Riot Lyte, this whole "No-ranked-rewards-if-you-was-toxic" thing would have been a good idea

Tentakill Myself·Nov 5, 2015·4 votes·1,444 views

If it was announced at the BEGINNING of the season, publicly for all players to see.

I was still remotely toxic during mid august. Then my account got banned and I decided to stop typing in chat all together unless it was a positive outcome for my team. THEN, just today, I learn that our ranked rewards will be taken away if we were banned for toxicity during early august - now.

This is like telling someone it's okay to break a law, then after they break it, saying "Oh by the way thats against the law, you're being punished for it now". It's completely unfair how only the extremely knowledgeable summoners knew about this and there were no announcements made in the client whatsoever.

If you wanna do this, do it next season. It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

45 Comments

KorilloNov 5, 201514 votes

It was never ok to be toxic. You were punished because being toxic is not okay (hence your ban). I can't say you'll find much sympathy tbh. I like that they did this, hopefully people really think twice about how toxic they decide to be moving forward.

RueianNov 5, 20152 votes

If you want people to think twice, you should be clear about your punishment model. Not randomly tack on new punishment because you feel like it.

KorilloNov 5, 20154 votes

Actually I think this way is more effective. If you would like season rewards in the future, don't be toxic to the game.

RueianNov 5, 20152 votes

It really isn't effective to not know what your punishment is. realize also the definition of what is toxic is super vague too. The definition shifts from player to player.

Literally the entity of the punishment system is vague from top to bottom.

KorilloNov 5, 20153 votes

I'm pretty sure you get at least 1 warning before receiving a ban. More likely multiple warnings, so it's pretty safe to say you knew what you were doing that was toxic. You even admitted in your original post that you were toxic...

Honestly it's their game they can do what they want. This his how they decided to punish people who created a negative environment within their game. It is what it is. Whether they decide to announce it or not is up to them.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

If you speed and get a speeding ticket You expect to only pay the speeding ticket.

If 2 months later after you paid your ticket you randomly have your car repossessed because you had a speeding ticket is that fair? Is that clear, does that retroactive punishment make sense? No... Neither has the ranked rewards removal 2 seasons in a row

KorilloNov 5, 20154 votes

When making an account for this game you agreed to play it on Riot's terms. You can make all the comparisons to laws in the real world that you like, but they are not even remotely similar so it doesn't add any value to what you are saying.

it's also worth noting they aren't punishing you, they simply aren't rewarding you!

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

That is a punishment. Because you otherwise earned those

MadtepezNov 5, 20151 votes

like you said, 2 season in a row, you start to see the patern here ?

so it's not totally out of the blue like the OP said

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Yes and no. Policy was changed slightly in August. Last season about a month or two before season end riot announced if you had an active punishment at season end you wouldn't receive rewards.

This season they included if you had a time ban after a date you would also not receive rewards. That announcement was made like the week of or after the date they provided. Effectively double dipping on punishment.

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This season they included if you had a time ban after a date you would also not receive rewards. That announcement was made like the week of or after the date they provided. Effectively double dipping on punishment.

Keep in mind that the announcement of that date was them scaling back - because before that, when they initially announced that they were continuing to remove Ranked rewards based on behavior, they stated that a player who had received a time ban at any point in the season wouldn't receive their rewards.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

I understand that, even them scaling back was handling the timing of the announcement poorly for sake of clarity and preparation.

If they announced the removal of rewards at the start of season or during preseason, there would be no confusion. I have no issue with the policy just how and when its been implemented the last two seasons. Hell I'm getting my rewards this season, i got them last season. People assume that because I argue against it, I'm the one being punished.

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People assume that because I argue against it, I'm the one being punished.

That's fair. You seem to assume that because people argue against you that they disagree that it could - and should - have been timed better.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

most don't want to argue the unpopular opinion. mainly because it effects so few (not them), and specifically the few are seen in such an overwhelming negative light for what they did, and not what they do.

EvilDustManNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

most don't want to argue the unpopular opinion. mainly because it effects so few (not them), and specifically the few are seen in such an overwhelming negative light for what they did, and not what they do.

It's not really arguing the unpopular opinion so much as trying to picknits. A suspension of account is 3 punishments in. Why shouldn't they be in a negative light? They should have learned to try and reform by now.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

no... its understanding that people are human, and there are plenty who can be 3 punishments in and still be trying their hardest to change.

Much like the argument that you shouldn't harass someone who is having a bad game, you shouldn't harass a person who has behavior issues, that is just making you as bad as those you harass.

People have problems, they deserve the punishment that is clearly stated, they don't deserve having their punishment augmented post or during serving the punishment. And they absolutely don't deserve to be degraded as they struggle to change.

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

most don't want to argue the unpopular opinion.

I've seen no evidence that your opinion regarding optimal timing of such an announcement is unpopular. As such, I don't think there's much need to argue it - no one seems to actually disagree with that statement.

The point people take issue with is your need/demand/whatever that they completely scrap the idea for this season because they didn't have their details hammered out fast enough.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Well i mean. I dont mind last season's punishment, It seemed reasonable. I think the mistimed announcement made the current change to the policy poorly applied.

They wont change it, but I am going to continue to voice against their randomly applying policy that gives people little time to adapt. Most people would rather turn a blind eye or not voice against it because it doesn't effect them.

JubbinautNov 5, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Used Surf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=76r1E4Ar,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:23.699+0000)

If you wanna do this, do it next season. It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

You realize it was officially announced around August, yes? Also that the policy itself was implemented last season?

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Ya, but to aid in the argument, It was poorly timed last season as well. They need to make season reward removal obvious at the beginning of the season and not the end. This is an example of their poor communication. They made no clear report saying that it was going to be the same way each proceeding season, it sounded more like another one of Lyte's tests at the time. (I mean we all are effectively his lab mice) If it was 3 months after season start, that would have been OK, but 3 months before season end, it puts more stress on an already stressful time for the ladder.

JubbinautNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If it was 3 months after season start, that would have been OK, but 3 months before season end, it puts more stress on an already stressful time for the ladder.

My point was, 3 months before season end is in no way "last minute." Especially given the fact that it had happened before. That's not to say that it was in any sense a given that it would happen again - only that it shouldn't come as a surprise.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

the issue was it was announced that August 10th was the cut-off date... the week of. which is why they effectively punished a bunch of players retroactively.

I understand it probably was going to happen again, but really the date should be announced weeks ahead of time, because there are players who were suspended during the announcement, who had 0 chance to reform and still earn their rewards. This happened last season with them going "surprise more punishment"

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the issue was it was announced that August 10th was the cut-off date... the week of.

No, the issue - as per the original post - is that the OP only found out about this policy today. Which sucks. But it was announced in August.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Yes that in most situations would be his fault.

My argument is lack of clarity or just outright information being withheld from people being punished.

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes that in most situations would be his fault.

His ignorance on the matter is unfortunate, but they spoke on the matter months ago. That's not "last minute."

My argument is lack of clarity or just outright information being withheld from people being punished.

Then your argument has exactly nothing to do with mine.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Ya, its less about missing the announcement, but rather the announcement has been poorly timed both seasons.

JubbinautNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ya, its less about missing the announcement, but rather the announcement has been poorly timed both seasons.

Fair enough, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm saying.

JamareeNov 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

They need to make season reward removal obvious at the beginning of the season and not the end. This is an example of their poor communication. They made no clear report saying that it was going to be the same way each proceeding season, it sounded more like another one of Lyte's tests at the time. (I mean we all are effectively his lab mice) If it was 3 months after season start, that would have been OK, but 3 months before season end, it puts more stress on an already stressful time for the ladder.

Doesn't matter when they added it, why they added it or whatever. You choose to be toxic, you knew consequences were coming, you choose to be this asshole, now face the punishment.

RueianNov 5, 20151 votes

Lots of assumptions in your post.

It matters alot actually. Riot has been notorious for lack of communication and clarity in alot of their features.

Knowing what punishment you'll receive is important.

Colgate GatorNov 5, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Used Surf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=76r1E4Ar,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:23.699+0000)

If you wanna do this, do it next season. It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

It's asinine to have to deal with toxic people who think we have an obligation to put up with their fits, so I'd call it even.

ZielmannNov 5, 20155 votes

They did this last season as well. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise...

LintheNov 5, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Used Surf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=76r1E4Ar,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:23.699+0000) This is like telling someone it's okay to break a law, then after they break it, saying "Oh by the way thats against the law, you're being punished for it now". It's completely unfair how only the extremely knowledgeable summoners knew about this and there were no announcements made in the client whatsoever.

If you wanna do this, do it next season. It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

Actually, no. The summoner's code has been around since well before the beginning of the season.. It was NEVER ok to be toxic.

RueianNov 5, 20152 votes

The way he means to say it is. What you did nets you one punishment, but then several months later you are told that on top of your already served punishment you get additional punishment because they are retroactively adding it.

DaenNov 5, 20154 votes

This is like telling someone it's okay to break a law, then after they break it, saying "Oh by the way thats against the law, you're being punished for it now".

In no way is it like that. Toxicity was, to use your analogy, against the law both before and after; the only thing Riot did was elaborate on the punishment as per a certain date in light of the season ending.

RueianNov 5, 20152 votes

By elaborate on the punishment, you mean retroactively add additional punishment to players. Because that is EXACTLY what happened last season.

PennsNov 5, 2015

This is like telling someone "if you break this law, you will have to pay X money", then after they break it, saying "Oh by the way, you gotta pay the money AND go to prison lel."

Im not chat restricted/ banned atm (at least I dont think so lol), but punishing someone for breaking the rules and then punishing them again out of nowhere, without informing them before they actually broke the rules, sounds kind of.. harsh.

EvilDustManNov 5, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Used Surf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=76r1E4Ar,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:23.699+0000)

It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

Yes, but you had gotten two chat restrictions. You knew you were headed down a toxic path. You didn't reform and got a suspension. Why should you get anything? You willfully continued to be toxic, knowing that your next punishment was a temporary ban.

There's no sympathy to be had here. It's not like ONE GAME made it so you couldn't get season rewards. You must have had a dozen or more toxic games under your belt.

So, your incentive now is to not be permanently banned. If that's not enough for you, shrug.

PryotraNov 5, 20153 votes

If it was announced at the BEGINNING of the season, publicly for all players to see.

It was, as well as implemented last season.

If you be the person Mr Rogers knew you could be, then this will no longer be a problem for you next season.

Echo KazemNov 5, 20151 votes

To echo what Daen and others have said (kekekekekekek get it? echo?)

Toxicity has never been okay, and this has always been made clear.

Additionally, you don't get punished for being toxic without showing consistent toxic behavior (unless you do something egregious).

I've played around 1000 games this season and I've only received the popup message that I've recently been displaying bad behavior a handful of times. I've never had any sort of punishment given to me in the 2-3 years and 2000+ games I've played.

This is relevant because just like everyone else I bm and rage from time to time. But it's the exception, not the standard.

Echo KazemNov 5, 20151 votes

Your complaint basically boils down to "I was aware that toxicity is wrong and punishable, but I didn't really care. Now they're taking away my rank rewards, so care". Hence the lack of sympathy in the comments.

Sinister AnubisNov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Used Surf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=76r1E4Ar,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:23.699+0000)

If it was announced at the BEGINNING of the season, publicly for all players to see.

I was still remotely toxic during mid august. Then my account got banned and I decided to stop typing in chat all together unless it was a positive outcome for my team. THEN, just today, I learn that our ranked rewards will be taken away if we were banned for toxicity during early august - now.

This is like telling someone it's okay to break a law, then after they break it, saying "Oh by the way thats against the law, you're being punished for it now". It's completely unfair how only the extremely knowledgeable summoners knew about this and there were no announcements made in the client whatsoever.

If you wanna do this, do it next season. It's asinine how an entire seasons worth of grinding is thrown away on a last minute whim of a decision.

bro they announced last year at the end of the season people wont be getting rewards even if they was banned once during the season. Well guess what they did announce it early and people like my self reformed so i will be getting my season rewards this season thank god. But that still didn't stop them from taking my season 1 rewards ether.

DeynaTaggerungNov 5, 20151 votes

So if you knew that being toxic would lose you your ranked rewards would you have kept it together all season? Being toxic is against the summoner code and something Riot has mad really clear isn't ok to do.

That aside this is more a general policy for them than something they specially announced for this season. They could maybe have found a place to put this info that would be clear to everyone at every time but I don't think this should have come as a surprise.

AxestsNov 5, 20151 votes

the rewards for non-toxic players has been done before, not to mention that it's a reward for players not being toxic on their own, not because riot said "here have a cookie".

RandomoniumNov 5, 20151 votes

You're lucky it's just your end of season rewards. Riot could have just permanently banned your account if they wanted. Next time I recommend you read the terms of use before you make an absurd post like this.