As someone who's now been banned twice, there's zero reason to reform.

The Highest Noon·Mar 21, 2018·6 votes·1,533 views

Let's face it: the competitive matchmaking is terrible, arbitrarily grouping people based on numbers not gameplay. The people you typically match with are selfish, condescending, irresponsible, childish, and lash out against anybody that criticizes them in even the most friendly and respectable manner. Punishments are dealt out to crimes determined not through circumstance but an objective listing. And throughout it all, players are told that they have to either endure the abuse that they receive from others or be punished for reacting to it. There's no incentive to push through the negative; If anything, there's only detriment in having to spend 15-40 minutes playing alongside toxic players. At the end of it all, you end up like me: banned again because the toxicity got to me.
[sg-shisa]

55 Comments

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 201819 votes

The incentive to reform is the ability to keep the content, levels, and skins you have unlocked, as well as the ability to generally have a better gameplay experience if you learn how to keep toxicity down and keep up your team's spirits instead of adding to the fire. It is not an incentive that works for everyone, but it is an incentive.

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:30:25.673+0000)

The incentive to reform is the ability to keep the content, levels, and skins you have unlocked, as well as the ability to generally have a better gameplay experience if you learn how to keep toxicity down and keep up your team's spirits instead of adding to the fire. It is not an incentive that works for everyone, but it is an incentive.

Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative. You have to remember that you are the one producing a negative experience and you are the one who is allowing your conversations, and games, to become negative and that is also feeding into how everyone else plays around you because you're distracting them from the game.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:34:19.113+0000)Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative.

Precisely. Or, at least, you'll be able to better handle them and keep the game more positive in general.

Not only this, but I think Riot does group people with honor together, it's like an island of good behavior of sorts. Every now and then you get a rough cookie, but overall it's nice.

They do not. They have said several times that they don't want either a Prisoner's Island scenario or the opposite.

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20181 votes

They do not. They have said several times that they don't want either a Prisoner's Island scenario or the opposite.

Lol, i'm well aware of what Riot has said xD. But they did say when the honor system was implemented that you would get more people with honor in your games the more you are honored, if I remember that correctly.

Anyway, there's always a difference between private and public policy. I've experienced waves of Good behavior, and then waves of bad behavior. Not sure where that comes from but it comes and goes. I think it's due to some built in priority que i'm not aware of, and I have attributed it to some sort of pseudo "island" lol.

Anyway, you may be right too. I've just experienced it a bit differently, and Riot did mention something about the honor affecting who you get paired with. So, who knows for sure. I know riot probably knows, but they may not tell us haha.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Shukr4nMar 21, 20182 votes

so endure the pain for the money u spent in the game?

seems silly.

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

so endure the pain for the money u spent in the game?

seems silly.

Endure the pain, because it leads to wins. That's not silly, it's tactical.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20185 votes

{quoted}so endure the pain for the money u spent in the game?

Being toxic back doesn't do anything but make you just as bad. You can just mute the problem, focus on a positive experience with the rest of the team, and move on. Or, if you really do need to vent, do it out of in-game chat and in-game behavior. Scream at your monitor. Call a friend. Hit a pillow. Or something along those lines.

That said, if League is a game causing you actual pain that muting doesn't let you escape, I would recommend taking a break or finding another game. Returning fire with toxic behavior of your own is not acceptable in League, even if it's a good stress relief for you.

Shukr4nMar 21, 20181 votes

yes, but being trolled .enduring - losing -enduring - what more? all for the money spent in game... why dont protect the players who have to endure?

banning flamer is too easy, u read the chat and ban. i can do it too. why dont riot ban trolls, inters, afkers? because "that s too difficult to find those kind of bad behaviour".

in 2018 that s the most stupid statement a million dollar company could get out of its hat.

knowing u have to endure the pain to someone who abuse u with no risk is sad.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20185 votes

{quoted}why dont riot ban trolls, inters, afkers? because "that s too difficult to find those kind of bad behaviour"

You're confusing "we don't ban them as quickly as people would like us to be able to because we want to confirm that the bans are not improperly applied and having that level of certainty in an automated system is difficult" with "we don't man them."

Riot does ban this behavior when it's found. In fact, they ban it very aggressively (save for AFKing, as that's impossible to get the reasons behind and might be out of someone's control). It earns a 14-day ban on the first punishment the system is confident in.

Shukr4nMar 21, 20181 votes

ok, i give u that. but assume for example that system require 10 games to find a troll. he already griefed 90 players.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

ok, i give u that. but assume for example that system require 10 games to find a troll. he already griefed 90 players.

Yep. I'm not arguing I wouldn't like to see it improved -- I'm just saying that it's not something that you can have human oversight on due to the sheer scale of League, and you need to have a system that doesn't jump to conclusions. It's not like they're not working on improving the system -- it's just a slow, difficult process because it has to take so much into account and not trigger off false positives.

Shukr4nMar 21, 20181 votes

appreciated

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:52:11.802+0000)

You're confusing "we don't ban them as quickly as people would like us to be able to because we want to confirm that the bans are not improperly applied and having that level of certainty in an automated system is difficult" with "we don't man them."

Riot does ban this behavior when it's found. In fact, they ban it very aggressively (save for AFKing, as that's impossible to get the reasons behind and might be out of someone's control). It earns a 14-day ban on the first punishment the system is confident in.

I had a Rengar literally say "Shut the fuck up Ornn, you n****r." (Yes, with a hard R) to me last night. Didn't say anything back, just finished the game and reported him. From Riot's list of "byebye words," that should have been an immediate punishment, and I should have gotten the instant feedback report. Instead, nothing.

In fact, this man went on to play five more games after that one.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I had a Rengar literally say "Shut the fuck up Ornn, you n****r." Yes, with a hard R. To me last night. Didn't say anything back, just finished the game and reported him. From Riot's list of "byebye words," that should have been an immediate punishment, and I should have gotten the instant feedback report. Instead, nothing.

The instant feedback report has been notoriously unreliable lately, and, to my knowledge, even at it's most reliable it was only sent to a single individual per punishment that went out, so it's very possible that another player in your game received the message, if a message went out at all.

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0000000100010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:01:11.366+0000)

The instant feedback report has been notoriously unreliable lately, and, to my knowledge, even at it's most reliable it was only sent to a single individual per punishment that went out, so it's very possible that another player in your game received the message, if a message went out at all.

Still doesn't explain why the guy was allowed to play five more games after that one.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Still doesn't explain why the guy was allowed to play five more games after that one.

No, it doesn't. I've also never, however, said that the system was perfect. It slips up in both directions on occasion (erring more on the side of leniency), but that doesn't mean that it's not doing its job well overall.

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:04:16.238+0000)

No, it doesn't. I've also never, however, said that the system was perfect. It slips up in both directions on occasion (erring more on the side of leniency), but that doesn't mean that it's not doing its job well overall.

The man literally called me a n!$%^r. Please tell me, in WHICH context, that would EVER be acceptable. With a hard R.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20186 votes

{quoted}

The man literally called me a n!$%^r. Please tell me, in WHICH context, that would EVER be acceptable. With a hard R.

I didn't say it ever was. I said the system messes up on rare occasions. That should absolutely be hit with a 14-day ban.

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:09:18.091+0000)

I didn't say it ever was. I said the system messes up on rare occasions. That should absolutely be hit with a 14-day ban.

Okay, if you have a system that 'messes up' and does not detect literally one of the most offensive English language racist slurs ever (with no creative spelling or modification of the word), then I think your system has done more than 'mess up'. That indicates a fundamental flaw in how your system is designed. Period.

If you want my personal take on it, it doesn't really feel like Riot really cares about player behavior as a top priority anymore, post-Lyte departure. We've gotten, what, a half-baked honor system that 'incentivizes' good behavior, and occasionally a Rioter will come on the boards and right a wrong that the instant feedback system made (see the instance where people were being made to say toxic things by someone who threatened to int if they didn't).

But overall, it doesn't feel like significant work has been put into the instant feedback system for a long time, and you know what, that's FINE. It is OKAY to not put player behavior as a high priority, AS LONG AS YOU OWN UP TO IT.

My issue with Riot is that they CONTINUALLY say that they're working on it when it doesn't feel like any strides have been made in that department. It's fine to say a facet of your business is currently low priority.

It is NOT okay to say you're working on something you're not.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}But overall, it doesn't feel like significant work has been put into the instant feedback system for a long time, and you know what, that's FINE. It is OKAY to not put player behavior as a high priority, AS LONG AS YOU OWN UP TO IT.

My issue with Riot is that they CONTINUALLY say that they're working on it when it doesn't feel like any strides have been made in that department. It's fine to say a facet of your business is currently low priority.

It is NOT okay to say you're working on something you're not.

I think this is a perception issue. If the system has gone from, say, 99.5% accuracy to 99.75% accuracy, for example, that's actually a 50% improvement -- but that 50% improvement will not be noticed by any one player.

If feeder detection has gone from taking 20 games to taking 15, that's a 25% improvement -- again, one that won't be noticed by any one individual player.

I think it's unfair for us to simply assume that nothing is being done and Riot has an entire behavioral team just sitting back and relaxing -- I've met several Rioters, and all of them have been super passionate about building the best game they can, and doing right by the players, even in private conversations with no company eyes on them. I can't even begin to think they're lying to us about what that team is trying to do.

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0000000100010000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:21:13.528+0000)

I think this is a perception issue. If the system has gone from, say, 99.5% accuracy to 99.75% accuracy, for example, that's actually a 50% improvement -- but that 50% improvement will not be noticed by any one player.

If feeder detection has gone from taking 20 games to taking 15, that's a 25% improvement -- again, one that won't be noticed by any one individual player.

I think it's unfair for us to simply assume that nothing is being done and Riot has an entire behavioral team just sitting back and relaxing -- I've met several Rioters, and all of them have been super passionate about building the best game they can, and doing right by the players, even in private conversations with no company eyes on them. I can't even begin to think they're lying to us about what that team is trying to do.

Okay, besides the issue I take with your math here in the first bit (that's only a 0.2513% improvement), I would agree that yes, it is a perception issue. My perception is that someone who said an unadulterated, unedited word that should most DEFINITELY be punished pursuant to Riot's policy was allowed to walk. IF a perception issue is the problem here, it might be a step towards fixing it if they made sure stuff like this situation didn't happen on a regular basis. And I DO mean regular, like, once every few days, someone uses a racial or other stereotype slur in my games and walks away unpunished.

There's a big difference between wanting to make the best GAME you can and wanting to have the best COMMUNITY you can. Doing right by your players can manifest in a large variety of ways.

It just doesn't feel like (again, perception) the player behavior team is really being communicative at all on their progress. Even some sorts of stats update on how effective the system is becoming would be nice.

On a darker note, you're right, it's hard to imagine that Riot has an entire behavioral team just sitting back and relaxing. Maybe said team doesn't actually exist at all.

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}Okay, besides the issue I take with your math here in the first bit (that's only a 0.2513% improvement)

It's a 0.25% improvement out of 100%, but cutting a 0.5 percent error rate to a 0.25 percent error rate is a 50% reduction of your current error rate.

It just doesn't feel like (again, perception) the player behavior team is really being communicative at all on their progress. Even some sorts of stats update on how effective the system is becoming would be nice.

This I agree with, certainly. More transparency would be great.

On a darker note, you're right, it's hard to imagine that Riot has an entire behavioral team just sitting back and relaxing. Maybe said team doesn't actually exist at all.

It does. No offense, but that's a conspiracy theory.

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20181 votes

No system is 100% man. The tribunal wasn't even 100%. The USA law is definitely not 100%.

Anyway, that's why we can send in tickets and stuff. It seems to me like you should have sent in a ticket at the time and asked for Riot to pull up the chat-logs for that one game.

And besides, DJNN is right.

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:38:53.926+0000)

It's a 0.25% improvement out of 100%, but cutting a 0.5 percent error rate to a 0.25 percent error rate is a 50% reduction of your current error rate.

This I agree with, certainly. More transparency would be great.

It does. No offense, but that's a conspiracy theory.

That last line was mostly added as black humor. I know the team exists, since I see Tantram posting regularly on the boards.

I get where you're coming from with the error rate. Interpreted like that, it's a significant improvement. Although looking at accuracy gains, it doesn't look like very much. All in how you interpret the data, I suppose.

Good talk!

The Highest NoonMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:43:39.280+0000)

The tribunal wasn't even 100%.

I miss the Tribunal. =/

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}That last line was mostly added as black humor.

Fair enough! I see many people who believe that though, hence the comment. :P

I get where you're coming from with the error rate. Interpreted like that, it's a significant improvement. Although looking at accuracy gains, it doesn't look like very much. All in how you interpret the data, I suppose.

Yep! The closer you get to perfect, however, the harder the next bit is to get. There's a common thing called the 80/20 rule, which is roughly accurate -- the idea is that 20% of the work gets you 80% of the way to results, and the last 20% requires 80% of the work, and in some cases the input/benefit ratio is even more heavily skewed. So while a gain of 0.25% sounds awful, it takes a lot of work to get there, as you've already basically built a system that gets the easiest 99.5% of cases.

Good talk!

Agreed! And if you run into someone like that player using hate speech against you, you can always send in a manual ticket. That fallback exists to help situations like that where the system might have an oversight. :)

HellpyreMar 21, 20181 votes

You know that you don't get the feedback report every time someone you've reported was banned, right?

CritDogeMar 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You know that you don't get the feedback report every time someone you've reported was banned, right?

You're supposed to get it if the game you reported them for was the one that got them punished. Given what the dude said to me, he should have been punished for that specific game, no?

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20181 votes

It does take awhile for the system to respond adequately. Doesn't mean it's not working, could mean it's just taking time. You should check to see if he's still in-game, you may see that he's no longer on.

But if he's still on, it could just be an off case. Either that, or that one game was the only time he has said it an been caught. However, this type of behavior usually catches up to people.

Kei143Mar 21, 20181 votes

Question for you, did you report it as verbal abuse, with hate speech, or both?

AdeBugMar 21, 20182 votes

me: "everyone just chill <3" random toxic/feeding person: "stfu tryhard in flex"

ModThe DjinnMar 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

me: "everyone just chill <3" random toxic/feeding person: "stfu tryhard in flex"

Sometimes it doesn't work, definitely. Mute and move on. Normally that sort of behavior serves more to keep everyone else from snapping (especially useful if someone things, say, top is feeding when they're really just struggling, and you can get everyone on the same page), as someone dedicated to truly ruining the game will do so regardless of what you do.

AdeBugMar 23, 20182 votes

u never know til u try it, right? so why try if there's a chance it blows up in ur face and make it worse and I tried defending a losing lane, and it rarely works, m8 :( or I just don't got the magic formula of words

oh and I'll never forget this classic, back when Honor was introduced and wanted to get ahead and start off nice: "hi all <3" was replied to with "fuck u" LOL just bronze things

The Highest NoonMar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"hi all <3" was replied to with "fuck u" LOL just bronze things

LOL I do that all the time. It's nothing to feel offended over, it's just humor in the form of unnecessary contrariness. Even when it's done to me I laugh harder than I should.

CrazyCobra247Mar 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:30:25.673+0000)

The incentive to reform is the ability to keep the content, levels, and skins you have unlocked, as well as the ability to generally have a better gameplay experience if you learn how to keep toxicity down and keep up your team's spirits instead of adding to the fire. It is not an incentive that works for everyone, but it is an incentive

I dont agree with this. lol, Especially if you paid for the stuff. HOwever I understand its digital Merchandize but the problem is this dude is mad now, so he most likely gonna troll to get even pon a worthless account ruining games for others. 100s of others.

A couple things come to mind when I think of the current system. It encourages banning a player to make a profit. BAsically, player loses account, Company thinks the player will rebuy some if not all lost stuff. Profit.

However, it doesnt work this way Id most of the time. Im willing to bet most of the time, PLayers come back again and again and focus on one champ and are super toxic until banned. Im sure the cycle never ends so question is when will Riot IP ban these players? Never is the answer. Why? Because then they lose money or so they think....

League is doomed.. I said it 1st, lol.

ModThe DjinnMar 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}I dont agree with this. lol, Especially if you paid for the stuff.

As I said, not everyone will agree. shrug

A couple things come to mind when I think of the current system. It encourages banning a player to make a profit. BAsically, player loses account, Company thinks the player will rebuy some if not all lost stuff. Profit.

A super common conspiracy theory, but we've never actually seen any evidence in support of this, and most psychological studies indicate that the best way to get a player to invest money is to keep them happy and make content they want, not punish them and deny them their purchased content and hope they buy it again.

I'm willing to bet most of the time, PLayers come back again and again and focus on one champ and are super toxic until banned.

This is a common theory, but we don't really have data either way. New accounts are also, to my knowledge, subject to slightly stricter no-toxicity rules specifically to stop this.

question is when will Riot IP ban these players? Never is the answer. Why? Because then they lose money or so they think....

Nope. The real reason they won't IP ban these players is because IP bans are easily circumvented, and also extra punishing to college campuses, shared home computers and, most importantly, cyber cafes, where a huge portion of League's total player base games from.

League is doomed.. I said it 1st, lol.

Nah. You're about six years behind. Yet here we are.

The Highest NoonMar 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

this dude is mad now, so he most likely gonna troll to get even pon a worthless account ruining games for others. 100s of others.

I'd never do that, but in the course of the month I've been back to playing, I've had quite a number of games with players who admit to exactly that. Someone mentions that they'll be reported for their behavior and they respond with something around "idk this my alt account anyway lol" and it just makes you feel bad because it drives in the idea that toxicity reform and reporting does not matter because it can be circumvented anyway.

In my case, I'll just not be playing LoL for a couple weeks and feel bad about it.

[sg-janna]

ModPeriscopeMar 21, 20183 votes

There's also zero reason to be toxic, but that's just my opinion.

SavageConcordiaMar 21, 20182 votes

arbitrarily grouping people based on numbers not gameplay.

Maybe if you played long enough to get placed at an appropriate MMR instead of getting banned it wouldn't seem arbitrary.

The Highest NoonMar 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you played long enough to get placed at an appropriate MMR instead of getting banned it wouldn't seem arbitrary.

There's no topic of subjectivity here. It IS arbitrary. Instead of taking stats and such into consideration, it's numbers based on win or lose--MMR. The matchmaking system isn't based on whether or not the players you're grouped with are a good fit for you as a player, but what your MMR is. Theoretically, you can have 0 minions killed per game, 0 kills, 10,000 deaths, 0 assists, (you get the idea) and be matched with someone with stats on the opposite ends because of MMR and that's a shame.

[{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:12:11.633+0000)

The mute button does not miraculously make toxic players non-toxic. Toxicity exists in more than just chat, in case you didn't know. Muting them does not stop them from harassing you in other ways, such ass refusing to assist you when assistance is needed, refusing to play with the team, deciding to farm jungle for the rest of the game, never leaving lane ever again, etc etc. Like I said before, there's no miracle to end toxicity as a player forced to endure it. There is no way for us as players to stop toxic behavior and at the same time we're forced to endure it and are told not to respond or we'll be punished. And no, because I'm sure it'll be the next "miracle cure for toxicity," being nice in response does not solve the issue. See above statements about "muting."

SavageConcordiaMar 21, 20186 votes

Instead of taking stats and such into consideration, it's numbers based on win or lose--MMR.

The only way that using win/loss data is arbitrary is if you have no control on the outcome of the game. In league, it is possible to carry or, at the very least, put your team in an advantageous position. Winning more that 50% of your games will result in you gaining more LP than you lose.

Theoretically, you can have 0 minions killed per game, 0 kills, 10,000 deaths, 0 assists, (you get the idea) and be matched with someone with stats on the opposite ends

Lets dissect this. The system is designed around the assumption that everyone is trying (I know, bold assumption in League but to rank people you have to assume this or rankings fall apart no mater how you do it).
Your 0/10,000/0 person is just a person who, say, bought an account and is wayyyyyy above their skill level so they get stomped every game. A person on the opposite end would be someone who is hard carrying a game because they were placed below their real skill level. While yes, these two players can get matched together for 1 game they won't regularly be placed with one another. Instead the first player will steadily drop their MMR until they reach roughly a .500 win rate and conversely the second player will climb until they reach the same point.

You can't look at matchmaking from a single, seemingly unbalanced game. The whole point of the ranking system is that it is fluid, people are moving up and down all the time. You can get people on the way down or on their way up or people who are hard stuck in any given game. If you are able to win lane consistently you are giving your team an advantage every time and your odds of winning go up, thus your rank won't be arbitrary but rather reflect that fact. If you lose every time the situation will be the same, you will lose more and your rank will go down.

MadMad SicknessMar 21, 20182 votes

The mute button does not miraculously make toxic players non-toxic. Toxicity exists in more than just chat, in case you didn't know. Muting them does not stop them from harassing you in other ways, such ass refusing to assist you when assistance is needed, refusing to play with the team, deciding to farm jungle for the rest of the game, never leaving lane ever again, etc etc. Like I said before, there's no miracle to end toxicity as a player forced to endure it. There is no way for us as players to stop toxic behavior and at the same time we're forced to endure it and are told not to respond or we'll be punished. And no, because I'm sure it'll be the next "miracle cure for toxicity," being nice in response does not solve the issue. See above statements about "muting."

I mean ya that's all obvious stuff. However, if they are griefing, and you report them then they will get punished (you can't deny that). Ya that one game will be ruined, but adding fuel to the flame doesn't ever make anything better: it makes things much worse.

Besides, you can play around bad gameplay and continue to do your best. Eventually, if the game starts flipping and the enemy team starts throwing you may see a turn around of negative behavor because you left it open for them to come-around. It's not always the case, but it definetely matters. Otherwise, ff and que up again.

You fail to realize that you can _always _ que up again (Unless you are banned). Ya it sucks if you lose every 1 out of so many games because of trolls, but the game is definitely not 100% trolls. Your attitude is what makes it seem that way.

The mute button is to stop them from affecting your own gameplay. If they decide to play poorly, it's on them and their own gameplay. Luckily, if you mute them you won't be the one reported and punished.

JamareeMar 21, 20181 votes

Actually, you were banned for being toxic, the fact you won’t post your logs shows that.

The Highest NoonMar 21, 20181 votes

A lot of these statements are unrealistic.

[{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:34:19.113+0000)

Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative. You have to remember that you are the one producing a negative experience

Not only this, but I think Riot does group people with honor together,

Umm, what? So we're doing the victim-blaming thing? How is anyone in any way responsible for the toxicity of others? You could be in a game playing fine then you make one move that someone else calls a "mistake" and the toxicity from them begins. It's not your fault that toxic players exist, and it's most likely not your fault when someone is being toxic towards you. That's just a silly notion that you're presenting. "It's your fault that this random person you didn't speak to is abusive."

As for that second part, is that true? I've gone game after game with at least 2 honors and then end up on a team full of people who spend the entire game insulting eachother while I've not said a thing. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:37:58.895+0000)

Endure the pain, because it leads to wins.

No, it doesn't. There's no miracle here. Being constantly abused DOES NOT STOP ABUSE it just gives the abuser further reason to abuse--because they know nothing will happen to them.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:40:28.995+0000)

Being toxic back doesn't do anything but make you just as bad.

So if someone comes at me with the intent to take my life and I fight back, I'm just as bad as the aggressor? I don't think that's the way it works.

All in all, being able to play the game and keep everything you spent your money on is not an "incentive" at all. An incentive is a gain, not the status quo. "Not being punished" shouldn't be a reward for dealing with the constant toxicity within this game's playerbase. One thing I missed though is the honor system in general, which does reward you for receiving honors. That depends on whether or not the players on your team actually honor you, though.

PrimaquariusMar 21, 20181 votes

the competitive matchmaking is terrible

This is all I agree with, but youre talking about becoming a statistic instead of the better man

The Highest NoonMar 22, 20181 votes

I've been thinking, and would it be better if Riot just removed the chat functionality altogether? From looking around, the most common response when it comes to dealing with toxicity or something is mute all at the start of the game and tbh it seems that the best course of action from a developmental standpoint would be to just remove chat and just add more pings.

[sg-lux-2]

MadMad SicknessMar 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-03-22T15:35:20.782+0000)

I've been thinking, and would it be better if Riot just removed the chat functionality altogether? From looking around, the most common response when it comes to dealing with toxicity or something is mute all at the start of the game and tbh it seems that the best course of action from a developmental standpoint would be to just remove chat and just add more pings.

[sg-lux-2]

I personally would prefer a button that automatically mutes the whole game from the beginning of a match. And it is true that they've added in a ton of functionality to the ping system so you don't really need to chat.

But, going so far as to remove it completely may be too far. Chat function is a basic function added in to alot of online games lol.

The Highest NoonMar 22, 20181 votes

That may be true, but I believe Riot themselves had said somewhere that chat itself isn't necessary for team synergy and also discourages chatter during games save for general compliments or criticism which could really just be replaced with Good Job or Bad Move emotes. There are so many options for short-cut communication that actual chat dialogue is pretty obsolete in comparison.

When I say "remove chat" I don't mean from the game entirely, just from in-game. Private messages wouldn't be affected and if strategic dialogue is a concern, that's what the pregame lobby is for.

mnstryviiMar 23, 20181 votes

Hey Buddy keep your head up. Not everyone is a condescending prick like these boards would lead you to believe. A lot of people who used to play this game are just moving on due to this Holy Crusade RIOT is on.

The Highest NoonMar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hey Buddy keep your head up. Not everyone is a condescending prick like these boards would lead you to believe. A lot of people who used to play this game are just moving on due to this Holy Crusade RIOT is on.

I heard about that, but meh. I just wish there was something to push people to reform aside from "Well we won't make you buy everything you spent money on again." No matter how toxic you try not to be, that doesn't stop everyone else you're grouped with from being toxic as well. If what someone said about the honor system leading to you being grouped with those who were honored as well, that's something. I'd need an official statement on that to believe it myself tho. From experience, that's...not generally the case.