I know it sounds heartless, but if someone is playing so poorly, that the system is unable to tell whether or not it's intentional, maybe they should get the benifit of the doubt and not lose thier account permanently, but maybe get a 4 hour ranked ban or something
ModUlanopo15 votesI don't agree with this. People lose their lanes all the time and no one should be punished simply for playing poorly.
vOmvbrawfU3 votesPeople lose their lanes, true. But there is also a difference between losing lane and being 0-4 and decided to continue all ining the enemy and dying again. A clear difference.
scazzman1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FA2iM0PJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-08T03:13:08.175+0000)
People lose their lanes, true. But there is also a difference between losing lane and being 0-4 and decided to continue all ining the enemy and dying again. A clear difference.
^this, 0/4 acceptable. 0/10. pushing it but still "within the norm" anything more then that, and you are either inting, or simply not trying to not die
ModUlanopo11 votesIf you punish people for "dying too often", then play will become utterly passive.
Angry Monster2 votesyou know if the bottom elo player learned to play passive they would actually be improving.
ModUlanopo2 votes[{quoted}](name=Angry Monster,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FA2iM0PJ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-08T06:51:19.791+0000)
you know if the bottom elo player learned to play passive they would actually be improving.
I agree with you, but I don't think punishment is the way to get them there. When it comes to feeding, intent is much more important than raw KDA.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesHow do you detect intent? The entire punishment system is predicated on that, and quite frankly it is failing miserably.
KORGtuners1 votesI would say it depends on the threshold of "too often". I think a reasonable threshold could be established, However, I also think any threshold could be abused. Although, I feel like it would be pretty easy to spot those abusing the threshold.
Devils advocate: Shouldn't the people that are dieing too much actually be playing utterly passive?
ModUlanopo4 votesDevils advocate: Shouldn't the people that are dieing too much actually be playing utterly passive?
That's a separate question.
If someone is intentionally feeding, they absolutely should face consequences. I think the current system tries to detect feeding, but could definitely work better.
I don't think punishment should ever be used to correct poor play, however. That's neither an effective or appropriate way to teach someone.
KORGtuners2 votesI don't think punishment should ever be used to correct poor play, however. That's neither an effective or appropriate way to teach someone.
It works for toxic chat though, right? Sorry off topic.
Back on topic, how can you teach them? I can't think of anything because I can't even relate to them. If I die in lane, I don't run back and engage the same fight again.
ModUlanopo3 votesIt works for toxic chat though, right? Sorry off topic.
It works for chat because you're trying to change behavior, not learn a skill.
Back on topic, how can you teach them? I can't think of anything because I can't even relate to them. If I die in lane, I don't run back and engage the same fight again.
There have been times where I have died, run back to lane, seen my ADC in a jam and run in to help, dying a second time in short order. It doesn't happen as much as it used to, but it still happens. The point is that intentional feeding is about intent, which is often difficult to discern.
KORGtuners2 votesIt works for chat because you're trying to change behavior, not learn a skill.
Intentional feeding is a behavior. Non-intentional feeding is a behavior. Typing is a skill. Communication is a skill. This is not the correct thread to discuss this. I'm backing out of this topic. Get your responses in but I can't discuss any further in this thread.
There have been times where I have died, run back to lane, seen my ADC in a jam and run in to help, dying a second time in short order.
If the ADC died, you gave 3 deaths. If the ADC lived, you gave 2 deaths. If you let the ADC die, you gave 2 deaths.
Not saying you were doing anything wrong or right. Just pointing out that the passive play would have had the same result as your "noble sacrifce". Support lives matter damnit.
The point is that intentional feeding is about intent, which is often difficult to discern.
Then let's stop trying to discern. Non-intentional feeding is just as detrimental to the team as intentional feeding.
Or, we could use tiers to discern.
For example, you are feeding in a ranked game. You are suspended from ranked games until you complete X normal games without feeding. If you feed in the normal games, you are suspended from normal and ranked until you complete X intermediate bot games without feeding. If you can't complete X bot games without feeding then you move to beginner bot games. If you can't complete beginner bot games, then you are intentionally feeding or so bad you are a detriment to every team you would play on. Leave them in beginner bot games as a sort of "prisoners island".
ModUlanopo4 votesThen let's stop trying to discern. Non-intentional feeding is just as detrimental to the team as intentional feeding.
No, it isn't. Someone has to lose their lane and it's ridiculous to punish them for doing so.
KORGtuners2 votesNo, it isn't. Someone has to lose their lane and it's ridiculous to punish them for doing so.
No one has to lose lane. 0-0-0 equal CS. My definition of "lane" is even head to head match up. Getting ganked isn't losing lane. Getting solo killed or failing to last hit is losing lane.
Isn't losing the game a punishment?
How is non-intentional feeding better than intentional feeding? Both give the other team gold. Hell, you said yourself, it is hard to discern intent. If you don't know the intent, then feeding is feeding.
Simple: Intentional feeding - intentional = feeding non-intentional feeding - non-intentional = feeding
ModUlanopo2 votesSimple: Intentional feeding - intentional = feeding non-intentional feeding - non-intentional = feeding
Wrong. Non-intentional death != feeding.
Here's a thought, if your definition of feeding is correct, why don't you ban yourself for a day any time you get three or more deaths in excess of any player on the opposing team. After all, if you're playing correctly, you should always be dying less than them.
I'm not trying to be mean here. I really want you to experiment with having to not die and see how it feels when you fail through no fault of your own.
KORGtuners2 votesHere's a thought, if your definition of feeding is correct, why don't you ban yourself for a day any time you get three or more deaths in excess of any player on the opposing team.
If I die three times intentionally, the enemy gets gold three times. If I die three times unintentionally, the enemy gets gold three times.
I really want you to experiment with having to not die and see how it feels when you fail through no fault of your own.
How is it not my fault when I die? Whose fault is it?
Your experiment has a loophole. I can AFK and never die.
TrulyBland4 votesLet's apply your brilliant math to another example:
8+2 - 2 = 8 8+5 - 5 = 8
Applying your logic that would mean 8+2 and 8+5 are equal. But in reality you're just removing the things that don't fit your argument. No matter how you go into hypotheticals of what we know and what we don't know, intentional feeding and non-intentional feeding simply are not the same thing.
KORGtuners1 votesintentional feeding and non-intentional feeding simply are not the same thing.
No one said they were the same. They have the same effect though; they give the other team gold.
DrCyanide3 votesNo one said they were the same. They have the same effect though; they give the other team gold.
And that's where the effects (and consequences) stop being similar.
There are parts of champions kits that give gold to the enemy, you wouldn't punish them for trying to use those parts of their kit, would you?
KORGtuners1 votesThere are parts of champions kits that give gold to the enemy, you wouldn't punish them for trying to use those parts of their kit, would you?
If they are giving multiple champion kills worth of gold to the enemy team, yea you might want to include that into your feed detection system.
Feeding might be different. Are you losing XP, CS, and giving gold to the enemy, by using said champions kit?
AMYS GRAVE1 votesDying too often is removing the agency of other players in the game, and has the same effect as int feeding.
LordGeovanni2 votesall these 0/4 0/10 but never refrence asists these are scores common on Tanks Burisers Supports When ever other class only ever come is when the enemy would have died without them anyway to ks kills then say im more useful than you i have 4 kills and you have none but you were the one who did 80% of the damage to the enemy every time while the only last hit them.
KORGtuners1 votesI love that you consider assists. Like you said, most people seem to ignore them.
Though I doubt feeders get assists.
LordGeovanni1 votesdepending on the class tanks and bruisers will have far more deaths than a mage or adc because they are in melee range and some times said mages and adcs dont follow up and assassins end up in both catagories depending on the game.
YerroFever5 votesI disagree.
There are a lot of problems with just putting in numbers and saying they should be punished.
I've had games where I intentionally gank a lane over and over again and that lane's numbers are TERRIBLE and it looks like they fed but it was to snowball that particular lane to win the game early on and it's not the lane's fault when there are two tanks tower diving.
Sarutobi4 votesYa, im going to have to agree with Ulanopo, and YerroFever. You basically want people to be punished for playing the game. I mean whats stopping someone from basically getting a bunch of ganks and just reporting the person afterwards for "feeding"? Then of course how would this correlate with other game mode? Mainly the Featured and ARAM, especially URF ive seen people go 10-20+ death because that is how intense the game can be. by your logic every single person should get ban. Then of course there are times when people sacrifice themselves for the sake of the team. Mainly support, do this because they would rather die than someone who would be more useful at taking care of the enemy or other objectives like baron/dragon/tower/nexus.
scazzman1 votesYa, im going to have to agree with Ulanopo, and YerroFever. You basically want people to be punished for playing the game. I mean whats stopping someone from basically getting a bunch of ganks and just reporting the person afterwards for "feeding"? Then of course how would this correlate with other game mode? Mainly the Featured and ARAM, especially URF ive seen people go 10-20+ death because that is how intense the game can be. by your logic every single person should get ban. Then of course there are times when people sacrifice themselves for the sake of the team. Mainly support, do this because they would rather die than someone who would be more useful at taking care of the enemy or other objectives like baron/dragon/tower/nexus.
it would only apply to ranked, and it would only be a 4 hour ranked ban, if riot doesnt care why you dc/ afk. feeding should be treated the same
Sarutobi1 votesit would only apply to ranked, and it would only be a 4 hour ranked ban, if riot doesnt care why you dc/ afk. feeding should be treated the same
Sadly then that wouldn't happen. They do not favor one mode or another. All mode to an extent are treated the same. This is why you can get leavebuster, or ban in say Vs Ai. Most people would say it doesn't matter because it's just AI, but you shouldn't be giving the mentality that just because it's a mode like that, that it's acceptable to do in other modes.
Yes rank should be taken seriously, but if something like this is implemented you are basically saying it's perfectly fine to do in other mode which is wrong!
SEKAI3 votesNo one should be punished for playing badly.
Punishment are reserved for poor behaviour, not for poor performance.
KVbqbFsC8e2 votesAbsolutely. Whether its intentional or not cannot be easily proven, and regardless you're still ruining the game for your teammates.
EvilDustMan2 votesNever. Go home.
jpguy9022 votes
4 / 19 / 7
Something about people in a glass house?
BigBellBrute2 votesBigbellbrute presents, easy answers to easy questions.
Does there come a point where feeding should be punished regardless of if it was intentional?
No.
CrazyBear19871 votesI wouldn't punish Players with high Death counts. I would instead lower the Gold/Experienced gained from killing them.
Currently Players with a consecutive death count (-10 minimum) still give 50 gold, more than a Siege minions gives. Ref: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kill
and if you look, if they just die 6 times, they still give 100+ gold
Lower the reward for killing a feeder IMO, lower thier impact on the game for not doing well or Intentional feeding
ModAttysu The Poro1 votesI've gone 0/12 as Lux before.
I've also went 23/2 Lux before.
Bad games happen. Doesn't mean they should get punished for having em.
KVbqbFsC8e1 votesIf we use that logic, then people shouldn't be punished when they DC or get bugsplatted.
ModAttysu The Poro2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FA2iM0PJ,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-02-09T06:54:08.046+0000)
If we use that logic, then people shouldn't be punished when they DC or get bugsplatted.
Not really, considering having a bad game but being an active player in the game trying to help your team the best way possible =/= 4/5's with an obvious disadvantage to your or the enemy team.
You also need to remember that a support can be 0/12/35 with great wards, and could get fucked cause 'they're feeding' as well.
LBmyBB1 votesThat's like saying, oh you lost a game - BANHAMMER
scazzman1 votesThat's like saying, oh you lost a game - BANHAMMER
it's a 4 hour fucking ranked ban. it wouldnt be the end of the world
LBmyBB1 votesYou completely missed the point. If you're salty because you lose a game and expect your teammates to be punished because they died, that's you're own fault. Grow up, not everyone can go 11/0 every game. Punishment for loss is unjust.
LordGeovanni1 votesWhen you are loseing a game fair but you happen to be melee you will die more compared to mages and adcs the only effective range you have you are in far more danger than either of them and gimped defenses so you have more health than them doesnt help when they have more damage utility range and mobility than you all on shorter cooldown spells. Same happens when you are the only one trying to still play the game when your team has mostly given up but is still takeing farm and kills (which you do most of the work but the only come in to last) when the dont even want to play making games even harder to turn around but there score wont reflect them feeding when they dont ever go anywhere to try to push something or secure something to get your team an advantage
Ada Wong1 votesI know it sounds heartless, but if someone is playing so poorly, that the system is unable to tell whether or not it's intentional, maybe they should get the benifit of the doubt and not lose thier account permanently, but maybe get a 4 hour ranked ban or something
Hey in my eyes some people are just too stupid, and there is only one cure for that pressing the humanity reset button like in the TV Series "The Last Ship" and being done with it...
Nope Riot doesn't care that 3 other players don't take the game seriously so might as well just go with it and whatever mute everyone turn off sound lose the game listen to the anger and report.