for mastery but you have to pay for red/yellow/etc..

However, given the chance to have something free, I'd rather have something than nothing.

Same thing with PAX skins. I don't really play either of the champions they gave skins for this year (Kayle and Vel'koz) but them giving something at all was nice to see (and felt nice too!)

junglerboy168 votes

On that note, I think that Chromas for the base skin should be unlockable only through champion mastery, while Chromas for other skins should be an IP/RP purchase. That way, if you see a Gnar rocking a bright blue and green palette, you'd know they play a lot of Gnar. Or a Yellow Fizz is really good at their champion. Or a red Janna is really that good at protecting her ADC.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

That's a fair point. It also gives a way for people who can't buy skins to get something simple. Rewarding hard work and such.

Daen1 votes

What if a player wanted to use a skin but also wanted to show off that mastery?

It's something I really like about the Champion Mastery system, the fact you can show it off in other ways than just your character aesthetics.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

I was thinking this too. I have a decent amount of skins (especially for champions I play consistently) so I'd probably rather use those skins. However, showing off mastery is nice.

At the same time, is it greedy to ask for that many free recolors? I get it's not difficult but they're still a business.

Daen1 votes

is it greedy to ask for that many free recolors? I get it's not difficult but they're still a business.

I completely agree, though it comes down to the value of the content as opposed to its cost, as well as what they need to be able to continue expansion. Customer loyalty has incredibly high value down the line, but it's not necessarily a measurable effect or something that can visibly affect the bottom line.

Levyathyn1 votes

I disagree. Aside from the general and incorrect principle that skins denote better players of those champs, or that mastery will, you have to take into account that this is cosmetic and for looks, and many players over many, many champions prefer the default skin, and would rather have chroma(s) for it.

I'm all for variations on buying, getting, and unlocking chromas for various price points and through in-game rewards and masteries, but I think delineating it like that would alienate some of the player-base.

junglerboy162 votes

Well, mastery would denote someone as being at least reasonably skilled (in the very least, very experienced) with their champion. Skins as a whole mean nothing about how well you play, but having that one unique recolor that you earn when you actually do play them well would be a different case entirely.

As for alienating players, how would that happen?

Levyathyn2 votes

Mastery can be earned with time, as well, but I've seen people with 1,000 games more than me that didn't have enough experience to clean a Bronze IV's shoes. And it would be a nice touch for people who earn it and can show off, while also having something to show off.

I'm not arguing here for or against one thing, but for both possibilities.

If you make mastery chromas unlockable for only base skins, and then only purchasable chromas for actual skins, you're basically taking a portion of that champion's players and preventing them from getting chromas. First, there's the players who will want to have mastery unlocked chromas to show off, but who also want to play in a bought skin they like. Then there's the players who will prefer the default skin for a champ, but may not have or like the unlockable mastery-linked chromas.

To please everyone, you'd have to have chromas you could buy for all skins, including default, and then mastery related chromas for all skins. And that's a lot of work, or a lot of people who will have a hard time getting use out of something like that.

Daen1 votes

To please everyone, you'd have to have chromas you could buy for all skins, including default, and then mastery related chromas for all skins. And that's a lot of work, or a lot of people who will have a hard time getting use out of something like that.

+1. The ideal situation from the player perspective would of course be chromas for every champion and every skin, but that's a huge amount of work. The goal is to ensure it's feasibly scalable from Riot's perspective while offering as much value as possible to the community, and I just wonder whether specifically requiring bundled RP purchase is the way to do so.

Zarxis1 votes

{quoted}

On that note, I think that Chromas for the base skin should be unlockable only through champion mastery, while Chromas for other skins should be an IP/RP purchase. That way, if you see a Gnar rocking a bright blue and green palette, you'd know they play a lot of Gnar. Or a Yellow Fizz is really good at their champion. Or a red Janna is really that good at protecting her ADC.

I think there should be unlockable achievement-only Chromas for each skin (including classic). At least one per skin. That way, those of us who buy skins can also show that we've worked to master their champions in addition to people who just use classic skins.

Oleandervine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bearly Leah,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ElZ472QL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-08T22:48:55.862+0000)

Couldn't agree more dear friend. However I do think there needs to be a divide between the "earn from mastery " part and the "pay ___ currency " part. Personally I'd feel a little cheated knowing I worked hard on a champion to get a chroma for it, while someone else can just money dump and get the same thing.

Maybe there should a special chroma specifically for the champion mastery segment? If not, I'd personally say either make it pay IP/RP OR do the champion mastery system.

You already get the special emotes for champion mastery, and you get them listed in your profile. Having a chroma be unlockable through champion mastery or through IP/RP isn't a bad thing nor does it devalue them no more than buying a champ with RP instead of hard earned IP or getting an ultimate skin through a mystery gift instead of paying full for it. The DC Infinite Crisis MOBA launched with a champion mastery system in place, and the first champion reward at level 5 is purchasable in the shop on top of being unlocked. If anything, most players would prefer to unlock the item through play rather than purchase, but some may be impatient. I see absolutely no devaluing going on here, especially since any reward will already be devalued on account of how many people play said champion and that alone will make it less special if you see 5 billion other players with the unlockable chroma for someone you play.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

You already get the special emotes for champion mastery, and you get them listed in your profile.

Didn't realize this, my bad.

I see absolutely no devaluing going on here, especially since any reward will already be devalued on account of how many people play said champion and that alone will make it less special

You're not wrong in that sense. I can see why more people having a nidalee mastery would make mastering nidalee less of an unique accomplishment.

However, I don't agree that there is no devaluing going on when you can get the same chroma in mastery vs paying for it.

Champions vs skins are a little different. Yes there's no difference in buying a champion in IP vs RP. The same way if chromas were available in IP as well as RP there wouldn't be a difference in which currency you bought it with. The difference in this case is that it becomes an unlockable (through mastery) or purchasable. In the same way that people were upset when Riot brought back old skins to be available again. There's an inherent feeling of specialty when you're told "you got this because you worked on X champion and got to a high mastery with it," in the same way that it's special to have a skin no one else had for awhile. Yes they received the icon in exchange, but I'd argue it's not really the same (that's a whole different off topic argument though).

It's why many MMO's eventually have problems. There ends up being too many pay to win outlets making the general player base feel insignificant and that their hardwork is not being rewarded. When you feel cheated from your hard work you get frustrated players.

While, yes, this is not a pay to win system because skins don't give you advantages (even though we all know they totally do), it's still the same pride factor.

Meªt5 votes

I believe that's a very very fair and reasonable structure for Chroma skin purchase. Well thought out.

Daen1 votes

Thanks!

Starlighte3 votes

"But Daen, this is just a Beta! We (Riot) are releasing them like this to test the waters. That doesn't mean IP is out of the question, but we're going to try this and see how it goes." -Riot copy-paste response to the thread, if they respond.

This whole process seems sketchy. They probably put an intern on the Chromas...

RiotRiot Bearly Leah2 votes

As someone who wants to be an intern I am thoroughly offended :P.

Kingsgrave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bearly Leah,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=ElZ472QL,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-04-08T23:03:25.058+0000)

As someone who wants to be an intern I am thoroughly offended :P.

why would you be offended? Simple recolors all day would be hella easy.

RiotRiot Bearly Leah1 votes

{quoted}

why would you be offended? Simple recolors all day would be hella easy.

It was a joke because the implication was that interns can't do things right

Chaotic Reks2 votes

chroma xerath will be cheaper battlecast and runeborn...

Daen1 votes

I believe Battlecast and Runeborn have different textures and models for the armor, but I could be wrong.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

i know, i was making a joke referring that they are basically just particle recolors with cooler models.

Bresn2 votes

RP on top of RP (The specific skin itself), I see Chroma Packs NOT as something that we wanted, but something to make profit. Disgusting.

The Vilemaw Icon2 votes

Riot has been so quiet about this. Only KateyKhaos has dared touch this topic and even then only with a mixture of replying to the 1 positive comment among 50, general appreciating of feedback, and asking for more feedback as if there aren't 49 comments in the thread saying exactly what the OP here has said.

Suppose it could be a sign that they're thinking things over, but it makes me nervous.

Daen2 votes

Riot has been so quiet about this. Suppose it could be a sign that they're thinking things over, but it makes me nervous.

My thoughts exactly. I'm OK with the idea of them being RP only, but the reasoning and lack of rebuttal on the claim that they are extremely easy to make for the price comparison are a little concerning.

tifas left elbow1 votes

Now we just need to get some Red attention here.

Penta Penguin1 votes

Chromas for RP is a really bad idea. Riot has already actively moved passed developing and selling recolors, but are now stepping back on that for some reason.

Daen1 votes

I actually disagree with this concept, that chromas for RP is innately bad. I think it makes sense from a business standpoint for them to charge real money for this content, I'm just confused as to why they chose a, quite frankly, manipulative commerce method (bundling). The pricing also makes very little sense; the logic I've seen has been essentially "we did this five years ago so we're maintaining that price", which is really strange.

Penta Penguin1 votes

I appreciate the perspective that they need to make money, however I think this is pushing it a little too far. We're not talking about the small start-up that didn't know how to do anything else _ but_ recolors anymore. We're talking about an F2P leader that can afford gigantic international tournaments and venues.

I wrote more about it here; thread link

Krigjer1 votes

I'd buy chromas for IP.

I'm not a fan of them in the first place. I feel like they're adding a lot of visual clutter. (Seeing a flash of Yellow Fizz out of a bush and thinking it's Heim)

But I think it's an insult to expect players to pay real money for a recolour. They've been moving away from recolour skins and doing more with models/particles. I feel like they took two steps back.

Daen1 votes

I responded similarly to Aliceandsven, I don't necessarily think it's terrible for Riot to be charging RP for this content. I feel like the pricing doesn't make sense ("we did this a long time ago so let's use the same pricing despite the fact we've grown so much") and forced bundling is manipulative at best, but it fits their general theme of cosmetic = RP.

I'm honestly not sure if it's selfish of me or not to say I wish chromas were 95 RP each for skin chromas and 248 RP for base chromas. It's obviously significantly lower than their current pricing scheme, but the idea of paying 590 RP on top of a skin just to get the color I want doesn't sit well with me.

Krigjer2 votes

{quoted}

I'm honestly not sure if it's selfish of me or not to say I wish chromas were 95 RP each for skin chromas and 248 RP for base chromas. It's obviously significantly lower than their current pricing scheme, but the idea of paying 590 RP on top of a skin just to get the color I want doesn't sit well with me.

That also bothered me. Once you think about it, you're essentially paying 1400 RP for a (975) skin. For that price you could have gotten better particles in a different (1350) skin.
I'm not a fan of skins that don't change particle/voice effects to begin with, so I'm probably unnecessarily upset.

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