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oh boy 25 game chat restriction!

Arcade Andrew··1 votes·536 views

TLDR: I deserved it: but why hasnt riot done anything to start getting rid of what makes people toxic in the first place

I deserved it tbh, but I love the fact that league still doesnt have a system to prevent lp loss when i lose a game from feeders/afks/trolls (the only time i actually rage)

edit: this isnt me trying to say i dont deserve it btw, this is just a general complaint that the only time I rage is when paired with somebody who leaves after the game starts, decides to be toxic to me (yet riot says i cant defend myself when a teammate is constantly telling the enemy team im a troll) or when somebody intentionally feeds or plays worse than even a sane normal person would play on tilt.

This is just a general complaint that riot would rather focus on people being nice to each other rather than fixing the things that actually make people be toxic to begin with.

for me I know i get toxic when: -A teamate goes 0/10 by 5 minutes in -A team mate goes into all chat and starts saying im feeding/bad when ive only died 1 or 2 times -A team mate leaves AFTER the game has started, at any given time -A teammate or enemy team member tells me how to play the game assuming they are better than me (IE they call be scrub/noob/ fucking idiot etc if i build BT first on jhin) -Any type of trolling or what not in champ select -Any type of purposeful trolling in game -when I get matched with players who have worse overall stats than me or w/l ratio than me and the enemy team has super high stats and win rates. (IE if my kda is on average 5/6 I would rather be paired with people with a kda of 5/6 not 0/6) -When people play things for the first time in ranked -When people refuse to do anything and never help the team

those are just a few things that i can think of that riot could focus on fixing rather than just being like "oh you were mean to a feeder! you get a chat ban now! oh and because we cant actually prove he was feeding we just assume hes really bad so he wont get punished!"

24 Comments

Magical Player1 votes

Show us a system that could prevent lp loss and gain for both teams because of one troll/feeder/afker

Arcade Andrew1 votes

Well My idea of a system is fluctuating LP gains/losses

so for example if you lose a game, but you lost it because of a toxic player, if that toxic player gets punished, your lp for that game and mmr stats would be removed (lost or gained) same for the enemy team, they wouldnt be given the lp for that match.

another idea is:

if somebody leaves the game or is marked afk, give us the remake option, both teams dont win or lose anything and the leaver gets the punishment.

feeding one idea ive had was: if they continually do bad over a period of RANKED GAMES only and people report them for it, they should be forced to win a certain amount of non ranked games, also prevent newly purchased champs or newly released ones

CooL Ice Tea1 votes

same for the enemy team, they wouldnt be given the lp for that match.

If i am in the winning team, why should I get punished because somebody flamed in the enemy team which i didn't even read since I don't use the chat? Explain that to me. 5 People which don't get rewarded because there is a flamer.

AeroWaffle1 votes

You're punished for your behavior, not anyone else's. You're in control of your own actions.

And judging from your match history, I see a game that I suspect you were trolling at the end.

Arcade Andrew1 votes

And my actions come from other peoples behavior.

Everyone is toxic for some reason, they dont choose to be toxic, somebody pisses them off. if you start at the root of it (behaviors that cause people to rage in the first place) you can control toxic behavior better than telling somebody they cant tell a troll to fuck off.

Im not saying I dont deserve it (If you read I said i do)

but its a pointless system that makes riot look like they favor trolls afks and feeders.

AeroWaffle1 votes

No. Your actions are always your choice.

How they behave does not control what you do, you're the one who decides to act on your emotions.

Kei1431 votes

I don't get why people feel all the need to defend themselves.

If you didn't do anything wrong then the reports won't do anything.

What is there to defend? Is that e-ego really that fragile?

Arcade Andrew1 votes

Its not so much defending yourself as it is, you cant say anything in your defense or against them otherwise youre in the wrong. IE: they get a "free" game to shit talk you all they want until its over, and you cant do anything about it.

You try and stop it? you can be reported and punished for it.

they accuse you of being toxic in ally chat, the enemy team believes them then you get reported and punished if you said even a curse word

this new automated system is alot better than the old one that would punish you on report frequency, but this one is automated in the sense that you say a bad word and got reported? ok black mark on your record.

oh three games like that? punishment!

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gNNgixix,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-31T21:00:16.597+0000)

Its not so much defending yourself as it is, you cant say anything in your defense or against them otherwise youre in the wrong. IE: they get a "free" game to shit talk you all they want until its over, and you cant do anything about it.

You try and stop it? you can be reported and punished for it.

they accuse you of being toxic in ally chat, the enemy team believes them then you get reported and punished if you said even a curse word

this new automated system is alot better than the old one that would punish you on report frequency, but this one is automated in the sense that you say a bad word and got reported? ok black mark on your record.

oh three games like that? punishment!

The challenge is to create such a system to distinguish provocative and reactive toxicity, and the context they were said, sadly it's very difficult.

Given the richness of human speech, toxicity can be hide under multiple layers, passive aggressive/sarcasm. It also needs to take the game state into account "who starts feeding and who made what decision to piss the other off". The only possible solution is to create a neuron AI to Analyze the whole game's data and learn about them in depth, which comes with its own problem.

First of all, LOL doesn't have a good game data log. We only have a grossly general end of game stats, and an overly detailed full replay. Riot would have to implement something to create and appropriate log of game events.

Second it's very expensive to build one. You need to hire more engineers, make the game slower by generating more data, and have supervised learning of the AI for a very long time.

That being said, it's possible Riot is indeed implementing something similar. The new report system appear to have at least some learning ability. It's only based on report and chat log though. They didn't disclose much about it so we don't know too much about how it works. (as far as I remember, it's based on report validation(how accurate/valuable a report is) and string analysis).

Arcade Andrew1 votes

Thats my point though is that riot spent all this money on a system that is really only good for punishing people based on speech rather than working on a system that detects what causes players to be toxic and put out those fires before they even have a chance to cause a normal person to become toxic.

why not put a stop to the behaviors that cause toxicity.

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gNNgixix,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-31T21:00:16.597+0000)

Its not so much defending yourself as it is, you cant say anything in your defense or against them otherwise youre in the wrong. IE: they get a "free" game to shit talk you all they want until its over, and you cant do anything about it.

You try and stop it? you can be reported and punished for it.

they accuse you of being toxic in ally chat, the enemy team believes them then you get reported and punished if you said even a curse word

this new automated system is alot better than the old one that would punish you on report frequency, but this one is automated in the sense that you say a bad word and got reported? ok black mark on your record.

oh three games like that? punishment!

  1. If by "defending yourself" you mean fighting fire with fire (i.e. raging back at them in the chat) then yes you can be reported and punished for it. If by "defending yourself" you mean fighting fire with fun (i.e. responding to negativity with positivity) then no you can't be punished for it.
  2. If you said or did nothing wrong then who cares if they report you? Those reports will be false and thrown out and their report weight will be lowered, placing less value on future reports if they continue to make false reports.
  3. It takes more than three games to get punished. Being punished requires consistent negative behavior across multiple games. The 3 games that show up in your reform card are recent games you were reported in.
Arcade Andrew1 votes

by defending myself I mean something along the lines of "velkoz: report jhin hes trolling and feeding me: no.. Im not im only stating facts of the game and chatting with the enemy, facts like my score is only x/x/x while yours is 0x10x5 and i havent died to my enemy laner yet so you cant blame me for feeding her."

Kei1432 votes

if that is how you defend yourself and the only thing you said, then you are safe from being punished.

seeing that you got punished, there must be something else you said that triggered the positive report.

Care to post the chat logs so we can dissect them for you? or do you have enough information to know what not to do so you don't get punished again?

Kei1431 votes

Time for some myth busting.

You try and stop it? you can be reported and punished for it.

I've stopped many people from being toxic to others before. Mainly the abuse onto others (cos I don't care much about what they say to me)., my account is fine. Never gotten a punishment.

they accuse you of being toxic in ally chat, the enemy team believes them then you get reported and punished if you said even a curse word

Curse words alone don't get you punished. Curse words directed at others as an insult will get you punished.

this new automated system is alot better than the old one that would punish you on report frequency, but this one is automated in the sense that you say a bad word and got reported? ok black mark on your record.

Back in the days, the frequency of report will get you into the tribunal. It is the 'auto-punish' spammers that get others punished, which is why the tribunal isn't effective.

Of course, if you do get validly reported, it will be a black mark on your record regardless of the new or old system.

oh three games like that? punishment!

The report card shows 3 recent games of unacceptable behavior as examples only. Doesn't mean one was only validly reported in 3 games.

Around a month ago, there was a guy complaining about being permabanned with negative chat. He showed 3 games of chat log and complained here on the forums.

Riot Tantrum came here and smited him, telling him since his 14-day ban, he has been validly reported 76 times.

The lack of clarity on the reform card / behavioral system does indeed contribute to how people get confused about how the system works. Personally, I really do hope that they will push out new clarity features after the new client is complete.

Arcade Andrew1 votes

See I know i deserved this chat rest. Im not denying it, the point is they need a system that rather focuses on the types of conduct that make people toxic in the first place.

for example: Im never toxic win or lose when I know my team is playing right, and actually trying and not giving up.

BUTTT if we are winning then get aced and lose an inhib and somebody starts saying shit like "wtf play better gg /ff now you fucks threw" im going to get very annoyed and angry at that person because we will lose since they decide to flame us for losing one fight until we actually lose

Kei1431 votes

that has nothing to do with the need to defend yourself and how you understand how the behavioral system works.

That's just a typical dude getting tilted off the face of earth.

Arcade Andrew1 votes

but what Im saying is, riot should instead focus on stomping out that behavior rather than "oh he told this guy to shut the fuck up? PUNISH!"

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gNNgixix,comment-id=000200000002000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-01T01:02:16.218+0000)

but what Im saying is, riot should instead focus on stomping out that behavior rather than "oh he told this guy to shut the fuck up? PUNISH!"

They do, but by not retaliating you ensure that only they get punished for poor behavior and not the both of you.

Kei1431 votes

Why not punish both?

Arcade Andrew1 votes

They should punish both, but when they spend all this money target solely toxic players they leave out the fact that normal people who arent toxic on a everday basis will have something that pushes all their buttons making them rage out. they can prevent that rage out all together

ModPrandine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gNNgixix,comment-id=00020000000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-02-01T01:17:19.641+0000)

They should punish both, but when they spend all this money target solely toxic players they leave out the fact that normal people who arent toxic on a everday basis will have something that pushes all their buttons making them rage out. they can prevent that rage out all together

Riot fully understands that people have off-days which is exactly why it's only consistent negative behavior that gets punished.

CooL Ice Tea1 votes

You try and stop it? you can be reported and punished for it.

Don't you get that if YOU shit talk him back when HE started to be toxic that HE is in the same possibility as YOU to get punished? If you erase YOUR flame then the only one which is in the possibility to get punished is the one which started it.

Doesn't that make sense?

Bettnachleger1 votes

lol some of your recent games: 0/5, 18 cs 1/7, 73 cs 0/7, 28 cs 1/4. 34 cs 4/17 1/8 3/6, 73 cs

You're THAT feeding, afking, trolling guy, that makes you mad ....

Edit: Every game was 20 + minutes

Arcade Andrew1 votes

3/6 teemo top, 3/6 is bad? thats pretty average if you ask me for when you lose game as a squish top 1/8:where? the closest is 1/7 4/17: again where do you see that game lol theres not even a game where i went about 15 deaths in my most recent games... goood job trying to slander me 1/4: also not there unless you mean my 1/5 garen SUPPORT game (cant get a high kda when you support tryna feed your adc) 0/7: also not there: there is however a 1/7 game where everyone on my team had bad scores which i duoed with a friend and we had a good time and didnt rage 1/7:see above 0/5: so a guy cant play veigar support without you talking shit about me then sell all my items and buy dorans right before we lose? mmkay

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