Smurfs-Main tracking for permabannable offences.

Señor Karthus··42 votes·6,192 views

Is this a thing? and if it is not, why isn't it a thing? Riot created a great and incredibly complex MMR Boost tracker but they cannot link smurfs to main accounts? Because I think that if someone uses their smurf accounts to harass people and use hate speech on chat, or feed or troll, their main accounts should suffer the same fate as their smurfs. I am tired of seeing trolls saying "I don't care if they ban me this is a smurf." It is really frustrating and leaves the harassed players with a feeling that the bad people of this community will always get away with it.

68 Comments

WhiteSpheres6 votes

In a world where Riot is going to spend hours upon hours looking through accounts, finding similar champion play, rune pages, etc., yes that would be a good system. However, Riot didnt even release an actual Harrowing this year, because of "Worlds". You really think they're going to waste their time searching through accounts?

nerak234 votes

Riot could just start will people who brag about doing such things on the boards :) lol I love to see a Red pop in on a thread and say ' oh BTW since you told everyone what you do we checked it and this account is now banned'

WhiteSpheres3 votes

{quoted}

Riot could just start will people who brag about doing such things on the boards :) lol I love to see a Red pop in on a thread and say ' oh BTW since you told everyone what you do we checked it and this account is now banned'

Riot does not ban players for having more than one account. Having multiple accounts is completely allowed.

Antsy Armadillo6 votes

{quoted}

Riot does not ban players for having more than one account. Having multiple accounts is completely allowed.

You are completely missing thing point. You must be one of them. I personally despise smurfs and think that they should be banned without a second thought. I don't care if you are on my team or not. I will still report you for cheating, because as I have said before it doesn't just affect you, or your team. It's a trickle effect and is why we end up in games where someone feeds horrifically because they were "lucky" and had smurfs the last few games. Which screws you the team-mate who had to try to get to whatever ELO/LP you are at and now suffer an unstoppable loss. Now you say it's just one game, but they add up pretty quickly.

T RexHasTinyArms4 votes

It isn't cheating though. Smurfing originally became a thing because high elo players had such long wait times it was obscene. Diamond players would make a second account and play in plat games to avoid an hour long wait. Personally I don't think that someone who is gold playing in bronze or silver is smurfing they are just playing a second account for whatever reason, and I'd say depending on the reason this could be justified as being bannable.

Personally I have a second account from leveling up w/ a friend who joined the game bc when he duo'd w/ my level 30 he hated the game bc he got stomped every game. I played off roles and stuff I was really bad at, or built super troll stuff like AD Annie the whole time though bc I didn't want to make the games really unbalanced and wanted my friend to get a chance to practice rather than me carrying him and ruining a game. Personally I think if you're at an elo below the one you should be then you're a guest of that rank, no one should hear about you smurfing and you should be polite (plus you should either be focused on climbing and getting out of the elo fast if you're doing that for some reason, or you should be playing off roles you can't play in your own rank.)

Whether people behave in a manner that is polite or not isn't really my call though, and it's not cheating either way. Until riot changes their policy (I think it used to be the other way actually until they came out and condoned it) then second accounts or smurfing isn't cheating and you're probably lowering the value of your reports if you report them for cheating. I'd suggest reporting the people who flame or are jerks for their attitude/verbal abuse, and anyone who is smurfing w/ a friend in ranked I'd report for elo boosting both them and the person not smurfing but duo w/ them. Just my 2 cents though to try and keep your reports being given value as accurate by riot's system.

Señor Karthus5 votes

I think smurfing itself is a problem that Riot should address, that affects everyone but especially the most vulnerable: new players that get discouraged of keeping playing because they were destroyed by an experienced player. But that is not what we are talking about here. Here I am saying that when someone is banned and permabanned, Riot should track if it is a smurf account and apply the same punishment to all the accounts linked.

T RexHasTinyArms3 votes

Yeah, I wasn't responding to the original post. That's why I posted to your reply here and not the original post. You mentioned reporting them for cheating and I just wanted to let you know that if you report someone for cheating bc they are a smurf, that eventually the riot system that automatically filters for people reporting falsely frequently and gives their reports lower value will identify your reports as low value bc they are frequently false. Smurfing isn't cheating, and if you're reporting their behavior that is verbal abuse or something that is again not cheating. Don't report it for cheating if you want riot to think your reports are accurate and probably worth checking more often than not.

Additionally, the kind of smurfs I would consider smurfs (D1, Masters, Challenger players avoiding 20-30 min que times; although I'm not sure D1 is that bad anymore), and not just bad silver/gold players who wanted to pub stomp new players bc they were to weak to try and improve at the game and beat better players, don't end up in games w/ new players past their first like 10 or so. The few challenger/masters/D1 players I've seen level a new account for an unranked to diamond youtube series or stream or something end up w/ diamond+ level wait times while they're at like level 15 or some damn thing bc there just aren't enough good players in low levels to have ques w/ high elo players. They usually get matched w/ other smurfs, or as a random person vs 5 man premades bc the system has to find similar normal mmr to place them in a game and they win too much to be placed w/ your average level 30 player let alone your average new player. People destroying low elo games are usually an issue bc whether it is at level 30 or level 5 they behave like assholes.

As a side note, I think the concept in the original post would be cool but in the current system would be a pain to enforce. One option I think might work is if you gave an incentive to voluntarily link your accounts if leveling a new account, or for current smurfs if the reward wasn't tied to leveling up (say the second starts at level 5 or 10, or gets IP or XP boost for being linked, hell even a "linked account" summoner icon would possibly be enough to get people to do it). Then people have their accounts linked so if one is punished the other is punished and there isn't any chance of appealing w/ something like "my brother was playing at my house" or "it's an apartment and we all pay for internet, one of my roommates or their friends play that account." Simplifies the whole process, but I think to get support people like you who really abhor the idea of people owning multiple accounts, would have to be willing to back it even though it would mean giving a benefit to people who do something you hate.

Taarki4 votes

Smurfing in itself should not be bannable. Smurfing and putting that you are a begginger at the game to obtain a lower starting MMR and harassing new players should be bannable. But if you put that you are intermediate or an expert at the game and obtain a higher starting MMR then there should be no problem.

JARmates1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UqLcAv3E,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T20:34:02.889+0000)

I think smurfing itself is a problem that Riot should address, that affects everyone but especially the most vulnerable: new players that get discouraged of keeping playing because they were destroyed by an experienced player. But that is not what we are talking about here. Here I am saying that when someone is banned and permabanned, Riot should track if it is a smurf account and apply the same punishment to all the accounts linked.

No I downvoted your thread to oblivion. New players coming in and complaining about toxicity is what wrong with the league community. There is already enough LOL players as it is. Last thing I want is more people who get their feeling hurt.

Señor Karthus2 votes

You: "I downvoted your thread to oblivion" Thread: @is at +34 upvotes@ Me: @pats his head@

WhiteSpheres3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cranky Coyote,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UqLcAv3E,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T19:09:16.175+0000)

You are completely missing thing point. You must be one of them. I personally despise smurfs and think that they should be banned without a second thought. I don't care if you are on my team or not. I will still report you for cheating, because as I have said before it doesn't just affect you, or your team. It's a trickle effect and is why we end up in games where someone feeds horrifically because they were "lucky" and had smurfs the last few games. Which screws you the team-mate who had to try to get to whatever ELO/LP you are at and now suffer an unstoppable loss. Now you say it's just one game, but they add up pretty quickly.


"You must be one of them."

False accusations, just because I have an opinion doesn't make me an enemy.

I will still report you for cheating

Smurfing isn't cheating, nor does it break any rules.


The only reason I say this solution has no project, is because I've tried to have this solution surface before. The information I'm telling is something that I was responding with.

T RexHasTinyArms7 votes

But behavior is completely bannable. Using a smurf to avoid punishment on a main account could easily be seen as damaging the community and riot could justify making this a bannable offense. You can have as many accounts as you want, but if you're banned for behavior on one, the others receive either the same ban, or one step down or something.

Auroramancer1 votes

Player Behavior Rioters have said that those smurf accounts will receive bans, and that players who are using smurf accounts to be toxic, will probably continue to lose smurf accounts.

I don't know about you, but if someone has a smurf account, chances are, their main account is level 30. Most of the time, those toxic players aren't willing to put in the time to grind through another account, buying more champions and runes just to try to pubstomp.

It's a long grind, and I can't imagine a toxic player having such dogged determination to lose a smurf account, then start over again and again. Yes, theoretically they can do that, but it's unlikely.

WhiteSpheres3 votes

They have no possible way of tracking "smurf" accounts to their "main" accounts. There is literally no possible way to track this.

EvilDustMan4 votes

{quoted}

They have no possible way of tracking "smurf" accounts to their "main" accounts. There is literally no possible way to track this.

IP addresses.

WhiteSpheres8 votes

{quoted}

IP addresses.

Have you ever heard of, something called college? Not only that but people who have siblings or family members that play League of Legends in the house with them? They're not going to ban an entire IP address. They have already stated in the past they've tried this once and it went horribly wrong.

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever heard of, something called college? Not only that but people who have siblings or family members that play League of Legends in the house with them? They're not going to ban an entire IP address. They have already stated in the past they've tried this once and it went horribly wrong.

Yes, I know, but you say there's absolutely no way to track smurfs. Similiar IP addresses and similar ranks/champions/rune pages/labels/friend lists IS a way for them to track them. It's not perfect, but it is a way.

o Maui o2 votes

Different players often play on the same IP address.

A single player often plays on many different IP addresses, even from the same computer.

Firu1 votes

If it's not reliable then it's not valid. Using IP addresses and similar ranks/champions/rune pages/labels/etc. is not reliable.

TrulyBland1 votes

{quoted}

If it's not reliable then it's not valid. Using IP addresses and similar ranks/champions/rune pages/labels/etc. is not reliable.

One of them is reliable enough to justify the use of more methods. But I find it very easy to believe that once you combine a whole lot of those methods you end up having a reliable system. Nobody would consider a DNA test reliable that only tests one single base pair. But as you crank up the amount of variables you're looking at, the chance for unintended matches drops to almost zero pretty fast.

That said I doubt they'll do it for every permaban.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

There would be so many ways around this that you'd be as likely to get false positives as you would good bans. Whether it is siblings/roommates playing the game at the same place, or a public space, or just someone visiting (I've played at my cousin's before when I was still awake bc of time change and not being tired but everyone else crashed out), there are a ton of legitimate reasons to have multiple accounts on the same IP.

LegendaryLemur2 votes

{quoted}

IP addresses.

Proxy servers.

Linthe1 votes

{quoted}

IP addresses.

No. Wont work. Dynamic IP. Playing at a friend's house etc. Terrible idea.

s LessThanThree1 votes

{quoted}

IP addresses.

IPs also refresh many times every day

nerak232 votes

Riot does not ban players for having more than one account. Having multiple accounts is completely allowed.

I'm not saying they care about it or that there is anything wrong with it :) I have another account I never use to comment on here, that one is for serious game play and this one is for practice and trying new things out.

My point was only that when people make smurfs Only to mess with people and they brag about it on here, then I think it's time someone checks these accounts to see if in fact they are only (for lack of a better word) trolling.

I see people talk about how many accounts they have that are being punished right now or outright permma-banned and now they only play to piss people off, this is what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that ;)

WhiteSpheres3 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying they care about it or that there is anything wrong with it :) I have another account I never use to comment on here, that one is for serious game play and this one is for practice and trying new things out.

My point was only that when people make smurfs Only to mess with people and they brag about it on here, then I think it's time someone checks these accounts to see if in fact they are only (for lack of a better word) trolling.

I see people talk about how many accounts they have that are being punished right now or outright permma-banned and now they only play to piss people off, this is what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that ;)

I completely agree with you, if people are claiming to be trolling on their account (and its their account they are on, on the forums), then yes, Riot should do something about that. If someone is bragging about how toxic they are on an account then I also think something should be done.

Only Play Darius2 votes

They can link accounts. I remember reading a Red reply to someone who was whining about a boosting suspension, they told him that they are tracking 2 other accounts and one of which has a history of suspensions. They likely don't want to act on it because it's rather brash.

Not all smurfs are bad, the ones who keep an account in Bronze to go 30/2 in games and intentionally throw their promos are scum and ruin it for everyone, and are also more prevalent in low-elo. But there are also valid reasons for smurfing that don't ruin the game for others.

nerak232 votes

Lots of interesting things being discussed on this thread ! I like it and some of your great ideals everyone :)

Thanks OP for the thread !

Señor Karthus2 votes

You are welcome. Thanks for the nice comment x3 [slayer-jinx-wink]

maxtherag2 votes

I support this endeavor.

Palmeiras SerieB2 votes

Coz Tryndamere does not give a fuck and only wants money

Anidan2 votes

I'm far more concerned about Tencent's greed than Tryndamere's. Before Tencent, we have to remember that they were a really, really goddamn customer-oriented company.

Jingerbeardman2 votes

it is likely possible to track mains in similar ways to the booster tracker. They will never admit to any of that though. The reason they can not is the moment they reveal even the smallest variable that is used for tracking, the system can become compromised and overcome.

What you should be doing instead of trying to put Riot on the spot is promote others to use the Report system. The single best way to get an account flagged for inspection is through reports. Once an account has been flagged it can be dealt with but if everyone gets on the hate riot train they will be less likely to use the report system since their confidence in Riot hearing those reports is diminished.

Weeding out the bad seeds in the community is a group effort. Unless we all work together using the tools we have available to us nothing will happen.

YambrinZ2 votes

Its not as easy as you make it seem. How many friends play from the same ip? Gaming houses, colleges, etc. So you suggest Riot bans every account from the University of Alabama because one person was toxic? Honestly, learn to use the mute feature.

Señor Karthus3 votes

I don't want to be rude, but you don't make it easy. You should learn to use your brain, mate. Riot doesn't need to ban a whole IP, but can track an IP as part of the system that detects smurfs. They can also know very easily if different accounts are using the same computer. And they can even track little personal behavior like runes pages used/created, ward placing, champions used, performance with them, and a long etc that they use now with their MMR Boost tracking system (even if they won't admit it because they don't want to let people know how the system works), and link accounts in case of a punishment is applied to one of them.

ps: the people who say "don't report, use the mute button" are usually the toxic people themselves.

JARmates1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UqLcAv3E,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2015-11-09T19:07:49.911+0000)

I don't want to be rude, but you don't make it easy. You should learn to use your brain, mate. Riot doesn't need to ban a whole IP, but can track an IP as part of the system that detects smurfs. They can also know very easily if different accounts are using the same computer. And they can even track little personal behavior like runes pages used/created, ward placing, champions used, performance with them, and a long etc that they use now with their MMR Boost tracking system (even if they won't admit it because they don't want to let people know how the system works), and link accounts in case of a punishment is applied to one of them.

ps: the people who say "don't report, use the mute button" are usually the toxic people themselves.

Nope, I'm not toxic and I agree with them. I get honor almost every game. Telling other to use their brain but you don't use your? How is that even fair?

It not going to happen and it doesn't matter how much you want it to.

Señor Karthus1 votes

You just said that new players that complain about toxicity are "not welcome in this game" And I quote literally:

{quoted}

New players coming in and complaining about toxicity is what wrong with the league community. There is already enough LOL players as it is. Last thing I want is more people who get their feeling hurt.

What a sad attempt of a troll. You are the toxic person in here who needs to get some tea and some life.

crapnamesleft2 votes

So this is my smurf account (main is nothing special just low silver) and I just thought that id share what just happened in a normal game of under lv 30's. As usual I check the teams stats b4 a match and notice we dont have a lv 30 account on our side while the other team has 2 golds and a silver, my immediate thought is ok probably gonna lose this one but lets just do our best. At 20 mins the score is about 12-30 something and we are thoroughly getting smashed and the team doesnt want to ff so thats cool ill just keep playing with them. Then at around 25-30 mins the 2 golds on the other team and their smurf buddy they queued with start talking so much crap and they entirely stop going for objs and just go for kills and literally made the game a living hell for the people on my team that either didnt know about the gold players and smurf or just couldnt get the last 1-2 people to click yes. Is this the behavior people should be acting with when they play on smurfs? They were reported by our team but if it actually does anything I dont know and for the guy on his smurf he got away completely free since there is no way to link it to his main account. Just thought id share how toxic things get when higher elo players smurf and go against teams that are obviously no match for them. Fyi not just 1 game but several over the last few days on this account.

Señor Karthus1 votes

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have experienced this as well and it is unacceptable.

Tearin True1 votes

They could track it through the client. The client could record what accounts log into it and report back to RIOT.

Sammystorm1 votes

I don't want riot to have that kind of access. Do you?

Señor Karthus2 votes

Then don't play. It comes with the terms whenever you log in to the game.

JARmates1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UqLcAv3E,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T19:11:16.863+0000)

Then don't play. It comes with the terms whenever you log in to the game.

Now your telling people not to play, that a re-portable offense. I think your the one who actually toxic not the other way around base on how your telling people what they can do and cannot do.

Señor Karthus1 votes

Reportable offense? @laughs@ @pats his head@

LegendaryLemur1 votes

That might work, but i think it would be pretty easy to workaround. Just have a fresh install sitting on a ram disk and have your main install on a ram disk too. Then delete all the files and flash the new ones every time you want to log into a new account.

Maybe there's something i'm missing but if you delete all the files and 'reinstall' between each log-in i don't see how the client could keep track of which accounts have logged in.

nerak231 votes

I don't want riot to have that kind of access. Do you?

I give my written permission for Riot to have that kind of access to me right now :) Yep, they can track a lot of things they won't tell you about. The system they is one of the best around, you'd be surprised what they can do and what they could know if they wanted the info.

As long as my info is confidential to them they can track anything I do with League, I have nothing to hide :)

Saint Archer1 votes

it's simple. riot doesn't ban almost anybody because they spend money. if they were to ban them then they wouldn't spend any more money, and money is all that riot cares about. if that wasn't true then they would keep a clean community.

Firu3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MONSTER ZER0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UqLcAv3E,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-11-09T13:26:39.325+0000)

it's simple. riot doesn't ban almost anybody because they spend money. if they were to ban them then they wouldn't spend any more money, and money is all that riot cares about. if that wasn't true then they would keep a clean community.

While your frustration is very real, this statement couldn't be more wrong and is based solely on the frustration. Riot bans people. Temporarily and permanently, Riot bans a lot of people.

nerak231 votes

it's simple. riot doesn't ban almost anybody because they spend money. if they were to ban them then they wouldn't spend any more money, and money is all that riot cares about. if that wasn't true then they would keep a clean community.

Is that why we have so many threads saying how they spent x amount of $ on the game and want one more chance ? Please comments like this is rhetoric.

nerak231 votes

I think that if they wanted to implement a system that would punish multiple accounts (from the same player) together they could...the thing is the process, work, time and $ involved would be substantial.

The other thing is the positive/negatives of this action as Riot is very strict in believing Not to Punish the wrong person, or the wrong way. They believe in reforming players at least trying to. Lyte has a seminar on-line in which he explains his reasoning for this...I wish I had bookmarked it. If anyone remembers it please link, I found it very interesting.

As far as I know they may be working out a system right now, but it would take a lot of time and testing. But whatever way you believe it I personally for this action. Yeah I know, A Lot you You aren't going to like this statement. JMO :)

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