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Suicide split pushing when your entire team is getting dumpstered isn't intentional feeding.

DunkinNoobs··13 votes·2,910 views
http://imgur.com/aiwNwjA

It's the only prayer you have of winning the game. The score was 2-17 at around 12 minutes; there is absolutely no chance we win straight fights and our only hope is to farm as much as possible and hope my team can win with a numbers advantage while enemies come and get "free" kills on me. Yes, I went 0/13/0. I'm playing a farm reliant champion that can't freeze a wave and I'm against a very fed Pantheon and a Fizz that has roamed to my lane several times. My entire team is very, very behind. Our only hope to win is that I can draw enough people top that my team can have time to farm elsewhere on the map and perhaps win an uneven fight, which they managed to do a few times. I even managed to get our only 2 towers of the game. Obviously, it wasn't enough. And I'll be honest, I wasn't exactly the most positive player this game because not only were we getting completely dumpstered, but the whole team environment was pretty negative and it's really hard to not get sucked into that shit. But I wasn't intentionally feeding. I was merely doing what I believed would give us the greatest chance of victory. I've won games using this very strategy in the past; it's not suddenly trolling because we lost.

P.S. Hopefully now this post won't get deleted for naming and shaming since I blacked out all the names but my own.

34 Comments

Boulderox5 votes

I mean, the fact that if you die you are worth no gold at all, if you pull even 2 of em, thats a good thing.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

How do you think my team got 5 more kills before the game ended? How do you think we got a dragon when we were that far behind? Because their team literally could not resist coming up top and killing the worthless Kayle. And it's not like I was dying for free either; I got our only 2 towers of the game like I already said and I also kept Pantheon and Fizz away from bot lane so Vayne could farm.

DrCyanide2 votes

They changed the gold values in 5.22 (the Wiki is still based on 1.0 something), I don't think your gold value goes below 300 now.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes

Boulderox1 votes

Well then, that stinks

Ruin Lance1 votes

i was playing a game yesterday as thresh and i swear when i killed someone i only got like 196 gold.

Kei1431 votes

I win. I killed a support once a month ago for 68g

Sugar Momma3 votes

The fact you got two towers shows that you weren't intentionally feeding. Yes, you were putting yourself in a situation to die but you were dying strategically. This is a dumb ban.

Wiretap2 votes

You can split without feeding so much, just know when to leave. I mean they are on their way they aren't fighting your team, you don't have to die to them. You can back off and swap lanes.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

When it's 2-17, simply being anywhere outside of your base puts you in immense danger. We have 0 vision control. 3 people are their team are fed enough to solo me and mobile enough to chase me down no matter which way I run. Remember, there's literally no pressure anywhere else on the map from my team so the enemy can just gank me from their own jungle at basically any time. I have 2 choices; I can either push and pressure towers and accept that I'm going to die for doing so, or I can just play safe and deny myself when we're already super far behind. Option 2 is automatically out because doing nothing means we lose by default since my team is also getting shit on. That means option 1 is the way to go. And hell, I was already like 0/6 at 10 minutes from how hard I got camped by their mid and jungler, so it's not like they're getting meaningful gold from killing me. Those 2 towers I got from that pushing gave our team far more gold (1845 gold) than the enemy team got for killing me 7 more times (362 gold+ a couple assists) when I was already 0/6. Not to mention all the farm I got from pushing and the farm my team got from me getting Pantheon and Fizz off their back for a while.

Wiretap3 votes

Or you can get a blue ward, push lane, when you have people leave vision, back off.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

It's not even worth it to back off. The amount of gold they get for killing me at that point is so small and the value I gain from pushing is so great that it is 100% worth dying for. Remember, this game is a total stomp at this point and forcing my team into a potential 4v5 scenario doesn't mean jack shit when we already can't do anything 5v5.

Gregor Gysi3 votes

That tactic isn't really effective anymore given how long death timers are. Also, seeing how drastically your team outscales theirs and how effective Kayle ult is against Fizz/Panth you should have tried to defend against their siege. That being said suicide splitpushing is still not intentional feeding. Just because you are not playing optimally that doesn't mean that you deserve a ban. However, your attitude is an entirely different matter.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Our team doesn't get time to scale if we just group up. Like I said, the score was 2-17 at 12 minutes. The enemy was already close to knocking on our inhib turrets, none of us are strong yet, and Panth and Fizz are both strong enough to just 1 shot people. And it's not like I can ult while stunned regardless. So I made a conscious decision: draw people away from my team as much as possible and try to gain some desperately needed map control. And it worked to an extent. Vayne got a fair bit of time to farm for free while their team is chasing me around, I got minions to start pushing to their side of the map, and I also got a good chunk of change for my team by getting those 2 towers. Say what you want about my attitude, but I made a conscious decision to do what was best for the team despite being flamed by most of them. The gold I secured for my team with my suicide split pushing was worth several times what the enemy team got from killing an already 0/6 Kayle 7 more times.

Iqqi2 votes

I have to assume that if your team is that far behind, unless you are drawing all 5 players away, it wont matter. The other(s) are still clearing your jungle and pushing in. The only farm your team is getting is what they already were. I would assume the enemy would be right outside your base just living on your side of the river and anyone who ventures out is about to get a very nice surprise.

Also, as someone else posted, you just have to know when to recall. Dont see Fizz or panth on your mini-map? You should already be recalling.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

What part of not applying pressure isn't worth not dying did you not understand? I'm already 0/6. They get almost no gold anymore for killing me and I get tons of gold by continuing to push. Hell, I got 1845 gold for my team by killing those 2 towers and only gave around 400 gold to the enemy for the 7 times they killed me while I was doing it. I wouldn't have gotten those towers if I had simply backed as soon as either of them were out of vision. Not to mention all the gold I got from minions by pushing and all the time I bought for my team to farm because the enemy team was too busy chasing me around top lane. Overall, those 7 deaths were an enormous net gain for our team and I'm not going to refrain from plays like that because my team, like many people here, don't really understand what's happening.

Iqqi2 votes

{quoted}

What part of not applying pressure isn't worth not dying did you not understand? I'm already 0/6. They get almost no gold anymore for killing me and I get tons of gold by continuing to push. Hell, I got 1845 gold for my team by killing those 2 towers and only gave around 400 gold to the enemy for the 7 times they killed me while I was doing it. I wouldn't have gotten those towers if I had simply backed as soon as either of them were out of vision. Not to mention all the gold I got from minions by pushing and all the time I bought for my team to farm because the enemy team was too busy chasing me around top lane. Overall, those 7 deaths were an enormous net gain for our team and I'm not going to refrain from plays like that because my team, like many people here, don't really understand what's happening.

The content of your reply means you will never understand.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

I found a way to get a gold investment of over 4:1 in a game where we were getting destroyed. Please tell me how that's wrong. I'm sure a Bronze 1 player who's still Silver quality at best in his 5th season of ranked has so much to teach this Diamond player. So let's hear it.

Kapppaccino3 votes

yoh scrublord. if the enemy was way ahead, u just farm under turret and turtle. kayle has insane wave clear so its hard for the enemy to siege. you wouldve been more useful staying with the team. only slippery splitpushers like zed or shaco should go split when behind.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Farming under turret and turtling doesn't work when the enemy is strong enough to just dive and 1 shot you from 100% HP. Like I said, Panth and Fizz were already so fed that they could literally do anything they want, I had already been 100-0 tower dove by Pantheon a couple times at that point. So I took drastic action: If I'm going to die, I'm going to die while pressuring the map, getting farm, and keeping the enemy away from my team. And it worked to a degree. A game that easily would have ended sub 20 minutes managed to be stalled out to 23 minutes and both my carries managed to get a fair bit of uncontested farm while the enemy chased me around top lane. I even got our only 2 towers of the game. And what did I give up for it? Around 400 gold. Turns out feeding 7 kills doesn't mean much of anything when you were 0/6 already to start.

Shahamut1 votes

You have to do both. Even if you arent worth anything, its still something if they get you. Get some good wards out and when they go missing, try to recall so that they waste all of their time for nothing. If you have TP, teleport to where you team is and fight a disadvantage with them. Your strategy is correct, but partially flawed. Thats all we are pointing out here. You were doing MOSTLY the right thing. Just add a little bit more to it.

Ruin Lance2 votes

usually the people who suicide split push win games for me. i can literally specifically recall most of the events in 3 games that a suicide split pusher has single-handedly carried a game for me.

Utility Veigar2 votes

You just got outplayed. Simple.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

I mean.... you're 0/13/0. They're ahead. You're not supposed to leave and give them more experience and pressure. You're supposed to group and be the ones that catch out the people who roam with no vision. It's fine to have a lot of deaths and no kills, sometimes stuff just happens. But how do you have no assists? And if the Fizz and Pantheon are so fed so all it takes is the Ezreal to stop and kill you while the other four still roflstomp your team. If you want to splitpush i suggest buying a Banner of Command or a Zz'rot Portal

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Did you even read the OP? I never grouped, not until the very end when they were sieging our Nexus. Spoiler alert: we didn't kill any of them there either. That's why I have no assists. There's no reason for me to group when I'm so weak. It's not like I can just group and get carried by my team because they were also doing terribly. Remember, the score was 2-17 at 12 minutes; clearly drastic action was in order. And I figured, since I'm already 0/6 from being camped so hard, it might as well be me.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

I know you never grouped. Did you even read my post? I said you should have. You were Kayle, your ult alone could change the tides of a teamfight. You're right that at 0/6 action needs to be taken-- hell, usually around 0/3 I change my style. If I'm behind, for example, I'll roam bot or top and help them get ahead or even pick up a kill or two. After laning phase I'll stick to my allies like glue and get assists to buy items with. I can't do much alone so I don't go anywhere alone. After awhile of this I eventually get enough gold to get back into the game.

There are more beneficial ways of staying relevant rather than feeding the enemy a shitload of experience. For example, you didn't even upgrade your trinket. You could either get a red one and ensure your jungler/objectives are safe from enemy vision or get a blue one like the Vayne did and light the map up. That helps infinitely more. You could, like I said in my other post, get a Zz'rot and a Banner and splitpush that way. The enemy team doesn't get fed off those.

This is obviously just a bad game that probably tilted you and you made bad decisions. It happens, it's fine. I don't really blame your team for reporting you for feeding because I don't see how they could tell the difference between horrible decision making and intentional feeding. Luckily, this report has absolutely no effect on you unless you do this often.

What'd you expect people to reply with by posting it on the boards though?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZUr41Jy4,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-02-20T14:55:02.319+0000)

This is obviously just a bad game that probably tilted you and you made bad decisions. It happens, it's fine. I don't really blame your team for reporting you for feeding because I don't see how they could tell the difference between horrible decision making and intentional feeding. Luckily, this report has absolutely no effect on you unless you do this often.

What'd you expect people to reply with by posting it on the boards though?

Considering how bad the average players game knowledge is, I don't know. Even many Diamond players wouldn't have understood what was happening here, let alone anyone below that level. I've already explained it; I secured over 2k gold for my team by killing those 2 towers and getting all that CS while giving up only 400 gold because I was already 0/6 when I implemented my strategy. Not to mention all the time and space I bought for my team by forcing the enemy to chase me around instead of pressuring my teammates. Being unwilling to die to get those things means I don't get them; it's really that simple. Get a Banner or ZZ'rot to split? Good idea, let me get both of those items at 12 minutes on a carry champion. Just ward and back off when the enemy team goes mia? The enemy is always fucking mia because they're dominating the game. My choice was either to just not farm and slowly wait for a near guaranteed loss or take seemingly drastic action to try and win the game. Action, which I mentioned in the OP, has won me games like this in the past.

And no, you don't need a repeated history of reports to get banned; you need literally 1 game to trigger Riot's new intentional feeding system because that's how it works. I've never been banned; I've never been rank restricted; I've never even been chat restricted. None of that matters because this 1 game just so happened to trigger Riot's new system for an immediate 14 day ban. I understand why the system is in place; the vast majority of people with scores like this were indeed intentional feeding. The vast majority of players aren't willing to trash their scores this hard to try and win (assuming they're trying to win) because they have too much pride to look this bad even for the greater good of the team. I am not one of those people; I learned a long time ago that good scores merely correlate with good play rather than being a cause and effect relationship. I've won plenty of games with terrible looking scores because I played the pressure game and not the kills game.

Awkward Couch1 votes

I wonder if you would have gotten reported for going suicide split push Singed. I mean that was the strat back in the day.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Still a strat, Singed just isn't used that much.

Awkward Couch1 votes

Which is sad, I like Singed.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

You would have. Druiddroid, the guy who invented for lvl 1 proxy Singed strategy, actually had his main account banned for intentional feeding back in the day even when he was winning over 65% of his games.

Awkward Couch1 votes

That exactly who I was thinking of, I just couldn't remember his name!

Drehirth1 votes

OP is right... http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2099909247/48126625?tab=overview

our yasuo was 0/7/0 21 mins into the game and our whole team was losing. Difference in this game i'm betting is that most of us supported yasuo(or didn't say anything) to just splitpush while we wave cleared mid. Eventually we won an extremely bloody victory with everybody's scores looking like shit lol. And guess what? it was that splitpush yasuo who can take a majority of the credit for the win while me thresh and anivia would waveclear/stall out the game. Luckily we only had one person bitching, but they were actually the ones to contribute the least :O

I even uploaded whole game from my perspective just because I wanted to show a friend(who's one of those gg ff 20 people, and thinks that i'm a "never surrender" person just because I can spot a game where the enemy doesn't know how to close out a game)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzT_Yr992a8

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Yep, looks about right. Difference is, yours actually worked so it's ok. Mine didn't work and, of course, my team needs someone to blame; so out come the reports.

GamblerOfLives1 votes

http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1350010664/204624139?tab=overview

depends dude

the score was 6-15 and behind 4 k gold:)..you know why we won? they send 4 to kill illaoi and we took drake and 2 towers and killed the enemy adc, good trade:)..and i've secured baron when i managed to 1 vs 3 after my team pretty much died. i was kha'zix vs mastery(sated and fed) gragas and janna.. Master y Qs me, i jump away to escape but he follows me, and i knew i had to fight.. i Q boom, master y died, gragas comes in with shield from janna. i know i can;t kill gragas with jana shield, so, i jump to janna-boom bitch you died, after that i 1 vs 1 gragas. and i knew that he doesn;t have burst, and i have more sustain than him..boom mfker, you are gone. 3 deaths solo;)..played really well. and after that we secured baron and the victory;)

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