To all you players that claim "I main this champ, so build like this"

AR URF·May 29, 2018·7 votes·4,613 views

I get that you main a champ, but that doesn't mean that you're always right. I see this all the time "I main vayne and so therefore you need to build ......" How about rather than being somewhat patronizing. You could say "I used to main vayne, and have found this build to be most effective when facing ad/ap champs"

Me personally I don't believe in a "one size fits all' type of play because each situation is unique.

Anyway I'm not sure if this is in the right forums, Ican only assume player behavior since a lot of the time these players are condescending.

21 Comments

AzadetheMay 29, 20186 votes

It really doesn't matter how you word it. 99% of players will ignore you because they do not know mechanics or want to know them.

You can be a vs a full sustain team, and level 1 tell your team:

"I'd get early grievous wounds/Executioner Blade to deal with their insane sustain"...... and while your team might agree with you..... you'll look back at 32 minutes and not a single person on your team has it.

And most people telling someone how to play ARE taking into account the specific game. That kind of response is usually due to something like existing.... or in my previous example.... grievous wounds. Or a distinction between item 3076 and item 3123 on a brawler build (You'd be amazed how many people build vs champs who have built in Armor penetration or don't use basic attacks)

I assume you specifically care about someone telling an adc how to build. But you know what? I have almost NEVER seen an adc build item 3156 vs the Brand they feed 17/3/16. I don't even see them build Life steal. They just keep building straight Crit..... and rely on that Fleet footwork... not realizing that without the life steal/resist, a Mage like Brand can 1 combo nuke them.

I understand the urge to be polite..... but I also think politeness needs earned. I guarantee if I told you how to build in the form of a polite suggestion, in the heat of an upsetting game where you don't know what you're doing wrong (or your team) There's too many things to describe too fast to react for you to actually understand them, and you're probably going to argue with them.

Umbral RegentMay 29, 20183 votes

99% of players will ignore you because they do not know mechanics or want to know them.

...Alternatively, it could be that condescending "I know 10x better than you, listen to me" attitude. For real, trying to claim that the reason people don't listen to build suggestions because "they don't know mechanics and don't want to know" is asinine, and, ironically, exactly the kind of condescending nonsense the OP is pointing out.

Besides, there are multiple potential reasons for people to not listen to the suggestions of others. Maybe they just think the person is full of it, maybe they just want to try their own thing, or maybe they're confident that what they're doing works.

Trying to act like they're just ignorant dumbasses who don't understand or want to understand anything is just plain dumb.

I understand the urge to be polite..... but I also think politeness needs earned.

And nobody would be inclined to try to earn the politeness of some random person they'll likely never meet again. No disrespect, but you can keep your politeness, as what matters more when offering advice or criticism is respect and tact.

As an example, if the enemy team has a lot of magic damage (Sona Support, Xerath Midlane, Diana Jungle) - it may be easy enough to advise "ADC get Maw" etc. - but, it could be much more effective to say "we might want to start stacking magic-resist."

Why would that be more effective? Because each player would get the suggestion (buying magic resist), have an incentive to do so (not getting nuked by Sona, Xerath, Diana), and each of them would be able to approach it in their own way.

The ADC could browse Attack Damage items that have Magic Resistance (Mercurial Scimitar, Maw of Malmortius) and plan their picks accordingly - are they dealing with burst damage? Maw. Are they dealing with CC? Scimitar.

The same rough self-imposed search could work for any role. Tank? Abyssal Mask. Gargoyle Stoneplate. Spirit Visage. Fighter? Maw of Malmortius. Mage? Banshee's Veil. Assassin? Maw. Support? Locket of the Iron Solari.

And, ultimately, if someone doesn't buy something you'd want them to buy - understand that there's likely a reason for it. Maybe they wanted to commit to a certain build path, maybe they figured everyone else had enough to compensate, etc.

Just don't be that asshole who starts ripping into someone for not buying the items you want them to buy.

Kei143May 29, 20183 votes

In bronze2 elo... There was this one time, enemy tank malphite was just being unkillable. I urge my jinx to buy a last whisper and this is the conversation:

Me: jinx, pls get a last whisper Jinx: I will, after the blood thrister

but she only had a vamp sceptre at that time, so it will take 2700 more gold before she gets blood thirster. And she sucked at getting cs after landing phase was over.

Me: please don't do that Jinx: -_- Me: takes too long to come online. We would have lost already by then.

Thankfully she complied and she shredded that over confident malphite who was trying to do a 1v3 play.

Me: there we go jinx. Now we talking. We can fight them now without too much worries.

But stuff like that is exactly what Azadethe is talking about. You can see that she wasn't happy with that suggestion but her thought process was wrong in that specific scenario and needed to be corrected else we'll loose the game.

I've asked people to build executioners and they go ahead and finish the mortal reminder when the enemy has no one building armor and I'm staring at them wondering what they are thinking about. Either they don't understand the game mechanics or they are set in stone in completing the item they started of building and can't diverge from that build. Whatever it is, it does boil down to having good game knowledge for that situation, and down in the lower tiers, that knowledge isn't adequate on most players.

AzadetheMay 29, 20182 votes

I usually start out polite. But when you go through the process 3-4 times and every time they are offended, I get more demanding.

It drives me nuts when a team doesn't think they need Grievous wounds vs Vladimir Illaoi Akali Nami Warwick etc. If you don't build Grievous wounds vs Vlad, your chances of winning dwindle to about 23%. After he's leveled, he just has too much agency in his heals. And by the time someone buys any, Warwick can already be 13/1.

Why would you put getting it off until after a jungle carry is already 13/1.... and keeping constant pressure on your game?

They literally believe they can muscle through heals..... there isn't any other explanation, other than an unfamiliarity with the game's items..... either of which is evidence of not being mechanically skilled. About the only one on that list that's even possible to assassinate is Nami.

@ the person you replied to:

I don't see how someone pulling 2/6/2 could be "confident that they know what they are doing works." I don't see how "wanting to try their own thing" has a place in ranked. I don't see how "the person is full of it" is a logical conclusion when there's a legitimate reason to take grievous wounds, group, ward, not roam risky paths, take infernal drakes or at least contest them (especially if the other team has a hyper scaling assassin or Jhin ).

I have literally had a Shen top be asked to ward...... and then go into a diatribe about how....

-I as the jungler should ward. -I as the jungler has access to 3 wards at a time + control ward (hasn't been true since Tracker's knife was removed) -I as jungler should gank without wards.

That Shen ended game with 3 wards placed the entire game. I didn't have enough wards anywhere throughout the entire game to effectively jungle, because I could be walking into a bush trap.

I mean.... this is basics.

People care more about being vindictive than about winning.

Kei143May 29, 20181 votes

i stop asking after 1 chance. Anything more becomes an annoyance to them.

ı Sona ıMay 29, 20185 votes

I agree that fluidity in building is necessary to better react to the enemies build and to synergize the teams composition!

AR URFMay 29, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=ı Sona ı,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IBoN7EfE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-29T08:19:04.890+0000)

I agree that fluidity in building is necessary to better react to the enemies build and to synergize the teams composition!

Yes and it's frustrating when people build according to recommended or mobafire rather than looking at the team comp. but that would include game knowledge which a lot of people are lacking.

Kei143May 29, 20184 votes

Fluidity in builds are needed, but the non-mains need to understand why certain core items are being built on that champ.

Sometimes that non-main is building something really bad for that situation.

AR URFMay 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Fluidity in builds are needed, but the non-mains need to understand why certain core items are being built on that champ.

Sometimes that non-main is building something really bad for that situation.

i mean yeah. No matter what you're going to take item 3089 on Veigar , but sometimes if the enemy team is like building full MR to counter all the ap, you'd probably start to vary the build a little bit and throw in item 3135 item 3165 item 3020 .

Kei143May 29, 20183 votes

From a numerical perspective, you shouldn't start deathcap regardless of champ.

AzadetheMay 29, 20181 votes

Technically an AP assassin could.... if their team has an Ornn ...... just to ensure they have it to upgrade at level 13.

But yeah, that's more or less correct.

Kei143May 29, 20184 votes

ornn upgrades are a 7th item.

the gold needed to do an upgrade is so not worth it.

AzadetheMay 29, 20181 votes

It depends on the item. item 3374 and item 3382 are absolutely gold efficient earlier.

item 3374 is immediately a 273 AP item. That's 16.84 Gold per AP.

item 3285 is 35,55 gold per AP. It does have some CDR for consideration, but on the AP face it's twice as costly.

RabbitzpreeMay 31, 20181 votes

from a theoretical perspective, veigar doesnt need that much penetration. Youll end up with 1.5k ap and voidstaff + boots is more than enough for him. You just need to have 40% cdr.

AzadetheMay 29, 20181 votes

Sometimes the MAIN is building something really bad for the situation. It's really annoying when an adc obviously needs some life steal build is still building crit after 60%, because they believe their damage and Fleet footwork carries them. By the time they think about life steal...... the Game's already over.

Or..... when an Olaf builds item 3076 over item 3123 ....... Even though Olaf is a Life steal fiend.....scales off AD, and an Early item 3033 negates one of Olaf's primary counters..... item 3075 (He's a hardcore auto attacker, and since other players DO rush vs him, it's better for him to have Armor penetration, extra damage to feed into his life steal, and get the fight done quicker). I understand the need to be tanky on Olaf..... but it's better done by going item 3742 than with item 3075

Demon King MaouMay 29, 20182 votes

I believe league is a game where anything is possible thus ANYTHING Darius item 3309 Is possible. The people that refuse to open their minds miss out on over 70% of the game because I ONLY PLAY META to me that isn't playing League.

MrHaZeYoMay 29, 20181 votes

I play a lot of Ahri, I can't say I "main" her because I really just play a lot of champs. Although over the years I can definitly say I've logged the most games on Ahri.

With that out of the way, outside of bot lane, I feel the other 3 roles have a pretty good situational build and not just a cookie cutter build path. While item 3285 item 3020 are my "core" items and I usually will end up with item 3089 item 3135 (but not always), the rest of my build is very much open for the match at hand. I feel this way for most Mages. 20 CDR item, Sorc Pen boots and then see where the match goes.

I feel the ADC role though is more cookie cutter.

saltranMay 29, 20181 votes

Crit adcs are all almost the same and we still have a more diverse build for adcs than in previous seasons when all used to run item 3072 item 3031 item 3046 item 3035 item 3006 and for last item something defensive or another

MrHaZeYoMay 29, 20181 votes

I mean now as far as Crit ADs it's IE, Zerks, 2x Zeal items (usually Shiv/RFC), LW Item, Lifesteal item.

BIAKabooseMay 29, 20181 votes

"I main AP Dark Harvest Galio, so you should build item 3003 item 3027 item 3285 item 3165 item 3116 and item 3001 boots are for nerds."

The sad part is that the only joke here is calling myself a Galio main, the late game of that build is actually dumb as hell.

Caretaker JackJun 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IBoN7EfE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-29T07:54:22.244+0000)

I get that you main a champ, but that doesn't mean that you're always right. I see this all the time "I main vayne and so therefore you need to build ......" How about rather than being somewhat patronizing. You could say "I used to main vayne, and have found this build to be most effective when facing ad/ap champs"

Me personally I don't believe in a "one size fits all' type of play because each situation is unique.

Anyway I'm not sure if this is in the right forums, Ican only assume player behavior since a lot of the time these players are condescending.

In my experience, it doesn't matter how nice you say it, the person will get upset and likely wont listen anyways... Main-ing a champ and playing one a lot are very different things. If it's an actual main, then that person is probably right.

Core items are a real thing... That aside, Usually someone who really knows the pick will be trying to tell you what works for the situation anyways.

Its sad, when you have to lose a game because you know asking someone to do this thing (that they probably should already know) will piss them off. It really leaves a bad taste in your mouth playing with these ppl who say "i'm learning" but can't take a tip.