Secret Tech to get idiots banned

Penta Penguin·Apr 19, 2018·4 votes·3,169 views

When someone says "kys" or any slur in game type in "say it again", chance is good they will actually do it, triggering the auto-ban, if you say a keyword twice you are banned instantly

[poppy-wink]

31 Comments

NubulasApr 19, 20185 votes

Once is enough.

I love how we punish text in chat but don't care about idiots throwing and feeding and stealing jungle camps etc. All manner of trollish behavior is available.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Once is enough.

Wrong.

"Zero tolerance" phrases need to be said a minimum of 2 times for the system to slap you with the immediate ban after game, assuming at least 1 person reports, of course.

JeLLöApr 19, 20185 votes

Proof? There are many posts in this board's section where they get punished for saying them once. The evidence would seem to support the conclusion that you are wrong.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Proof?

As someone who's 14 banned around 30 people's accounts I think I have more evidence than your secondary sources.

Saying a zero tolerance phrase once only works if they've said it in earlier games (Although that's kinda on the fence, system is a little weird in that regard).

SukishooApr 20, 20185 votes

I've seen plenty of people get banned for saying it once.

Even look around this area of the forum and you can see plenty of people crying out that they were banned from it and only have it once in their whole chat log.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 20, 20182 votes

Then they either said it before in prior games or the system hit them for general toxicity, rather than the "Zero tolerance instant ban".

OR they said 2 ban phrases and people just don't notice the second one.

The zero tolerance system straight up doesn't hit you with a 14 day for 1 word.

"I've seen" is a less reliable source than "I've banned and abused the system myself".

Hell I just banned a guy about an hour ago. Two guys said the word f**, one said it twice. 4:30 after the game 1 IFS report. It was the guy who said it twice. Guy who said it once is actually playing in a game right now.

JeLLöApr 20, 20184 votes

You are literally making things up based on your own unproven opinion. Contrary to public evidence.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 21, 20181 votes

"literally making things up" "Unproven opinion" - I've banned 30 accounts this year (I've even checked them on op.gg to make sure, 14 day gaps on all of them), pretty sure that's more evidence than edited chatlogs submitted by people wanting to get unbanned.

But hey, if you want to believe your own take of "public evidence" - be my guest, no skin off my back if you believe in something wrong.

Hell I'd give you the op.ggs of both the guy I banned yesterday who said f** twice and the one who said it once who didn't get banned, but that isn't allowed on this forum.

Actually screw it - here's the game:

https://matchhistory.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/OC1/206094508/200334479?tab=overview

It might be a little difficult for you to tell which one got the ban, since it was only yesterday, but feel free to check it later.

JeLLöApr 21, 20184 votes

So, in other words, you have no proof? I don't understand how you can POSSIBLY use this as any sort of evidence. There is actual evidence in this forum. A simple search proves you wrong.

You know what? Let's test this. I invite you to duo in a game, you say a zero tolerance ONCE. I will report you. Let's see who is right? Still sure of yourself once your account is on the line?

Xivilai AnaxesApr 21, 20181 votes

Ok man gimme a forum proof of "said 1 zero tolerance trigger" AND "no punishments before 14 day banned now".

I've gone to the effort of giving you the evidence I can give without you claiming it's "fabricated" or having Riot straight out deleting the comment because it has "summoner names in it".

As for wanting me to prove it to you, I'll make a new account on NA right now just to make it clear that you're wrong.

Friend request sent, I'm eager to demonstrate.

AND you declined it - good one.

NubulasMay 8, 20181 votes

So you banned tommy 2 fuks?

Why is fuck even on the list? Are we down to G rating now?

NubulasMay 10, 20181 votes

"I've banned and abused the system myself"

nice to know admin is abusing the system along with the trolls.

NubulasMay 10, 20181 votes

Are you suggesting that a person can not be banned for saying a zero tolerance word once?

That would be absolutely wrong.

NubulasMay 8, 20181 votes

Are you saying if someone uses a zero tolerance slur and it is reported nothing happens?

Cuz that makes sense.

I see lots of people using banned terms in games these days as if they are immune.

SEKAIApr 20, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I love how we punish text in chat but don't care about idiots throwing and feeding and stealing jungle camps etc. All manner of trollish behavior is available.

I love how you just ignore the fact the former is processed vastly faster than the latter by the definition of their nature (string matching is ofc faster than behaviour matching). But ofc not, otherwise how can you make a strawman?

NubulasApr 20, 20182 votes

Always pick easy over effective. All RIOT is doing is training a generation of trolls to type different and troll more. As always, the point is missed.

No reason to police chat text as it is pointless. If you are offended you already have the power of mute. If you are bothered and choose not to mute, then you are just a drama queen.

Punishing people for text is an over reaction to a non issue.

Mute move on....

The real need is to eliminate the trollish actions, not words.

TrulyBlandApr 21, 20182 votes

"It's up to you to protect yourself from my actions, not up to me to act differently."

That's not how that works.

Also: How is this picking easy over effective? Banning for chat is effective. It doesn't have the effect of banning trolls, because that's not what it was designed for.

NubulasApr 21, 20181 votes

Oh I see, so we just don't want certain combinations of letters to appear in sequence.

I don't even recognize that as something to bother with. I guess the rest of you are way more sensitive than I am and something stops you from muting the offensive feeling hurt words.

Nothing good ever happens in chat, not sure why it is even there really. Anything more complex than a ping will be obsolete by the time you type it and someone actually reads it.

As for easy over effective. That's simple.

Easy to use a look up table and match text. Also easy to just grossly misspell everything to avoid the search. And no the chat filter does nothing to stop anyone from doing anything except typing certain letters in certain sequences. Which is not effective at improving the game.

After you perma ban someone, they don't stop being who they are, they just type different stuff or don't use chat. You didn't fix anything. If anything you just made them care even less and troll even more.

TrulyBlandApr 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Oh I see, so we just don't want certain combinations of letters to appear in sequence.

That's like saying "So we just don't want certain atoms to engage in certain chemical reactions." as a response to somebody arguing that poisoning people should be illegal. You can make anything sound arbitrary and stupid if you break it down into its basic components. All of this is made even more apparent by the fact that my certain combinations of letters are the only reason why you even typed that sentence out to begin with. I mean, if those are just "certain combinations of letters" why even bother to communicate with others?

Also easy to just grossly misspell everything to avoid the search.

Please, go ahead and try. I'm sure the results will be hilarious. There's just been a very recent case where somebody was, in fact, banned after calling somebody a "phaggot". Their zero tolerance filter does have plenty of the most common misspellings included. You're also completely ignoring the fact that chat-related behaviour isn't limited to their zero tolerance filter (which indeed is just matching strings) which is, once again, very effective at what it is supposed to do. It also includes their more general system for reviewing the negativity of chat which is based on machine learning (which isn't exactly what I'd call easy) and thus can usually keep up fairly nicely with intentionally misspelled words and (with some time to learn from reports) even completely new insults that didn't exist before.

After you perma ban someone, they don't stop being who they are, they just type different stuff or don't use chat. You didn't fix anything.

If those people that previously managed to piss people off by being inconsiderate assholes in chat stop being inconsiderate assholes in chat (by typing different or not using chat), then that seems to me like that fixed the exact problem that was supposed to be fixed with that system. Apart from that, a permaban is not meant to be a reforming tool. Permabans are issued precisely when Riot doesn't believe somebody will reform and are meant simply as a deterrent to playing the game.

You declare things ineffective because you either do not understand what effect they are supposed to have, or simply because you don't like the effect they have. In the end it doesn't matter because both of those are not what "effective" means.

If anything you just made them care even less and troll even more.

And once again you start talking about trolling where there is no reason to. The existence of trolling has no relevance to the question whether chat related behaviour should be banned. It's like saying "But what about murder?" when arguing about whether theft should be punishable.

Both are punishable. Both are punished.

NubulasMay 8, 20181 votes

You just love to twist something simple into something else.

"You declare things ineffective because you either do not understand what effect they are supposed to have, or simply because you don't like the effect they have. In the end it doesn't matter because both of those are not what "effective" means."

OK so if the desired effect was to get people to type different shit in chat. yay. But all the perma ban does is make the person more of a troll. No one stops playing after a ban. They get 3 more smurfs and play just like before.

My point that you are missing is that none of this is changing people's play, or trollishness.

If all we are concerned about is the little characters in chat, why not remove chat from the game? I have never seen anything useful in any chat. Anything complex is obsolete by he time everyone sees it.

And what about voice? Can't type it , but I can still tell you directly.

Changing the letters in chat doesn't seem like a huge win. It's fukin stupid in fact and does nothing to fix the toxic nature of the game. In fact the troll keeps trolling and when non toxic players finally have had enough and say anything about it, then they are reported! And the troll is complete.

And if you are only trying to affect the chat letters an not the actual toxic troll behavior then you are just being ineffective at solving the root cause. Which is what you are missing.

It seems ridiculous to go so far to punish chat text and do nothing to stop the troll play style. We can all mute chat now, but we cant stop the tahm kinch from throwing us to the enemy over and over.

And no reporting this didn't do anything, So we nuke you for chat, but just let it go when you troll. That's the point.

TrulyBlandMay 8, 20181 votes

So we nuke you for chat, but just let it go when you troll. That's the point.

Well, if that's the point, how about you read the last line of my last post again? Here, let me repeat: Both are punishable. Both are punished.

You yourself pointed out that it is much easier to punish for chat-based toxicity. Especially in the case of the zero tolerance system, which is the only one that "nukes" you for chat, rather than incrementally punishing people who refuse to learn.

If you are given an extremely difficult task as well as a fairly easy one, it makes sense to invest ressources in both, because the ressources for the easy task will soon be available again and you will actually have a partial success. Hence why Riot's chat system is working so well that presumably at this point it won't need much ressources to maintain, while Riot's trollbuster is still fairly lackluster... because it is simply a much much more difficult thing to automatize.

And regarding all those "perma bans are ineffective and/or make people troll more"-arguments, that's purely speculation on your part... Even if it were the case, your suggestion appears to be just "well, just don't do anything about it at all", which seems hardly more effective than Riot's current way of dealing with it. Also: If you are such an opponent to permabans, how exactly do you want Riot to deal with trolls who refuse to stop trolling?

You are also ignoring how many people do in fact change the way they speak/behave in order to not be permabanned in the first place. At the end of the day Riot agrees that permabanned players are unlikely to change. But at that point they are no trying to reform them, they are just trying their best to keep them out of their game. Anything more than permabans is simply not feasible.

Lastly: Flaming happens on its own, can be triggered by flaming, and can be triggered by trolling. Trolling happens on its own, can be triggered by flaming, and can be triggered by trolling.

Neither flaming or trolling are the "root cause" or the "actual toxicity". They are two sides of the same game-ruining coin and they both deserve attention.

NubulasMay 8, 20181 votes

You ignore so much and twist the rest until you think you are completely ahead of the issue.

You refuse to see the point being made and instead focus on trying to "win the argument".

ban does not stop trollling ban does not stop how people feel / react ban does not encourage people to be better, just different, while still toxic and expressing the toxic in a different way or worse.

Although I am sure you will twist this around into something else. It is not a debate you can "win".

TrulyBlandMay 8, 20181 votes

You refuse to see the point being made

Which point of yours have I not adressed? That short list of yours? Well, I'm pretty sure I have, but let's fix that:

Bans do discourage from trolling Bans do change how people react. Bans do encourage people to behave better.

Do you feel I've adressed your points now? If not, then maybe transfer that line of thinking to the "points" you've made. Simply stating things without backing them up is not an argument.

NubulasMay 8, 20181 votes

"Bans do discourage from trolling Bans do change how people react. Bans do encourage people to behave better."

"Simply stating things without backing them up is not an argument."

Agree with all 4 of those taken together.

Backing it up....LOL just play the game and open your eyes.

I observe these things in every game I play. You just seem to have this other mythology stuck in your head of what you so desperately want to be true.

TrulyBlandMay 8, 20181 votes

Crime exists. Therefore crime is clearly not being punished and the entire justice system does nothing to discourage people from comitting crimes.

Am I applying your logic correctly?

NubulasMay 9, 20181 votes

sigh... no, but nice try at the twisty thing you do.

don't think you will ever get it.

Crime A is petty misdemeanor, punished with death penalty Crime B is felony...largely ignored.

TrulyBlandMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

sigh... no, but nice try at the twisty thing you do.

don't think you will ever get it.

Crime A is petty misdemeanor, punished with death penalty Crime B is felony...largely ignored.

Aaaaand you've switched "the point" to that again. The reason why all of my posts "miss the point" is primarily because you always choose "the point" depending on which point is least adressed by my counterpoints.

Either way, I've already adressed this point. It seems to me that you don't need me for this discussion anymore. You can always pretend that the posts I've already written are new ones and continue moving the goal post in the same circular fashion. I hope you have fun.

NubulasMay 10, 20181 votes

Nobody changed anything you just like to hop around trying to twist things around.

You are tenacious but just don't understand that this is not a debate for you to win. You lost when it started.

Goal posts never moved.

You just can't see very clearly due to trying to make everything the way you want it to be.

LOL.....good try though.