Okay Riot, WHY is the mia ping still allowed to be a perfect way to be toxic nonverbally?

Shinjusuke·Apr 21, 2017·16 votes·1,994 views

I mean, c'mon, really?

Smart Pings have been in the game a long time now.

When're we going to get a ping that isn't something every asshole in this game can use to spam

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

fucking constantly?

It's blatantly toxic, and it's not even something that is ever going to get caught by chat investigations because it looks totally legitimate outside actual gameplay.

Seriously, I feel like this is something that should've been noticed and changed ages ago, and I can't be the only one who gets irritated when some dumb asshole starts spam-pinging me ? FOR EVERY FUCKING THING THEY DISAGREE WITH. Or every thing they wanna whine about without getting caught. Or every single time you don't do EXACTLY what they tell you.

Seriously. This shit is stupid.

31 Comments

OctaviaApr 21, 20176 votes

Scary DoorApr 21, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I mean, c'mon, really?

Smart Pings have been in the game a long time now.

When're we going to get a ping that isn't something every asshole in this game can use to spam

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

fucking constantly?

It's blatantly toxic, and it's not even something that is ever going to get caught by chat investigations because it looks totally legitimate outside actual gameplay.

Seriously, I feel like this is something that should've been noticed and changed ages ago, and I can't be the only one who gets irritated when some dumb asshole starts spam-pinging me ? FOR EVERY FUCKING THING THEY DISAGREE WITH. Or every thing they wanna whine about without getting caught. Or every single time you don't do EXACTLY what they tell you.

Seriously. This shit is stupid.

If you consider a ping to be toxic behavior, just imagine the horrors you'll face when you get to be all grown up and go out into the real world.

I'm curious what will happen to some of these people the first time their boss yells at them.

Hey, I'm all for punishing people that make death threats or are flagrantly and repeatedly racist, but if we're going to make a big deal about a fucking ping then it's time we all started to grow some thicker skin, folks.

Besides, what would you do? Remove pings? How would you stop someone from using it to "bully" you.

My grandfather was in World War II, if he were still alive I wonder what he would have to say about someone being bullied, harassed or 'intimidated' by a question mark on a computer screen.

ShinjusukeApr 21, 20172 votes

First off, despite your condescending attitude, I'm plenty grown up and "in the real world". If your boss yells at you, it's usually cuz you don't do your job. If your teammate in an online game harasses you, it's usually because they're an entitled little fuck who thinks they're far more worth the oxygen they're wasting than they probably are.

Second, good to know your granddad was in WW2. Wonder how he'd feel knowing his "grown up" grandkid is a douche hiding behind a keyboard. Mine was in WW2 also, and though he's dead now, he'd say people that just take shit from people for no reason aren't "thick skinned", they're either cowards or stupid. Kinda ironic that you'd reference a guy who fought in a war that the Allies fought LITERALLY because they had spent forever letting the Axis doing whatever they want, and that resulted in the genocide of 6.5 million people. So your point is what, "ignore the people acting like shitheads and assume they'll stop"? That's exactly what caused WW2 in the first place, 10/10 for irony.

Third, just because you're obviously the type of tool who DOES dumb shit like spam ping (as usually the idiots who say "lol thin skin" are the assholes who do toxic shit) doesn't mean it's not a dick thing to do, isn't annoying, or has any reason to stay in the game when it's easily fixed by a simple texture swap.

Kindly go into the "real world" and continue to piss people off. See how long it takes before someone doesn't put up with your bullshit and kicks your teeth down your throat.

Or stay hiding behind your computer screen, harassing people online and pretending you're more mature than you'll ever be. That's probably the safer route.

Scary DoorApr 21, 20174 votes

Third, just because you're obviously the type of tool who DOES dumb shit like spam ping (as usually the idiots who say "lol thin skin" are the assholes who do toxic shit) doesn't mean it's not a dick thing to do, isn't annoying, or has any reason to stay in the game when it's easily fixed by a simple texture swap.

It's a nice assumption but that's not what I do, nor was it my point. My point was that if you're going to get in a huff because someone spams a question mark on your screen then you need to get some perspective.

Look junior, if the worst thing that ever happens to you in your life is that someone spams a ping at you in an online game then you should consider yourself to a be a very luck individual.

Kindly go into the "real world" and continue to piss people off. See how long it takes before someone doesn't put up with your bullshit and kicks your teeth down your throat.

Ahh, classic rebuttal. Not that it's overly relevant, but I've had plenty of people pissed at me, I've heard every death threat and terrible thing that anyone could possibly ever say to another human being through the years, interestingly enough no one---in my adult life---has ever even thought about doing harm to me... that's part of hte beauty of being 6'4" and 280 and looking like an ugly ogre as I do... people tend to just let you be.

But if you'd like to come to Phoenix, I'd be more than happy to have that conversation with you. Believe me, you---just like everyone else in this community that is toxic in game---would be the perfect little angel when you meet me... you'd sake my hand, say "nice to meet you, man" and go about your business. I'm not intimidated by a vailed threat in an online forum, not am I intimidated by a PING on a computer screen.

If you are, then that says something about your consitution, not mine. If you think that's reportable then by all means go on ahead... I have better things to do and valid reports to file..

As I said, I'm all for reporting intentional feeders and those that offer up racism----not because I'm offended but typically because players that do that are terrible at the game and should be ousted from the community.

ShinjusukeApr 23, 20174 votes

Oh what a surprise, the big bad tough guy is doing the same copy-pasted garbage every other shit-talker in a board does. We've got the whole combo:

Insinuate someone's age because "durr hurr everyone who disagrees with me is a kid"
Create your own version of the dumbass "Navy Seal Copypasta" meme to sound tough
Ad-hominem.

Well done, points for lack of creativitiy.

For starters, there was no "veiled threat". You wanted to talk about the "real world", I made the point that douchebags usually get what's coming to them in the "real world" that you apparently pretend anyone who disagrees with you isn't a part of.

So you're 280 and ugly? So your point is "psh, I can be as much of a dick as I want, I've pissed a ton of people off but so far nobody has kicked my ass for it cuz I haven't run into anyone big enough yet"? Nice. Definitely shows you're not a shithead. Unbelievable lol

Either you live in a nice part of town, only act tough behind your screen, or just haven't run into the person who doesn't put up with you yet. In any case, my point still stands.

Nobody is "intimidated" by a ping, and just because you're so dense and pumped full of your own testosterone to imagine threats where they don't exist doesn't mean you need to puff out your chest, keyboard-warrior.

Your argument for "being an asshole with ping-spamming isn't reportable" is that the only 'valid' reports to you are those that are done to "oust players who are terrible at the game from the community"? Congratulations for putting up a giant glowing sign saying "here's the proof that I"m exactly the type of toxic dickhead you assumed I am".

Have fun finding people to bully with your sad life.

Aloexx RatfootApr 23, 20171 votes

The thing is he is right...

DispelleApr 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Oh what a surprise, the big bad tough guy is doing the same copy-pasted garbage every other shit-talker in a board does. We've got the whole combo:

Insinuate someone's age because "durr hurr everyone who disagrees with me is a kid"

Create your own version of the dumbass "Navy Seal Copypasta" meme to sound tough

Ad-hominem.

Well done, points for lack of creativitiy.

For starters, there was no "veiled threat". You wanted to talk about the "real world", I made the point that douchebags usually get what's coming to them in the "real world" that you apparently pretend anyone who disagrees with you isn't a part of.

So you're 280 and ugly? So your point is "psh, I can be as much of a dick as I want, I've pissed a ton of people off but so far nobody has kicked my ass for it cuz I haven't run into anyone big enough yet"? Nice. Definitely shows you're not a shithead. Unbelievable lol

Either you live in a nice part of town, only act tough behind your screen, or just haven't run into the person who doesn't put up with you yet. In any case, my point still stands.

Nobody is "intimidated" by a ping, and just because you're so dense and pumped full of your own testosterone to imagine threats where they don't exist doesn't mean you need to puff out your chest, keyboard-warrior.

Your argument for "being an asshole with ping-spamming isn't reportable" is that the only 'valid' reports to you are those that are done to "oust players who are terrible at the game from the community"? Congratulations for putting up a giant glowing sign saying "here's the proof that I"m exactly the type of toxic dickhead you assumed I am".

Have fun finding people to bully with your sad life.

I do believe this is the droid you were looking for.

TrulyBlandApr 22, 20173 votes

Remove the mia ping and it will be the exclamation mark ping... People will always try to find "subtle" ways to be assholes to each other without being banned.

I say "subtle" because it really isn't. Of course it's going to be more difficult to detect than non-sarcastic harassment in chat, but in fact not much more difficult than people using sarcasm to insult their teammates. And I have seen both of these resulting in punishment. If I'm not mistaken, it still requires a manual review to get banned for these things, but the automated system is looking for patterns of behaviour rather than just looking for very strict pre-defined conditions. So with that in mind it's not unimaginable that the system could at some point in the future with high enough confidence deduce from context whether an mia ping was abused as a form of harassment.

As an extreme example imagine the following context: high amount of pings in short time, happens shortly after a teammate died, ping is applied to an ally or their corpse, all enemies are visible. That would be an instance of mia ping spam that could fairly easily be identified as negative behaviour, even by a machine. Is it easy to go from there to detecting more cases with the necessary amount of confidence? No. But it isn't really impossible.

Best way to help with patterns that are difficult to detect is to be specific in the comments as to why you are reporting people, and even if there were easily identifiable offenses in chat, describe any negative behaviour that was less obvious in the comments.

NGNL AsianApr 22, 20173 votes

I do it to troll my friends lmfao

SecondAirbaneApr 22, 20173 votes

just turn ping volume off and say it all chat you have a dick then mute everybody

Baka RedApr 26, 20172 votes

Please tell us how we will detect the good meaningful pings if we do that? There are usually other team members in the team than the pingspammer and the ping spammed. Some of them might actually try to use pings appropriately but cannot, since ping spam and muting ping sound hides that.

Truly PridefulApr 22, 20173 votes

But I like to ? ping myself when I do stupid shit. :(

Kei143Apr 21, 20172 votes

it's not a perfect way to be toxic. Those that abuse such method of harassment will get 14-day banned when manually reviewed.

eazymakaveli3Apr 21, 20171 votes

they are not manually reviewed. otherwise more that the claimed 5% of players would be suspended more like half the player base.

JorenciceApr 21, 20172 votes

No it wouldnt. 5% sounds about right.

Its just birds of a feather flock together. So you noticed you fellow toxic people.

eazymakaveli3Apr 21, 20171 votes

5% of players means 1 teammate in 5 games, assuming you are not toxic urself. however, people break the summoners code every single game. if reports were really reviewed then half the people playing this game would be perma banned.

JorenciceApr 21, 20173 votes

I'd say I only have to report someone about 1 every 50 games.

ShinjusukeApr 21, 20172 votes

Either you're lucky or awfully forgiving.

Between

afks (either our team or enemy team),
verbal toxicity,
spam pinging,
people who are assholes in champ select (ex: banning a teammate's prefered pick cuz they don't like the teammate's choice)
and postgame assholes (ex: "ez", "uninstall", "kys", "never play X again"),

I have to report at least one person every 2-3 games.

Granted, I report EVERY person who acts like a prick, even if it's not directed at me. Most people seem to think "if they're not being a douche to me then it's fine", so maybe that's why I report more often than others.

JorenciceApr 21, 20173 votes

I don't report afk as the system already reports them.

In all 5000+ of my games I've never once been spam pinged.

I don't report for bad choices. I ban leblanc a lot of the time because I have a 100% loss rate again't or with her.

ShinjusukeApr 21, 20172 votes

I don't report for bad choices: being bad is not reportable.

I DO report for people being dicks to others because they don't agree with the person's choice (like banning someone else's preference pick because they don't want the player to play that champion).

Also, if you've actually never been ping spammed in 5000+ games, you are an EXTREME outlier. Must be very lucky

eazymakaveli3Apr 21, 20172 votes

alt click then drags mouse to the left

YerroFeverApr 21, 20172 votes

I would say that there is a difference in how people perceive the world and it is clear that some people equate systematic and continuous pinging to "the first time their boss yells at them" because if a boss yells at you it's probably because you broke their rules, which you are subject to as they are your boss.... while a person on your team is more akin to your coworker. You all play by Riot's rules but you can do things that harass your coworkers and it should be addressed. If your coworker, during a meeting, stands up and slams the table 5 times in a row while you're talking, that's significantly more similar to this scenario. That coworker is intending to harass the coworker that is speaking, but it's disrupting the meeting for everyone in the room.

What this boss analogy fails to address is that pings don't just annoy the person, they annoy the team. 1 person's ping is heard by all 5 people on the team despite the intent that the systematic and continuous pings are intended to harass 1 person.

It's annoying to hear them even if you're not the intended target.

The person who spams pings is being disruptive to 3 other people while attempting to harass 1 person.

Harasser pings Target hears Bystander hears Bystander hears Bystander hears

CarlyRaeJepstanApr 22, 20172 votes

don't make questionable decisions and int kills and maybe you won't get pinged mate. but for real if pings are so intolerable to you that you have a mini meltdown you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your life and mentality. it's not even toxic, and easily ignored.

ShinjusukeApr 23, 20173 votes

Oh hey look another toxic player that pretends the people that they're douches to deserve it
If it doesn't get annoying for you, great. Or you've never had some asshole who you muted cuz they blamed everyone else for themselves being 0/27 start spamming "?" on you for 30 minutes nonstop.
Being "toxic" isn't subjective: If you're being a fucking prick to the other players in the game, you're being toxic. So yes, it is toxic. Trying to dismiss it because you're the type that does that sort of thing doesn't change anything.

Ramy FleshlightApr 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I mean, c'mon, really?

Smart Pings have been in the game a long time now.

When're we going to get a ping that isn't something every asshole in this game can use to spam

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

fucking constantly?

It's blatantly toxic, and it's not even something that is ever going to get caught by chat investigations because it looks totally legitimate outside actual gameplay.

Seriously, I feel like this is something that should've been noticed and changed ages ago, and I can't be the only one who gets irritated when some dumb asshole starts spam-pinging me ? FOR EVERY FUCKING THING THEY DISAGREE WITH. Or every thing they wanna whine about without getting caught. Or every single time you don't do EXACTLY what they tell you.

Seriously. This shit is stupid.

quit fucking over your team by making dumb choices and you wont get pinged

SeeingEyeHamsterApr 21, 20171 votes

I usally ping mia on a dead teamate once to basically ask them non verbally what happened. Usally 3/10 nowadays they think im toxic because of all the toxic pinging so im kinda mad

Raven RedeemedApr 21, 20172 votes

You should probably just ask them in chat if you really want to know. Right now it is just assumed to be a act of passive aggression.

ShinjusukeApr 21, 20171 votes

To add to this, if you're genuinely interested, don't type "?" or "why'd you die" either, that's basically the same thing.

Just ask "what happened" or "how'd you die?"

Asking "why" implies they CHOSE to get instakilled by Rengar or w/e happened. "How" gives them the option of explaining.

Spamming "?" is just as useless and stupid as when someone MIA's their missing laner while their missing laner is already killing someone, or when some idiot starts spamming "!" while their teammate is already getting jumped (I gurantee you, 100% of the time, your teammate KNOWS they need to retreat when they're at 1% hp with no summoners trying to outrun the master yi autoattacking them. You don't need to ping them.)

Raven RedeemedApr 21, 20171 votes

What if they did not allow you to ping close to allies, dead or alive. It wouldn't be a perfect fix, but I think if people did not understand who someone was pinging about it would really take the wind out of those passive aggressive sails.

ShinjusukeApr 21, 20171 votes

While that'd work, it'd be pretty easy to just replace the ? with something else.

I hesitate to say replacing it with "MIA" would be a good idea, because then people would just use it to harass teammates anytime the teammate didn't join a teamfight, or to harass the jungler if they aren't ganking that person's lane as much as that person wants.