Did Riot hire new forum mods? One of them is being overly strict compared to usual.

WoonStruck·Feb 4, 2017·3 votes·785 views

You're also bronze 5 0 LP after 150+ games.

What you say about balance can't really be considered relevant. No offense. I really hate to bring up rank in this case...

However, Its just that you very, very likely have not fought someone that's actually using Cait correctly.

That is exactly what I posted. I am not rank shaming. I'm not calling him a terrible player.

I am saying that he does not play with other players that are experienced enough to properly utilize Cait, so his adamant claim of her not being an issue because he doesn't have issues with her holds very little merit.

I would like input from the Rioter who addressed my post, please.

26 Comments

ModMod CuratorFeb 4, 201711 votes

That's not "exactly" what you posted. You also rank-shamed them which we remove when we see in Gameplay.

If you want to attack someone's argument, that's fine. If you start attacking the person, you're opening yourself up to getting your post removed depending on what you say.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20172 votes

Copy/paste messed up. I corrected.

I did not rank shame. I did not attack him. It was relevant information.

Look up the definition of 'attack' please. I stated a fact, and that fact is that, at his current rank, he likely has not faced the issues that people are complaining about with Cait.

ModMod CuratorFeb 4, 201710 votes

{quoted}

Copy/paste messed up. I corrected.

I did not rank shame. I did not attack him. It was relevant information.

Look up the definition of 'attack' please. I stated a fact, and that fact is that, at his current rank, he likely has not faced the issues that people are complaining about with Cait.

You asked why your post was removed; I told you.

This is not new.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

Considering I didn't attack him, yes it is.

Care to inform me why its considered attacking when its relevant information concerning the scenario?

People call out rank all the time in far more hostile manners without getting their posts removed. In many of the cases experience isn't relevant either, unlike this case.

ModMod CuratorFeb 4, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Considering I didn't attack him, yes it is.

Care to inform me why its considered attacking when its relevant information concerning the scenario?

People call out rank all the time in far more hostile manners without getting their posts removed. In many of the cases experience isn't relevant either, unlike this case.

If you see other people rank-shaming like you did, report the post and we'll look at it and remove it if necessary. Just because someone posted and we missed it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

Using someone's rank as a way to invalidate their argument is considered rank-shaming. That's exactly what you tried to do there. There are multiple reasons why someone's account rank doesn't matter, so there's no reason to bring it up. If you can't make a valid argument without attacking a player, don't do it.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

Tell me how exactly it was shaming, though.

Do you deny that at his current level of play he likely has not faced the issues people are finding with Cait?

I was not degrading him. It is a fact that low MMR, especially as low as his, does not deal with the same balance issues as higher MMR.

Riot even states this themselves at times.

It is not an insult to be at a low rank. It simply means you have areas you need to improve on in the game; that you, factually, do not have a great grasp on the game currently.

ModMod CuratorFeb 4, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Tell me how exactly it was shaming, though.

Do you deny that at his current level of play he likely has not faced the issues people are finding with Cait?

I was not degrading him. It is a fact that low MMR, especially as low as his, does not deal with the same balance issues as higher MMR.

Riot even states this themselves at times.

It is not an insult to be at a low rank. It simply means you have areas you need to improve on in the game; that you, factually, do not have a great grasp on the game currently.

I just did.

Using someone's rank as a way to invalidate their argument is considered rank-shaming. That's exactly what you tried to do there. There are multiple reasons why someone's account rank doesn't matter, so there's no reason to bring it up. If you can't make a valid argument without attacking a player, don't do it.

To be clear, I'm here to answer your question. I have. I get that you don't agree, but that doesn't change that your post was removed.

If you'd like to appeal the removal, you can do so by submitting a ticket to Player Support.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

Thank you for taking your time out of your day, either way.

DryditchFeb 4, 20172 votes

Quick note:

It's entirely possible (and very likely) that players down here in low bronze have gone up against players using champions to the best of their abilities. While it's exceedingly rare that a player who's that good stays in Bronze long enough to affect many games, it is more common than you think.

Sometimes even we bronzies have good games. More often than not, the difference between Bronze, Silver, and Gold is measured purely in terms of game knowledge and map awareness. Mechanics stay relatively consistent throughout.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

He was exceptionally low; ~750 est. MMR on op.gg.

Approaching 'inverse challenger' on the bell-curve distribution.

Bronze players can have good games, yes. Usually, the largest factor is consistency that boils down to game knowledge.

However, this player was so exceptionally low that rank was somewhat relevant. It shows an extreme disconnect from the basic concepts of the game.

DryditchFeb 4, 20172 votes

In that case, i would have called out the MMR as opposed to the rank, and even then, more important would be winrate in past 20 games, handily provided to you by op.gg as well.

Additionally, it's worth noting that op.gg doesn't take into account MMR from normal games, and that a bronze player who does not play ranked often might have normals MMR good enough to be playing with gold and up, as many of my friends do.

Regardless, I understand your point. There are a lot more factors to consider than just rank or MMR, but without actually criticizing the player's argument and correcting some of their fallacies, you aren't adding anything to the discussion, and are just silencing a player.

Lord knows I'm never getting past Silver on this account without spending hours upon hours grinding out games, but I understand game design at least on a basic level, and feel qualified to talk about it. My rank, Bronze 4 solo, Bronze 3 flex (both of which have been queued almost entirely solo), can and has been used to convince people not to take me seriously, even when I have a complete grasp of the situation being discussed.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

Winrate in the past 20 games is irrelevant, ~~and IS provided by OP.gg~~(misread). He has a 32% winrate in his past 20.

Does someone having a 32% winrate in their past 20 games somehow make them less credible than being over 150 MMR lower than the B5 0LP average after 150+ games?

I realize it was effectively silencing, but everyone was disagreeing with him and he wasn't putting forth credible arguments in the first place. It was mostly "I said it so it must be true" coming from him, effectively.

He wasn't looking to discuss in the first place.

If you made a serious argument, I would take your argument seriously though.

The way this person was acting while clearly having a much, much lesser grasp on the game than you (difference between silver and plat, probably more due to exponential distribution) was the reason I was discrediting him via experience. He was not accepting factual statements.

Also, you'd be surprised how easy it is to improve. Maybe you're just looking at the wrong areas?

If you haven't watched "Leaguecraft 101", I highly suggest it. At the very least, it will help you win lane.

DryditchFeb 4, 20171 votes

Winrate in the last 20 games shows a trend for a player. In many cases, players get stuck in streaks, especially in low elo, where a little tilt goes a long way.

My last 20 games don't look great on the surface, so I wouldn't take advice from me right now, though looking at the actual games it becomes obvious that in the games I won, I did quite well, and I didn't perform horribly in most of the ones I lost (though that Trundle game was a shitshow).

Some people tank their MMR quite hard at one point or another. I remember, right around the start of Season 4, I trashed my MMR because I didn't know the real difference between ranked and norms. For a long while, my MMR sat somewhere in the low 600s until I improved and worked it back up over the course of several season resets. During the time I was restoring my MMR, I learned quite a bit about the game, and definitely made more than a few cogent arguments on the boards.

If the guy was already being shouted down by everyone else, there wasn't much reason to add your comment unless he was talking specifically to you in some comment chain, at which point, I would argue your comments were justified.

I'm at exactly a 50% winrate now in solo, and have tended to win most of my games in the past month or so. It's not hard to improve, but I usually have time for just one or two games every few days, so it takes time to climb, given variability in teammates and my own performance.

I'll definitely look into leaguecraft at some point though. Always looking to improve.

Anyway, I just like to stop in when I see comments about low rank players and game knowledge, because they don't usually come from open-minded individuals, and it's good to remind people that not every bronzie's a dumbass.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20172 votes

I used to not play much ranked, but I still could climb at a decent pace after just settling for gold for a few seasons.

Played 35 games last season and hit plat 5. Shooting for diamond this season after vlad buffs come in.

Amount of games isn't a huge deal; its the information you pull away from them. After you take some of the leaguecraft points into consideration and adapting them into your play, I'm sure you'll find yourself winning a LOT more games. Be sure to review every now and then.

If you don't, its most likely your map plays; what you're doing to actually head towards finishing the game, as opposed to just winning fights. Keep that in mind. Be objective oriented. Not KDA oriented.

If you still have a hard time climbing after all of that, pick a champion that can solo carry easier until you get to an MMR where you can rely on your team a bit more.

Apologize for not responding to the rest; you make fair enough points to close out the discussion there.

DryditchFeb 4, 20172 votes

Thanks for all the advice, man.

I already focus objectives way harder than I focus kills. More often than not, games I win are games where I'm either in a position to take objectives or where players who are in that position listen to my shot calling.

My biggest weakness right now is my mechanical play and relatively shallow champ pool.

I'm excellent at two champions per role I play, and then there's a very sharp decline in my ability to play at a decent level after those two, which leads to shit positioning because I rarely know my ranges/damages exactly beyond the champs I play often.

Anyway, will check out leaguecraft and try to expand champ pools some more. Thanks again.

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

Shallow champ pool is not a factor.

I almost exclusively play Vlad. A shallow champ pool is often better because it gives you a single reliable point among all of your games so you can focus on everything else instead. Also helps with match-up knowledge and power-spike awareness.

Stick to those two or so champs per role. If you can, narrow it down to primarily one role, with an off-role as your secondary.

Learn the rest of the game in great detail first, THEN expand your repertoire if you want to. Its by no means necessary. The fact that I hit plat 5 so easily and would have skipped to plat 3 if I started climbing earlier on arguably one of the weakest champs in the game at the time is a testament to that.

DryditchFeb 4, 20172 votes

Good point. I already main mid, secondary supp but have a better winrate from support because usually I can stop my dumbass... er... ADC from getting slaughtered early on and snowball the game that way.

If I stick to my two champs per role I tend to win, and most of my losses recently are from trying to expand champ pool.

Thanks again for the advice.

AeroWaffleFeb 4, 20177 votes

You're using the person's rank as the sole basis to discredit their argument.

You said it with nice words, but you might as well have said, "Your rank is X, your opinions about balance is worthless".

WoonStruckFeb 4, 20171 votes

His entire argument was his experience though.

In what way can you discredit anecdotal evidence without discrediting said anecdotal evidence?

Are you saying low ranked players should have a barrier from counter-arguments when they themselves claim poor evidence?

AeroWaffleFeb 4, 20175 votes

If they are saying that X champ is fine.

You discredit them by saying, "X champ is not fine because Z". Not by saying, "Your opinion is worthless because your rank is X".

EnselusFeb 6, 20173 votes

Am I really seeing "rank-shaming" in the comments? Lmfao is this a fuckin safe space now

ktorywygrywaFeb 6, 20172 votes

I wanted to see what comment got removed and dude where do you go off on a kid with no proof of where they came from.

You keep talking plat but ur gold 2 and u have no event ranked games therefore you look like an eBay account and going through the history on that account I don't see why you would rank shame someone when all you have done was play arams

WoonStruckFeb 6, 20171 votes

The box says exactly what I said. I'll even take a screenshot of the notification if you don't believe me.

Also I didn't 'go off on a kid'. Tell me where you see that.

What do you mean 'no proof of where they come from'?

Op.gg shows it all.

If you look at op.gg, you can look at tier graph, and it shows plat at a period, then ranked reset hit.

That was only 35 games that season, starting from gold 3, skipping tiers every promo. Would have skipped to plat 3 if I didn't run out of time.

You not having the data doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's an issue on you, not me. Its all there for me.

Besides, it wasn't rank shaming. It was showing that his relative MMR, even to bronze 5 0 LP was SIGNFICANTLY lower than average.

ktorywygrywaFeb 6, 20172 votes

still your mmr isn't all that great compared to masters, so why shame someone for not turning league into their life.