I've had far too many trolls do this, it's really annoying in ranked.
When it's done by accident, I can understand, I've seen people genuinely do it by mistake. And then there are plenty of people who flat out admit that they're doing it just to grief.
Prevent them from banning out picks that have been soft-locked by teammates, problem fixed.
Chermorg7 votesThere are legitimate reasons to ban a teammate's pick intentionally, and this list doesn't even include all of them.
The champion is new or recently majorly updated and the player doesn't want him played in ranked.
The player is afraid the enemy team will pick the champion first.
The player simply does not want to play a game with that champion in it.
The ban mechanic is before the pick mechanic for a reason - it's considered higher priority. There's 100+ champions in the game - you can always play another champion, but if you don't ban a champion there's no guarantee it won't be in the game, and possibly on the enemy team. Hovering should ideally initiate conversation if someone was going to ban your champion, but they are by no means obligated to converse before doing so.
Azazel Aerternum1 votesThere are legitimate reasons to ban a teammate's pick intentionally, and this list doesn't even include all of them.
The champion is new or recently majorly updated and the player doesn't want him played in ranked.
The player is afraid the enemy team will pick the champion first.
The player simply does not want to play a game with that champion in it.
The ban mechanic is before the pick mechanic for a reason - it's considered higher priority. There's 100+ champions in the game - you can always play another champion, but if you don't ban a champion there's no guarantee it won't be in the game, and possibly on the enemy team. Hovering should ideally initiate conversation if someone was going to ban your champion, but they are by no means obligated to converse before doing so.
Those principles encourage toxicity "I don't want to play a game with Yasuo in it, and despite my midlaner being a Yasuo main, I'm going to ban Yasuo b/c I can't be banned for it"
What's next, should I be allowed to steal another's role simply b/c I don't want to see anyone else in it? Or perhaps b/c I don't like their preferred playstyle, I should so be encouraged and enabled to prevent them from playing to their fullest for paltry reasons.
I guess we need to allow voting in item builds now, no, sorry MF, we don't want you building the Korean build, you're going to have to build as we say. It's toxic behavior, no different than griefing.
Chermorg3 votesYou can't just say everything's toxic because you don't like it. Banning is a critical part of League just as one team losing is a critical part of a game. The difference between that and your examples of "should i be allowed" is that your "should I be allowed" aren't actually game mechanics.
If you don't like the game mechanics, then don't play League - sorry to say that's how Riot made draft pick and that's how it is. If you want to have a discussion about changing the game mechanics, the Gameplay boards are probably a better place for that.
Jo0o2 votesIt's a mechanic, but it also is a major method of trolling, which is why these posts pop up in Player Behavior.
Banning in its current state is unique in that it allows people to police their own teammates on how those teammates are allowed to play the game. That seems unhealthy for the community.
Jo0o2 votesI have to believe that the reasons for friendly-fire bans are outweighed considerably by the potential to troll or just to be a dick to your own team for no reason.
Let's say I'm hovering Eve. I played her post-rework a bunch on the PBE, and I'm quite confident that I can carry with her. The only real reason I had for queueing up today was to get an Eve game in. Now, it would be one thing if the enemy team banned me out, or if I was out-picked. But if my own teammate bans me, especially if I'm high in the pick order, that's telling me that without any knowledge of who I am or what kind of player I can be, my teammate is unilaterally imposing a restriction on me. Not only that, but it's a restriction that they COULD have used to ban away an enemy champion.
But that's intentionally a contentious pick. Let's take a real example from me last week: I hovered Yorick, and my teammate banned him. Yorick isn't a heavily contested pick at the moment, and he's one of the lowest ban rates in the game. There's no good reason to ban Yorick for any reason other than to troll me. Could I pick a different top laner? Sure, but I don't WANT to. I learned Yorick, I enjoy playing Yorick, and I picked Yorick as one of my mains because I'm virtually guaranteed to be able to pick him since he's not popular. That's the champ I queued up to play, and since my own teammate randomly denied that from me, I dodged.
Banning your own teammate's pick has a very narrow legitimate application. On the other hand, it's a relatively popular method of trolling. Surely preventing such bans wouldn't significantly damage the use of the banning tool, right?
Chermorg3 votesIt would in higher ELOs especially, but even still it would do so to at least a moderate expense in lower ELOs. Prohibiting the banning of hovers would also enable people to troll their team by last pick hovering a heavily contested champ when the enemy has first pick - all but ensuring the enemy gets it.
Jo0o1 votesSo we'd trade one method of trolling for another, but at least this way people are able to play the champ they want to play more often. Isn't that worth it?
Chermorg4 votesBut the thing is, people can always play another champ. The alternative form of trolling - i.e. letting the enemy get an extremely powerful champion - would result in game changing consequences. Your champ gets banned? You can play another one. But you can't go back and ban a champion you wish you would've after the game starts and you're losing to them.
Jo0o1 votesWhat's the difference between the absolute best flavor-of-the-month champ and a reasonable alternative in that position? A 1% win rate? 1.5%? Relevant in the grand scheme of LP gains over time, sure, but not earth-shattering on a per-game basis.
Assuming a) the enemy team intended to pick the contested champ, b) they had a high enough pick to actually get that champ, and c) them getting that champ would prove to be the difference between victory and defeat, then sure, ban away.
Edit: I respect where you're coming from, but I reject the idea that the value of access to the best possible champ vs. a reasonable alternative has more relevance to League than the fundamental availability of playing the champ you'd want to have fun playing. ESPECIALLY in norms. Why hasn't there at least been some consideration to prevent friendly-fire bans in normal draft?
Chermorg2 votesBut how do you enforce that? If you hard-code that (say, if enemy has it 3rd pick or above you could still ban even if teammate hovers), then you'd enable teams hovering all the champs to figure out what the enemy's top three picks are. That'd be necessary for someone to know your a) if the enemy intended to pick it and b) had a high enough pick.
Jo0o1 votesMy apologies, I wasn't clear.
I didn't mean that as an actual path for Riot to take to adjusting the banning phase, but rather as an illustration for why I see your take on the banning phase as narrow. I'd only call a ban on my teammate's pick justified in that narrow case that I outlined above.
Kei1431 votesPhreak VS Tyler1 episode1:
Phreak hovers Brand support, T1 doesn't want a Brand support and bans him.
Phreak's response "Maybe you could have just communicated with me said you didn't want a Brand support".
Is T1 allowed to do that? Sure. Is it a jerk move? I think so. Would I ever purposely ban my teammate's hover? Nope. Even if that was a Yasuo hover? Nope, I won't ban it, but I smile when I see that the enemy has banned Yasuo.
Friendly Ram1 votesmeh first pick should be safe but everything else is up for grabs.
General Esdeath 1 votesNo thanks. I don't care if my top laner is a Fiora/Jayce one trick, I'm still banning out those champs I dislike.