blind reporting

scazzman·Aug 10, 2017·3 votes·773 views

A troubling thing im seeing on the boards are people openly admitting to /muting all and blindly reporting all 9 other players for chat. imo something needs to be done about this type of behavior. this isnt how the report system was intended to be used, and is borderline trolling.

a solution i had to this,

only send the IFS unmuted chatlogs during reports

meaning if someone reports you for toxic chat. only the logs that THEY are able to see are sent for review. draging the chatbox off screen or resizing it to be invisible should also be treated as muting.

this also prevents the enemy team from troll reporting a 5 man premade hoping for toxic logs

32 Comments

EvilDustManAug 10, 20173 votes

The solution to this is.

Don't be toxic.

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The solution to this is.

Don't be toxic.

is it really toxic if a 5man premade is bantering in teamchat and someone on the enemy team blindly reports all 9 players?

MysterQAug 10, 20171 votes

Is over-false reporting not eventually punishable? Although with league system 1 good report in 9 might flag as not false.

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Is over-false reporting not eventually punishable? Although with league system 1 good report in 9 might flag as not false.

nope. riot completely got rid of report weight and made it so every single report triggers a review

MysterQAug 10, 20171 votes

But I mean, the account if it fails 100 reviews the account reporting is never punished? Not ignored, but like punished for wasting... automated scanning time.

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But I mean, the account if it fails 100 reviews the account reporting is never punished? Not ignored, but like punished for wasting... automated scanning time.

Nope. Riot said they no longer punish false reports because they don't want people afraid to report for less obvious trolling

archerno1Aug 10, 20177 votes

{quoted}

nope. riot completely got rid of report weight and made it so every single report triggers a review

Report is meaningless if u arent breaking rules

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Report is meaningless if u arent breaking rules

Again. This isnt a discussion about breaking the rules. Please stop trying to deflect and derail my post

ChermorgAug 10, 20176 votes

It is though.

If you're robbing banks, but only ones without security cameras, you're still breaking the rules and showing a criminal attitude.

If you flame or are negative, even to a premade, you're showing that you don't care about being positive. It's likely your attitude is the same in normal games.

Thus you can and should be punished for any use of team or all chat that isn't game related or a positive thing.

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is though.

If you're robbing banks, but only ones without security cameras, you're still breaking the rules and showing a criminal attitude.

If you flame or are negative, even to a premade, you're showing that you don't care about being positive. It's likely your attitude is the same in normal games.

Thus you can and should be punished for any use of team or all chat that isn't game related or a positive thing.

ok. heres a scenario where this could be a problem

players A B C D E are in a 5 man premade

players V W X Y Z are in a 5 man premade as well.

at some point in the game, player A. "the adc" tells player B "the support" "fuck you you stole my kill, bastard" player B knows that he's obviously joking around. and doesnt report

player W "the enemy adc" is salty that they lost lane, so they blindly report all 5 players on the enemy team for toxic chat. assuming riot doesnt do this already. player A is now at risk of punishment because someone on the enemy team randomly decided to report them

ChermorgAug 11, 20172 votes

Did you not read the analogy?

There are some things that are never acceptable. Further, things that may not piss of your premade may make others mad, and by using them in a premade you're showing you have no problem typing those things in league.

You are punished for team chat with premades because it displays an attitude that that chat is acceptable. Using it with premades leads others to assume you don't care and will use it with others.

TL;DR: having a negative attitude with premades is a decent sign you probably also have one in other games, given human nature and psychology.

scazzmanAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Did you not read the analogy?

There are some things that are never acceptable. Further, things that may not piss of your premade may make others mad, and by using them in a premade you're showing you have no problem typing those things in league.

You are punished for team chat with premades because it displays an attitude that that chat is acceptable. Using it with premades leads others to assume you don't care and will use it with others.

TL;DR: having a negative attitude with premades is a decent sign you probably also have one in other games, given human nature and psychology.

That simply isnt true

Some people actually have the common sense to talk differently around their friends then they would around strangers,

And riot has explicitly stated that talking that way around your friends is perfectly fine as long as everyone is okay with it.

A better analogy would be a comedian on stage telling politically insensitive jokes. Everyone in the comedy club knows he's joking, and probably isnt really a bigoted person.

But that same comedian isnt going to just go to random people on the street telling racist jokes, and likely has different acts for different venues which may or may not allow certain types of humor.

ChermorgAug 11, 20172 votes

Riot has said that talking that way with your friends is okay as long as everyone is okay with it.

They have not said that talking that way will not be used as a game worthy of punishment.

It may not be punishable on its own, but it definitely helps show the pattern of toxicity that Riot looks for before punishing.

scazzmanAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Riot has said that talking that way with your friends is okay as long as everyone is okay with it.

They have not said that talking that way will not be used as a game worthy of punishment.

It may not be punishable on its own, but it definitely helps show the pattern of toxicity that Riot looks for before punishing.

that said, there needs to be safeguards in place to protect people against people who report blindly, and having the IFS only review logs from chat that the reporting player was actually able to see is a reasonable solution which would be unabusable and not take away from legitimate reports

ChermorgAug 11, 20172 votes

See, I’m on the other end of the spectrum. I fully support the IFS reviewing every game. There is no reason it should take a report to find toxicity, especially since people may have to skip end of game lobby due to bugs/crash/low spec mode.

The bottom line is the safeguard against “blind reports” is to not do things that are punishable.

Again. It’s like “but the store I robbed didn’t have any cops in it at the time... they just had security camera’s that caught me that I didn’t know about”.

scazzmanAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

See, I’m on the other end of the spectrum. I fully support the IFS reviewing every game. There is no reason it should take a report to find toxicity, especially since people may have to skip end of game lobby due to bugs/crash/low spec mode.

The bottom line is the safeguard against “blind reports” is to not do things that are punishable.

Again. It’s like “but the store I robbed didn’t have any cops in it at the time... they just had security camera’s that caught me that I didn’t know about”.

there is a huge difference between committing robbery and swearing in a video game. the fact you have to make that comparison means you're grasping at straws

and i disagree that people should have tow walk on eggshells in TEAM CHAT when people on the enemy team WHO CAN'T EVEN SEE IT might get salty and report you

ChermorgAug 11, 20172 votes

The analogy is the same. Your ignorance of the all knowing system that punished you does not mean you have the right to act inappropriately.

Integrity is behaving well/acting right when nobody's watching. You obviously have none.

Have some integrity. You behaved poorly and were punished in part for it. Own up to your mistakes and accept the consequences of your actions.

If you disagree with the punishment system, you're free to not play League.

A final note, using analogies is a common technique to show an idea. I am not comparing the actions of robbing and flaming, but the underlying concept is the same. It is not grasping at straws to use an analogy.

scazzmanAug 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The analogy is the same. Your ignorance of the all knowing system that punished you does not mean you have the right to act inappropriately.

Integrity is behaving well/acting right when nobody's watching. You obviously have none.

Have some integrity. You behaved poorly and were punished in part for it. Own up to your mistakes and accept the consequences of your actions.

If you disagree with the punishment system, you're free to not play League.

A final note, using analogies is a common technique to show an idea. I am not comparing the actions of robbing and flaming, but the underlying concept is the same. It is not grasping at straws to use an analogy.

i've already stopped playing because of people like you who refuse to cut people any slack and just REPORT REPORT REPORT. and this isnt about integrity. and the difference between bantering with friends and robbing a bank is robbing a bank is wrong whether you "get caught" or not. bantering with friends ISNT FUCKING HURTING ANYONE. yes. thats right. i said fuck. just because you're offended by fucking swear words doesnt mean you get to force your fucking opinion on people

ChermorgAug 11, 20171 votes

The fuck?

You think this is about swear words? I don't give a flying fuck if you use swear words.

If you're overly negative? Yeah. Get banned. Swear words or not.

I have told you that psychology states that a person's attitude around people they know or trust is generally correlated with their behavior around strangers. Most people can't see this in themselves, but it's true.

If you're negative with your friends, Riot treats it the same, because they can assume you'll be negative in other games.

Imperial PandaaAug 18, 20171 votes

I get what Scazz is saying with his.

They aren't using /All to talk, so the enemy team doesn't know what is being said. They are talking only to their premade team of 5.

Scazz is saying the enemy shouldn't be able to report for toxic chat since they never said anything that the other team saw.

Best way I can try and display it: Draven:[All] Welcome to the League of Dravvvvveeeen! Jax: [All] Glhf (misc talking in team chat) Draven: Jax why'd you take my kill you no good skill lacking bastard? Jax: Not my fault my lamp post is better than your axes you psycho. Draven: I'm not playing Jinx you blind potato. (more random team talk) (Jax and Draven win) Draven: [All] Thanks for playing. Better luck next time in the League of Draven! Jax: [All] Gg.

So the other team never saw the 5 premade messing with each other or saying anything in /All. But the losing side has a particularity salty player and decides to report them for negativity. Jax and Draven both get flagged because of the team chat that the salty player never saw. The salty player wasn't affected nor did they even see the chat so Scazz is asking why should the system punish them when the player reporting wasn't effected? (Doesn't effect me since I use comms when in premade and we verbally jest instead.)

Now granted Scazz actually means on the larger scale of people doing /mute all at the start and then reporting post game without seeing anything.

I guess an analogy would be hearing a wreck/accident behind you, turning around and then claiming you saw what happened to give a statement.

It is a reasonable question, especially since if someone was toxic, another who saw and was effected would probably report anyways.

At the risk of it being a tasteless question; Why would you ask a blind person what colors a painting has?

BettnachlegerAug 18, 20171 votes

It's sated a loooong time ago, that if you're in a 5 man premade and talk shit to each other and you get reported by the eneym for verbal abuse, the teamchat doesn't count. (as long as nodoby from your premade reported you) Why do people think, that Riot doesn't cover the simplest cases?

And false reports doens't do anything. So there is no need to be worry about shit like a guy who /mute all and report everyone, as long as you didn't do anything wrong.

Imperial PandaaAug 18, 20171 votes

I understand false reports don't do anything. Here, let me try changing it a bit. You have a 4 man premade and a random 5th. The 5th just mutes all, maybe he tells you maybe he doesn't. So this 5th member doesn't see anything that his team is saying so the 4 man premade decide to goof in team chat. Maybe they end up losing and the 5th player reports everyone in the premade for verbal abuse even though he didn't see anything.

Another instance, a team is really chill and no one knows another. They bs in team chat but leave all chat alone. They win and the enemy reports verbal abuse because salt. No one on the winning (the team that was messing around in team chat.) team reports one another because they had fun. They weren't a premade and got reported in spite despite the person not being affected by the chat?

Once again, I understand both sides of the argument. I'm simply trying to present what Scazz is saying in a slightly different way to help with amy confusion.

BettnachlegerAug 18, 20171 votes

I understand false reports don't do anything. Here, let me try changing it a bit. You have a 4 man premade and a random 5th. The 5th just mutes all, maybe he tells you maybe he doesn't. So this 5th member doesn't see anything that his team is saying so the 4 man premade decide to goof in team chat. Maybe they end up losing and the 5th player reports everyone in the premade for verbal abuse even though he didn't see anything.

If you're a 4 man premade and you feel like you have to "goof around", ask the other guy if he's okay with that. If not, just DON'T do that shit. Otherweise you will get reported anyway(in most of the cases). It's annoying as fuck if you play in a 4 man premade and they do nothing than flame each other "for fun". And it's still abuse of the chatfunktion. It doesn't even matter if he saw something or not. If you want to goof around, go use TS3 or discord or private chat or what ever.

Btw as I said, you can "goof around" as much as you want if you're in a** 5 man** premade. If you're not, and you still do this kind of shit, you HAVE to reckon that you will get a punishment for that sooner or later.

Another instance, a team is really chill and no one knows another. They bs in team chat but leave all chat alone. They win and the enemy reports verbal abuse because salt. No one on the winning (the team that was messing around in team chat.) team reports one another because they had fun. They weren't a premade and got reported in spite despite the person not being affected by the chat?

I would be suprised, if an report is affecting the teamchat of the opposite site. That wouldn't make any sense.

Imperial PandaaAug 18, 20171 votes

Once again, it doesn't affect me because I use voice comms when in a premade. I get it is just better to use comms. I am translating what I believe Scazz is trying to get across. It is hard to ask the 5th if he mutes all immediately or maybe if he did respond, what if the response was "Sure, I'm going to mute so I don't see though."? Then he reports for chat he didn't see.

That is part of what he is saying. The report flags the game on the player and checks the logs. Doesn't matter which chat was used.

scazzmanAug 10, 20171 votes

this isnt about whether or not the person being reported is toxic or not, this is about making it so people cant troll report the enemy team who may have not even used allchat. or mute all at the start of a game and then indiscriminately report people hoping they said something

EvilDustManAug 10, 20173 votes

It is rare, but has happened. Riot allowed it to be reversed after the entire team agreed. However, someone doesn't usually get banned for one game. That, coupled with the rarity of the scenario, the effort isn't worth it.

YerroFeverAug 10, 20173 votes

Remember, your false report actually does nothing. If the system checks your chat logs and nothing bad comes up, nothing happens and it doesn't count against you.

Whoever is doing this is most likely someone who has been punished and is trying to find problems with Riot's instant feedback system and then say "hey look, Riot's system wrongly banned people are popping up which proves I was wrongly banned too!"

BettnachlegerAug 18, 20171 votes

only send the IFS unmuted chatlogs during reports

So you can't use the mute funktion anymore? Or do you just have to take enough shit from a pissed guy until you can mute, because otherwise your report would du nothing?

scazzmanAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So you can't use the mute funktion anymore? Or do you just have to take enough shit from a pissed guy until you can mute, because otherwise your report would du nothing?

To clarify. Anything said before being muted is still analyzed, however. If you choose to abstain from participating in chat, imo you should not get to have an opinion what chat is reportable

BettnachlegerAug 19, 20171 votes

First time (after all your bullshit threads ;D) I kinda agree with you. IF you do a "mute all" at the **beginnig ** of a match, your report should'nt matter. After the first word, the report should matter I think.

MUSHROOM MIDGETAug 18, 20171 votes

it is not troubling or a problem. false reports do nothing. so it is perfectly fine to report everyone in the game. i fact i doubt reports do anything anyway. the automated system takes care of the punishing.