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The defeatism culture is getting out of control in this game.

Lost R·5/22/2018, 9:44:57 PM·62 votes·14,087 views

It doesn't matter what happens in the game, or if the game even has a chance to begin, the entire team is now more than eager, even outright SALIVATING over the chance to surrender, to feel the humiliation and despair of defeat.

It is a fucking plague. Someone misses a minion? Autosurrender. Someone has the wrong runes? Autosurrender. The support got an assist? Autosurrender. Someone missed a skillshot? Autosurrender.

Defeatism needs to be harshly, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, H̨̡͔͎̙͎̟̲ͤͥ̏̾Ą̷̼͓̘̼͓͇̥̞̮͆͐̈ͭ͂͠R͎͕͚̯̫̱ͤ̒Ŝ͍̦̉̆̏̋̓ͫ̅͝H̵̥͎̥̜̱̮̞͔̏̎̾̈ͭ͌ͤḺ̹̗̫̥ͤ́͛͑͡͞ͅY̗̦͉̏̈͒̐̿͌̋ punished, because people aren't even playing the game anymore. They just meander about looking for any reason to force a surrender, and that is what will kill not just this game or every future game that may succeed it, but the entirety of this species.

93 Comments

Karunamon5/22/2018, 9:50:17 PM26 votes

Part of this comes down to game design, specifically mechanics that promote snowballing. This is the game in which one or two base AD gets multiplied and multiplied and multiplied some more, to where a measly 5 damage can turn into a hundreds of damage avalanche after it gets done being multiplied.

This is a game in which missing a minion means that the other guy gets to buy his items just a bit sooner, and the boost that provides is enough to absolutely stomp your face in.

This is a game in which the team that takes the first tower wins 70% of the time. After that tower goes, you now have a statistically 1 in 3 chance of winning the game.

This is a game of power spikes, rather than consistent play.

Most people are not Lux IRL, and I don't think there's much value in pretending otherwise. It's just not human nature. There's no amount of carrots and sticks that can be dangled to change this.

KZ Engel5/22/2018, 11:01:05 PM17 votes

i'm pretty sure the only ones salivating are the ones who refuse to surrender games where the enemies have 10-20x their kills and 5+ more turrets

Blåbæret5/23/2018, 9:16:35 AM14 votes

Lmao. The OP is actually putting blame on the players for the meta being a snowball fest where games are already decided in champ select. Give me a break, man. The Reason people want to surrender is because 9/10 times they're just wasting time by still playing the same game. Better get out of a sure loss and re-queue.

Downvoted.

Malevolent Metal5/23/2018, 3:16:48 AM13 votes

Defeatism wouldn't be a thing if the matches were fun. It's not fun to only see a variety of the same 15 champs in every single game. That and snowball.

Ryouhi5/23/2018, 6:08:16 AM13 votes

I only have so much time i can invest into this game on a daily basis - often only 1 or 2 games.

If by minute 10 the enemy jungler is 5/0/6 while mine is 0/5/1 and the enemy jungler can now easily snowball every lane, i see absolutely no point in even trying to win.

With how snowbally the game has become you can see a lose coming at minute 10 to 15 by how many objectives and kill advantages the enemy team has over yours.

KVbqbFsC8e5/23/2018, 6:36:34 AM12 votes

There is nothing wrong with saving time.

Brain Errör 4045/23/2018, 6:59:58 AM11 votes

Defeatism isn't getting out of control. Mass delusion is. If you wanna play a game out to better yourself, sure. But don't delude yourself that you can win a lost game with highly under performing members after the 20minute mark of not making a DENT in the enemy towers. If, by 20minutes, you don't get a single tower and the enemy is at your inhibitor, there's a 99% chance you'll lose that game.

The 1% chance of the enemy throwing the game is simply not worth the time and effort.

Trickster Jester5/23/2018, 9:10:42 AM10 votes

Surrendering is the best feature in this game and I think it needs to be moved back to 10 minutes so we can get out sooner when shit goes terrible.

Chalze5/22/2018, 11:59:19 PM8 votes

Defeatism should be a way to moderate your hopes, not a direction to play towards. Defeatism essentially allows me to be rather tiltfree since I don't expect too much from my teammates, but it never gets in the way of me still playing for the win. I guess it's just expectations (or lack of)

YuGiHo5/23/2018, 6:50:36 AM7 votes

Idk about you but the defeat screen arouses me deeply.

I HAMPSTER5/23/2018, 1:08:12 PM5 votes

like others have said its the snowball nature of the game. you actually can almost always tell by 15 mins which team is going to win.

I just reviewed your last 20 ranked games. in 17 of them the team that was ahead at 15 minutes won the game. and in the 3 "comeback" wins the lead was less than 2k.

my last 20 games show the exact same thing. 17 times out of 20 the team that has the lead at 15 mins wins.

is it really worth continuing to fight for a 15% chance? and that's in a fairly close game with a lead of less than 2k. obviously when the lead is more than that the odds are much smaller.

its an easy choice for me. ff and try to do better next game.

comedybingbongs5/23/2018, 2:04:42 PM5 votes

FFing when a game is lost is smart. It will help you climb faster in the long run

Thilmer5/23/2018, 2:00:14 PM5 votes

I completely disagree with this comment.

I rarely felt the need to surrend at minute 30 in seasons 3, 4 or 5.

Rigth now I will surrender at minute 5 in many games if it was possible.

I haven't changed at all as a persson or as a player: is the game what has changed, into a snowballing clownfiesta were comebacks are imposible if the enemy team has half a brain, making most games incredibly one-sided and therefore boring, frustating and a waste of my time. I didn't ragequitted a single game during four years; this season I have been in the low priority queue simply because I was ragequitting too often.

It's not me; it's the broken metagame causing 50% of my matches to be boring as hell.

Nankyoku5/23/2018, 8:10:54 PM4 votes

I almost never surrender. Sure, I've lost a good number of games where I was behind, but what exactly do I get out of surrendering, save for those 10 minutes of extra play I could have avoided? I'm a firm supporter of the opinion that you mostly learn how to play and improve when you're actually behind. If you're snowballing what is there to do?Just keep pushing and killing enemies?

Being behind is frustrating for many people and I understand that some just want to surrender but surrendering simply because you lost 2 towers or the enemies are 10 kills ahead is not reasonable. Especially in solo queue where the greediness of one opponent can cost them the game if it's late game, no matter how far ahead they are.

I've played a huge amount of games over many years and can tell with pretty strong accuracy whether the game is completely unwinnable or not. Then, of course I'll surrender. But surrendering at 15 minutes?No way.

Solutate5/23/2018, 5:50:03 PM4 votes

The problem is no one EVER wants top surrender, if most people just came to terms that a game is loss people wouldn't try to ff every single game, know how annoying it is to play a game vs a Jax, Rakan, Xayah, Malphite, Syndra, when your team rtefuses to pick according to there comp, so they just lock in stuff like. Teemo top, katarina mid, udyr jg, sona sup, and ashe adc.. games clearly over with in champ select, but noooo, better play it out til 40 mins cus enemy teams to dumb to end, and NA is too dumb to just ff

woodvsmurph5/23/2018, 6:40:28 AM3 votes

Well it's more of that so many people in today's society are growing up taking pleasure in causing other people pain, frustration, or outright suffering rather than in trying to accomplish something good or build others up. You can see this both in league and in the real world. In league, people int and/or troll just to get attention or to piss off a teammate. They don't play the game to win or have fun, but merely to light the world on fire and take pleasure in causing their teammates to suffer. I don't understand it, but that's basically what they do. And we see this in real world society too. Makes me sad.

Karfuss5/23/2018, 12:26:17 PM2 votes

Defeatism isn't ALL bad.

If I wasn't pessimistic and a glass half full, I'd've quit League after Season 5. You'll drive yourself face first into disappointment, into quitting or getting banned for toxicity if you think 'well, we MIGHT win' in every single game you play. The more you're able to go 'not a chance in hell,' the faster you quit caring.

I find League fantastically more enjoyable when I do not care about the outcome. That isn't, of course, how it's supposed to be... But with balancing the way that it is, it's going to have to do.

Though I agree with the point. Spamming surrender is just outright obnoxious. Riot doesn't pay me enough to deal with players spamming surrender at every given opportunity and flame everyone for not conforming.

shh im hiddenz k5/23/2018, 10:13:20 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1lrWx0Td,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T21:44:57.759+0000)

It doesn't matter what happens in the game, or if the game even has a chance to begin, the entire team is now more than eager, even outright SALIVATING over the chance to surrender, to feel the humiliation and despair of defeat.

It is a fucking plague. Someone misses a minion? Autosurrender. Someone has the wrong runes? Autosurrender. The support got an assist? Autosurrender. Someone missed a skillshot? Autosurrender.

Defeatism needs to be harshly, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, H̨̡͔͎̙͎̟̲ͤͥ̏̾Ą̷̼͓̘̼͓͇̥̞̮͆͐̈ͭ͂͠R͎͕͚̯̫̱ͤ̒Ŝ͍̦̉̆̏̋̓ͫ̅͝H̵̥͎̥̜̱̮̞͔̏̎̾̈ͭ͌ͤḺ̹̗̫̥ͤ́͛͑͡͞ͅY̗̦͉̏̈͒̐̿͌̋ punished, because people aren't even playing the game anymore. They just meander about looking for any reason to force a surrender, and that is what will kill not just this game or every future game that may succeed it, but the entirety of this species.

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1lrWx0Td,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T21:44:57.759+0000)

It doesn't matter what happens in the game, or if the game even has a chance to begin, the entire team is now more than eager, even outright SALIVATING over the chance to surrender, to feel the humiliation and despair of defeat.

It is a fucking plague. Someone misses a minion? Autosurrender. Someone has the wrong runes? Autosurrender. The support got an assist? Autosurrender. Someone missed a skillshot? Autosurrender.

Defeatism needs to be harshly, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, HARSHLY, H̨̡͔͎̙͎̟̲ͤͥ̏̾Ą̷̼͓̘̼͓͇̥̞̮͆͐̈ͭ͂͠R͎͕͚̯̫̱ͤ̒Ŝ͍̦̉̆̏̋̓ͫ̅͝H̵̥͎̥̜̱̮̞͔̏̎̾̈ͭ͌ͤḺ̹̗̫̥ͤ́͛͑͡͞ͅY̗̦͉̏̈͒̐̿͌̋ punished, because people aren't even playing the game anymore. They just meander about looking for any reason to force a surrender, and that is what will kill not just this game or every future game that may succeed it, but the entirety of this species.

You die a** lot**. I am literally learning Zyra, far from my support main, and average less deaths than you.

minorhacks5/23/2018, 12:27:27 PM2 votes

Had a game other day we were down 12_6 kills gave 1st tower. Bunch of team wanted to ff at 15. The other team had early game champs that fall off a cliff. We had a bunch of late game monsters. Lucky before 20 we got a few kills. Game went on we scaled and won. Now down 22_6 and your champs dont scale..different story.

The Space Cowboy5/23/2018, 1:52:22 AM1 votes

I agree. Especially in ranked I don’t even think ff in ranked should be a thing.