Me again. More wasted time

Demonkiller89·Mar 12, 2019·1 votes·3,085 views

I'm just writing this again to point out how much more time I am wasting in a game where I was autofilled. Tried to trade, no one wanted to. So instead of simply being able to pick my role, and enjoying the game how I want to play it. I've wasted nearly 40 minutes of my life and probably ruined an entire game for my team. Not because I wanted to like a troll, but because Riot still thinks a good idea to force players into role.

I've said it before, I will take a longer queue time to avoid wasting time playing a 40 minute game in a lane I dont want. Autofill and secondary roles should be optional if you want faster queues. Ill take a longer queue and get the lane I want. Everyone wins.

24 Comments

HotarµMar 12, 20193 votes

Isn't positional ranking being removed soon?

Edit: Yes, actually it's being removed tomorrow.

Demonkiller89Mar 12, 20191 votes

Its not my rank I'm worried about. I would gladly just take a loss if it meant I could leave the game and start a new one. But Riot doesn't let you leave a game. You have to wait until it is finished. So I am forced to play a 40 minute game.

HotarµMar 12, 20193 votes

In general you can't really leave MOBAs after they've already started. It sucks to get filled into a role you don't want but I imagine the queue times to get everyone their desired role 100% of the time would be massive and wouldn't be worth it for Riot to implement.

rujitraMar 12, 20192 votes

Most games that are multiplayer have penalties for leaving them - regardless of your reason or the type of game. For example WOW implements penalties for leaving at certain times early in a dungeon, CSGO implements penalties for people who leave a match early, many (not all) Battle Royale games implement some form of punishment for leaving before you die (you’re free to leave once you’re completely out of the match even if your teammates are still playing).

It’s not limited to MOBAs - it’s every multiplayer game, because you’re affecting other players, not just yourself.

HotarµMar 12, 20191 votes

Oh yeah, I'm aware that most games have penalties for leaving. Even some COD games have a leaverbuster-style system and XP-reductions in place.

I'm just saying that MOBAs are generally a bit more strict since they can last anywhere from 20-50+ minutes.

Demonkiller89Mar 12, 20191 votes

Agreed. You have to have penalties for leaving. And I am saying that I am ok with increased Q times. Why not have it as an opt in. If you want faster Qs, enable autofill and secondary roles. If you only want to play one role, enable increased Q time. I don't see a downfall here.

rujitraMar 12, 20191 votes

I’m not sure I’d say “more strict”, but definitely more memorable because people tend to remember leaving and being locked from a game for 20 minutes (or being in a game that someone left for 20 minutes). Just based on my knowledge and quick googling it seems that most multiplayer games have similar punishments for leavers: The game is a loss regardless of outcome, their matchmaking rating may be decreased a bit, their ranked rating will be decreased a bit, they will be barred from starting a new game while the current one is ongoing, and frequent players are issued cooldown times (sometimes up to 1 day in cooldown).

Red Mage FTSMar 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Its not my rank I'm worried about. I would gladly just take a loss if it meant I could leave the game and start a new one. But Riot doesn't let you leave a game. You have to wait until it is finished. So I am forced to play a 40 minute game.

You could dodge. Its what I do.

Kei143Mar 12, 20192 votes

Dodges don't stop you from being autofilled next game.

Red Mage FTSMar 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Dodges don't stop you from being autofilled next game.

Fair. As a supp main I almost always get my role, sorry my man.

Kei143Mar 12, 20191 votes

There is a way to get around autofill ... it will cost you a loss (-19LP) and around 6 minutes of your time.

Since it's a method that gets around the system, I don't think I'm allowed to recommend it.

Add me in game and I'll teach you how.

UpgradesMar 12, 20191 votes

If youre guaranteed to take a loss, might as well play it out and see if you do ok or get carried instead of taking the definite loss

Demonkiller89Mar 12, 20191 votes

I would even be ok just taking a loss on my account and avoiding the timeout penalty. The problem is, dodging doesn't guarantee that you won't get off role again next Q. And dodging twice makes it even worse. I just want a good explanation why letting me opt into a longer Q would be the best system.

Elite4RunnerMar 12, 20192 votes

I love when people talk about how certain situations while playing a video game is a "waste of time"

What exactly do you think you're getting out of this?

I mean, I find value in playing video games in general because they are entertaining and can often lead to developing skill, fundamentally (hand / eye coordination, critical thinking, adaptability) as well as specifically within the confines of the specific game. ... but you're still just playing a game.

Some of the most valuable things that come from this game on a subjective level come from pro-play and content creation.

Pro players, will not consider an off-role match to be a waste of time because learning all roles within the game is INCREDIBLY VALUABLE.

Content creators generally have decent skills in all positions, and will even still upload content from matches where they don't win simply because they still offer entertainment value (good content creators that is).

If your time is so precious that a 40 minute off-role match is honestly a "waste", ... you should either not be launching your client to begin with, ... OR, more likely, you need to reevaluate the value of your time.

Demonkiller89Mar 12, 20191 votes

I'm not a pro or a content creator so what they find valuable doesn't effect me. What I am is a player that has spent countless hours and money on this game. I enjoy the game, but what I don't enjoy is being forced to play it in a specific way that I don't find interest. You are basically saying that if I were to play a FPS game then I should just be assigned a gun an have to deal with it for 40 minutes.

Your argument is a bit ridiculous.

Elite4RunnerMar 13, 20191 votes

That isn't ridiculous at all. There are lots of FPS situations where you don't have the gun that you want.

Even if you get the position you want, you're still have the same opportunity to get just as much value out of any match.

You're denying yourself your own entertainment, not Riot.

EedatMar 13, 20192 votes

Autofill is necessary so that role selection can function period. If you don't like it, we can go back to pick order where you get your preferred role far less.

It isn't just slightly longer queues. Role selection effectively DOES NOT FUNCTION without it.

Its a basic term called bottlenecking where the least queued for role now grinds the entire system to a halt. It is an absolute basic of designing any sort of assembly line system that they all have to have the same production rate or none of it works. Sorry, there aren't going to be queues that are quite literally hours long for multiple roles just because you refuse to play off role occasionally. Considering you play the most queued for role, you're fucked. You're just going to have to suck it up like how 99.9% of other players do.

Demonkiller89Mar 13, 20191 votes

I guess you missed the part where I said "optional" If most people don't care like you assume, then most people will opt in for the shorter Qs and the auto fill potential. If, however, you would rather wait for an opening on your preferred role, you would opt into longer Qs. These options aren't mutually exclusive. Thanks for the unnecessary and incorrect attempt at explaining a problem that doesn't exist.

EedatMar 13, 20191 votes

and you missed the part where I said

Role selection effectively DOES NOT FUNCTION without it.

You cant just have people opt out, It doesn't work. In fact,** it would make things even worse** as a disproportionate amount of people with popular roles would opt out. You think Riot would launch it and keep it around for the entire existence of role selection for no reason?

It. Is. 100%. Completely. Necessary. Not. An. Option.

So keep the snarky remarks to yourself until you have a very basic understanding of why it has to exist in the first place. The rest of us aren't waiting in an hour+ queue and getting auto filled every other game because you're being a baby that can't play off role once every ten or twenty games. Get over it. It's not a big deal. The alternative is to go back to pick order and get our roles much less frequently.

Demonkiller89Mar 13, 20191 votes

You are making assertions without offering an explanation as to why. You can't say a thing wont work because I said it wont work. If you opt in for a quick Q with auto fill then presumably you will get matched with 4 other people that have also opted into that in the same amount of time as a Q now take. Unless you are suggesting that the LoL player base is so small that it can't sustain a portion willing to wait, then nothing changes for those that opt for auto fill.

Its simple. I select: I want Mid and Mid only. I am willing to wait in a line of Mid only Qs until its my turn regardless of the time it takes. I want Mid or Top. I am willing to wait in a line of Mid and Top Qs until it is my turn regardless of the time it takes. I would prefer Mid, but I'll take the next available role. Please put me in the Mid Q for X number of minutes before placing me in Q for any available role. (Possibly even with a "cut in line" bonus because I'm willing to auto fill)

Those options seem pretty straight forward to me, and would not increase the overall Q time for the members choosing the 3rd option. I understand that the algorithms would need to be tweaked and numbers tests, but I think a system like this would vastly improve the average qualify of a given players time with the game as well as eliminate 1 possible reason for troll/griefing players. This in no way effects the role selection process as you seem to believe it does. Bigger font or not.

EedatMar 13, 20192 votes

Let me make this very simple for you. You have a production line with just 2 stations (keep in mind its 5 stations for a LoL team). Station 1 produces 10 units per minute. These units get moved down the line to station 2. However, Station 2 is only capable of producing 8 units per minute. So the 10 units arrive from Station 1 and after a minute station 2 gets through the 8 units then the next batch of 10 shows up from Station 1. This is an issue because Station 2 still has 2 units they didn't get to. Now there are 12 units waiting to be produced, two more than last minute. Another minute goes by and station 2 gets though 8 more units before the next 10 show up from station 1. Now there are 14 units waiting for station two, or four more than the original. Next minute there are 6 more. Then 8 more. Then 10, 12, 14, etc more. This process repeats indefinitely until there are thousands of units being bottlenecked by station 2.

Now how do you fix this? Well you simply take some of your workers from station 1 and put them in station 2. Now both stations produce 9 units per minute and everything runs perfectly. This is exactly what autofill is. This is exactly why IT ISN'T AN OPTION. Queue times will literally increase INDEFINITELY for every role except the least played one. Not just 5 minutes. Not just 10 minutes. INDEFINITELY. Without autofill, literally the single limiting factor on queue times will be how long it takes for the people at the front to get sick of waiting and leave queue.

People have to, and I repeat HAVE TO, be autofilled. It is not an option. Your solution of just letting people absolutely refuse to leave their station does not work and is incredibly selfish. X number of people have to be autofilled. If half the people absolutely refuse to leave their station, literally the only other option is to autofill the remaining half twice as much. Nah dude. We're not playing double autofill because you're being a baby that won't play off role.

Just get over it. It's not even a big deal.

Demonkiller89Mar 14, 20191 votes

You're leaving out the pool of "flex" employees in your example. Employees that are ok with any role so long as they get the product as quickly as possible. Your line "Just get over it. It's not even a big deal" places you in that pool of employees who value quick products rather than preferred jobs. With Leagues player base, I imagine that a good majority of people will find they feel that way and the system will balance out.

AeroWaffleMar 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

You are making assertions without offering an explanation as to why. You can't say a thing wont work because I said it wont work. If you opt in for a quick Q with auto fill then presumably you will get matched with 4 other people that have also opted into that in the same amount of time as a Q now take. Unless you are suggesting that the LoL player base is so small that it can't sustain a portion willing to wait, then nothing changes for those that opt for auto fill.

Its simple. I select: I want Mid and Mid only. I am willing to wait in a line of Mid only Qs until its my turn regardless of the time it takes. I want Mid or Top. I am willing to wait in a line of Mid and Top Qs until it is my turn regardless of the time it takes. I would prefer Mid, but I'll take the next available role. Please put me in the Mid Q for X number of minutes before placing me in Q for any available role. (Possibly even with a "cut in line" bonus because I'm willing to auto fill)

Those options seem pretty straight forward to me, and would not increase the overall Q time for the members choosing the 3rd option. I understand that the algorithms would need to be tweaked and numbers tests, but I think a system like this would vastly improve the average qualify of a given players time with the game as well as eliminate 1 possible reason for troll/griefing players. This in no way effects the role selection process as you seem to believe it does. Bigger font or not.

The issue with such an implementation is that it has the potential to cause a compounding problem.

Let's say a majority of people queue for option 1 or 2, filling up the wait time for commonly queued rolls quite a bit. People queuing for the 3rd option would then almost certainly be placed into a less popular role when their safety timer ran out regardless of which role they had as a preferred. This causes the third option to not be, "Queue for your role but might get autofilled into less popular role" to be, "Get least popular roles almost guaranteed".

Because of this, even less people would queue for this third option. Making the third option even more likely to never give you a popular role. This cycle would continue further increasing the wait times for the other two queue types to the point where none of the options look good to someone who doesn't have the time to wait absurd amounts of time in queue but want to play a popular role.

Telephone BoothMar 15, 20191 votes

That would mean more autofills for those who dont want the long queue times. Tons of people demanding mid, means that if i even want a chance at mid, im probably gonna get autofilled, unless i check that no autofill box, which then means i might be waiting 20 minutes. Im fine with how long i have to wait vs the chance of being autofilled. I mean, it only happens like 20% of the time. Learn the game man. Theres more to it than just your favorite role. Learn some other roles... theyre a VERY big part of the game.

Like, I'm sorry but if you want to play league, you have to accept all of league. You cant just play one aspect of it all the time. Its a team game. If it was just a single player game, yeah that would make sense.