Riot seriously needs to redefine their definition of a troll build

General Esdeath ·Oct 2, 2017·1 votes·528 views

Every time someone is reported as trolling via build, Riot takes it as "This person is playing something not META, ban them!" (or goes off topic) when in reality most people don't care as long as they're playing a viable build. I don't want a Miss Fortune support with TP that builds full AP when we really need a locket or Crucible to keep the team alive, instead of a quick burst of 100 magic damage from her E or 200 damage from her ult. I don't want an AP Riven building lich bane because "double passive".

I don't care if that Riven goes AD/Crit, because it's viable. If that Amumu wants to go full AP, more power to you my man, because it's viable.

34 Comments

ModUlanopoOct 2, 201710 votes

when we really need a locket or Crucible to keep the team alive

That's you telling other people how to play. If you think the support needs to have Locket or Crucible, you should play support and build those items. Otherwise, you should focus on your play and build. In doing so, you'll rise above people who make suboptimal choices - unless you're one of those people.

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20171 votes

I do play support, I just rotate between it and top. And guess what, I don't troll when I do it. I build what we need. Do we have a Jhin? I won't rush Ardent since it's not as good for him. Know what is? That Crucible for when the enemy Veigar stuns him.

This is the exact problem I'm talking about, you want to go off topic instead of talking about someone trolling in a game, not trying to win (something Riot brandishes as its determining factor between a troll or a bad game). An item =/= telling someone how to play.

TrulyBlandOct 2, 20174 votes

The issue here is that you are implying they don't want to win simply because you disagree with their choices. Even if they were objectively bad choices it would not necessarily imply that they don't want to win as it can just be the result of ignorance and valuing their own estimate more than yours.

What Ulanapo pointed out is not off-topic at all. There is a thin line between condemning trolling and elitism, and with the segment he quoted he showed that you decidedly stepped over it.

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20171 votes

No there's a lot more beyond just the items. They constantly wanted to fight a fed mid laner as a support. When we told her to back off with baron buff she just ran into the enemy. Argued and flamed with our adc, and just wasn't trying.

Ulanapo is going off topic. He's telling me to play support. First off, I do. Second, how does it change someone else trolling in game?

TrulyBlandOct 2, 20173 votes

The point he made was that if you want a certain role to be played 100% as you want it to be played, you have to play it yourself. That's very much on-topic, as long as you don't take it entirely out of context.

Speaking of off-topic:

Riot seriously needs to redefine their definition of a troll build

Every time someone is reported as trolling via build [...]

most people don't care as long as they're playing a viable build

and now you say

No there's a lot more beyond just the items

It seems to me you need to decide what point you are trying to make. Is this about trolls in general, or identifying trolls based on the items they buy?

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20171 votes

Except I'm not asking for one specific way to play/build a role, I'm asking to actually punish people taking builds that aren't viable and aren't trying to win.

My boy you're taking 2 different parts of a 2 part argument and presenting them as if they're supposed to be the same thing.

TrulyBlandOct 2, 20173 votes

My boy you're taking 2 different parts of a 2 part argument and presenting them as if they're supposed to be the same thing.

No, I'm attacking one part of your two part argument that you keep switching off and on depending on whether or not somebody has just made a counter argument on it.

To put it into two simple questions: Who gets to decide what is a viable itembuild? How does an "unviable" itembuild give sufficient evidence of somebody not trying to win?

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20171 votes

Anyone with common sense
I said there was more than the build, which was called "bad decision making"

TrulyBlandOct 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Anyone with common sense

I said there was more than the build, which was called "bad decision making"

Same question on the next level: Who decides who has common sense?
Once again you manage to drop half your argument the moment a counter is presentend... make up your mind: Do the items matter or do they not?

CooL Ice TeaOct 2, 20171 votes

My boy you're taking 2 different parts of a 2 part argument and presenting them as if they're supposed to be the same thing.

he didn't for real, and you are not really good with arguments man (after reading every post here) :/

This Is Your DadOct 2, 20173 votes

Why even bother having an item selection then? It should just autoselect the items the adc wants you to have. Might as well give you control of the champ too. You can manage two champs right? Crucible is hardly ever heard of in low elo. I like it, but it's effect isn't as necessary in most of my games because the cc is either pile on cc or my adc doesn't know that he's been cleansed so he just stands there until he dies.

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20171 votes

Because there are multiple items we can use that are viable. You can be a damage mage support but guess what, when it doesn't work, you shouldn't flame your adc.

ModUlanopoOct 2, 20172 votes

This is the exact problem I'm talking about, you want to go off topic instead of talking about someone trolling in a game, not trying to win (something Riot brandishes as its determining factor between a troll or a bad game). An item =/= telling someone how to play.

What I'm trying to explain is that you have a definition of trolling that is both unreasonable and untenable. Just because someone doesn't build the way you expect doesn't make them a troll. It's very possible to have simple differences of opinion.

General Esdeath Oct 3, 20171 votes

Except item 3151 item 3089 item 3285 item 3135 are not support items.

If you had items that SUPPORTED us and then some AP, I would say it's a burst mage support

TrulyBlandOct 3, 20171 votes

Playing the support position doesn't mean limiting yourself to champions and item builds that others see as supportive.

There has always been a difference between the player role of support and champions (or items) with the support tag.

General Esdeath Oct 3, 20171 votes

It's not limiting, I said if they had at least some support items. I've had Sona supports with full AP and then item 3504 and I find it viable.

If my Soraka wants to go full AD but has item 3504 then I'm gonna question who hurt them as a child but they're still SUPPORTING the team with it.

TrulyBlandOct 3, 20171 votes

What you find viable is irrelevant. What the person playing finds viable is the only thing that really matters. Playing the support role does not mean you need to buy support items. Period.

I've had games where we steamrolled the enemy so heavily in early game that I found it more useful to go full AP on a support than buy support items. And I made that call because it's my call to make. Not any of my teammates'. If it backfires, it backfires, if it works, it works. But you don't get to tell me that I was trolling because of a choice that I made because I felt it would increase the likelihood of winning.

Short version: You don't get to make choices for other people.

ModUlanopoOct 3, 20173 votes

As far as Riot is concerned, outside of builds that are EXPLICITLY non-viable (all Tears, mana builds on energy champions, etc.) your opinion on what other people build is entirely irrelevant. Riot is never going to punish people for daring to disagree with you or anyone else who want to micromanage their allies. That's just not a thing that's going to happen.

In the end, the only way to ensure someone builds the way you expect is to either play the role yourself or queue with someone who shares your priorities.

VoIdymortOct 2, 20172 votes

I don't want a Miss Fortune support with TP that builds full AP when we really need a locket or Crucible to keep the team alive,

I don't want an AP Riven building lich bane because "double passive".

people not doing what you want =/= trolling

I don't care if that Riven goes AD/Crit, because it's viable. If that Amumu wants to go full AP, more power to you my man, because it's viable.

dem double standards...

so... tl;dr it's ok if people build off whatever they want as long as you personally don't mind. Me thinks the air in that ivory tower of yours has gotten a bit damp from all the salt...

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

No, playing while trying to lose is trolling.

VoIdymortOct 2, 20172 votes

They constantly wanted to fight a fed mid laner as a support. When we told her to back off with baron buff she just ran into the enemy. Argued and flamed with our adc, and just wasn't trying.

bad decision making due to an inflated ego =/= trying to lose

you're supposed to know this since you seem to know all about inflated egos,...

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

There's bad choices, and there's clearly trying to lose.

VoIdymortOct 2, 20173 votes

and there's clearly trying to lose.

it's clear from your perspective, but not necessarily from theirs. some people are just bad at decision making.

if you need an example of self destruction due to bad decision making then how about all the unintentional teen pregnancies in spite of all the birth control methods?

people are stupid

why is this concept so hard for you to wrap your mind around?

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

Now imagine if a teenager said "Yeah I slept with 10 guys without birth control while telling them to make me a mother, but I was just having a bad day, not trying to get pregnant."

VoIdymortOct 2, 20173 votes

yeah... it's called "having a bad day" or "being drunk".

i'm starting to think i'm talking to a wall of inflexible opinion

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

A bad day is not when you intend to do something

I'm starting to think you're pranking me.

VoIdymortOct 2, 20173 votes

when you leave the house after a blizzard and you slip on a patch of ice on the ground and fall on your bum, did you intend to leave the house so you could slip and fall or are you having a bad day?

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

My fault for not coming with spiked cleats to stick in the ice :^)

Milodic MellodiOct 2, 20171 votes

Except no one looks outside their window on a snowy day and thinks "Well, time to bring out the ol' spikes!" Someone drives by a mountain and it happens to landslide. Did they intend to get crushed by the falling dirt avalanche or are they just having a bad day?

wei270Oct 2, 20171 votes

well don't get crushed by a falling avalanche it is that easy lol.

but seriously when you do get crushed by a falling avalanches , your intends in the matter is irrelevant, because you die you lose.

Milodic MellodiOct 2, 20172 votes

When you're about to get crushed, you can't just intentionally not get caught in it. It's not "easy". And you're entirely missing the point we're trying to make.

General Esdeath Oct 2, 20172 votes

You don't plan to wear snow shoes when you see the snow and ice?

Also there's a sign warning you.

Milodic MellodiOct 2, 20171 votes

You obviously didn't read. I said "landslide" and "land avalanche".

General Esdeath Oct 3, 20171 votes

I was replying to your remark about the spikes. I always look outside before I dress for a walk.