Why did you overhaul AP items when they were a lot more diverse than AD items?

LaceUp23·Jul 20, 2015·4 votes·4,256 views

Adc itemization is far worse than AP itemization (in terms of diversity). I'm just curious as to why the effort was made to rework the AP items instead.

31 Comments

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 20157 votes

AP items being in a better spot already was actually one of the key reasons we chose to work on them first. One of the things we wanted to do with the first set of items we overhauled like this was to try and prove some theories we could then apply to future item work. Starting with a set of items that were in a better spot and where we had a better understanding of what did and didn't work was valuable as a result. If these AP changes pan out as hoped (we're still mid assessment at the moment) we'll then look at what we can do with the other categories of itemization.

LaceUp23Jul 20, 20153 votes

So then there is a plan to stop 90% of Adcs from buying item 3006 item 3031 item 3046 item 3035 item 3072 / item 3153 item 3102 every single game? I mean, it kind of seems the opposite way. People used to at least split between shiv and PD, now PD just outmatches it so hard that you would be a fool to build shiv, at least in my opinion.

And what are the early impressions on the item changes from you guys' angle? I haven't really noticed a big difference in builds to be honest. Seems like everyone is still building item 3020 item 3165 item 3089 item 3157 item 3285 item 3135 to me. Only differences I've seen are some champs are becoming stronger if they previously built other items, since Rumble needed to get stronger and everything....

On a side note, this is what happens when you try to take my jungle item away from Fiddles.

TeemoJenkinsJul 20, 20151 votes

[deleted]

LaceUp23Jul 20, 20152 votes

Nope. I see you on the forums defending afks and trolls.

TeemoJenkinsJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Nope. I see you on the forums defending afks and trolls.

Sorry for the compliment, my mistake.

LapisonJul 20, 20151 votes

Wait a minnit, didn't you already post this pic?

LaceUp23Jul 20, 20151 votes

Yeah, that was a thread, though. I highly doubt he looked at something like that haha.

Zair UmbrasJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So then there is a plan to stop 90% of Adcs from buying / every single game? I mean, it kind of seems the opposite way. People used to at least split between shiv and PD, now PD just outmatches it so hard that you would be a fool to build shiv, at least in my opinion.

And what are the early impressions on the item changes from you guys' angle? I haven't really noticed a big difference in builds to be honest. Seems like everyone is still building to me. Only differences I've seen are some champs are becoming stronger if they previously built other items, since Rumble needed to get stronger and everything....

On a side note, this is what happens when you try to take my jungle item away from Fiddles.

People will buy those, but that's just because it's a good cookie cutter build. You can easily pick up an Athene's instead of nomicon, trade out Luden's for a Rylai's or even a Haunting Guise.

ALSO. Ever tried Fiddle with a Cinderhulk, Zhonya's, Rylai's, and a Liandry's? AoE slow is enough to make most cry. The tankiness on top of the zhonya's makes even more people cry.

AMYS GRAVEJul 21, 20151 votes

Yeah, in another thread it was shown that you sold all your items late game and built those at the last second. Don't act like this pic is evidence of anything.

LaceUp23Jul 21, 20151 votes

Are you really that uneducated?

AMYS GRAVEJul 21, 20151 votes

Everyone can check his match history. Peace out.

blackcat1300Dec 2, 20151 votes

why is the jungle ap item so bad; after all this time pleas fix it you have no way to say it is as good as the others. item 1402 item 1410 item 1414 [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-nunu-tears] [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Just make in to different versions of item 3152 and get rid of Will of the Ancients as a non-jungle item.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

TerraRisingJul 20, 20153 votes

So... Patch 6.7 will be when the AD item pass is ready?

darkdillJul 20, 20151 votes

Lemme ask this now: Are there any changes planned for Essence Reaver item 3508 ? The item is a novel concept, but its implementation right now is absolutely terrible. Bad build path, and its lifesteal component means it's being balanced around competing with item 3072 item 3153 item 3074 , a fight it simply can't win.

Honestly, I feel like if the lifesteal were removed and replaced with some flat ArPen, ER would be a better item as a whole.

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20157 votes

When we get to AD items we'll definitely do some work on Essence Reaver (adjust it to make it a better choice or replace it with something more useful, not sure which yet).

AMYS GRAVEJul 21, 20151 votes

A brutalizer build path maybe?

Essence reaver light: builds from longsword and grants mana on damage similar to ER now. the mana granting brother of the vamp scepter.

Bruitilizer + ER light + gold = new ER?

thoughts?

UltîmaJul 21, 20151 votes

Forbidden Idol, BF sword > Essence Reaver

+10% cooldown reduction +80 attack damage +100% base mana regen UNIQUE: Physical damage restore 6% of the physical damage dealt as mana.

Removed lifesteal, replaced with mana regen. Added mana regen in build path. Changed passive so that ADCs & AD casters can now benefit from it. Essence Reaver now a prime AD poke item.

darkdillJul 21, 20151 votes

Ehh, that'd make Jayce super obnoxious. It needs to be basic attacks that restore mana so that risk is required.

UltîmaJul 21, 20151 votes

I disagree. The reason why no one is building this right now is because auto-attacks are the only method by which you can get mana back. No ADCs will divert their build from IE, BT, LW because they require the damage multipliers and the lifesteal to be useful in a fight. If Essence Reaver is supposed to be useful for AD casters (which is the item's sole purpose) then let it be useful.

Sona PingDec 2, 20151 votes

Question: Where do ever see anyone build that?

{quoted}

No ADCs will divert their build from IE, BT, LW because they require the damage multipliers and the lifesteal to be useful in a fight.

UltîmaDec 2, 20151 votes

There's a time stamp for a reason man...

Sona PingDec 2, 20151 votes

Time stamps that someone wasn't paying attention to (cough Blackcat cough cough) when they were searching through old threads and bumping one multiple times so that others would see them multiple times on the front page.

However, on topic: That doesn't change the fact that nobody ever built that, even then.

AMYS GRAVEJul 21, 20151 votes

This is fantastic news, I look forward to potential AD itemization work. I like how you broke up the powerful 4 NLR item build, and while there are some items that are a tad too strong as a result, I think the diversity in build paths was worth it.

blackcat1300Dec 2, 20151 votes

Ap items that aren't jungle related.

blackcat1300Dec 2, 20151 votes

Ap items that aren't jungle related.

DrCyanideJul 20, 20151 votes

A Rioter basically explained that Mages will actually choose utility, while ADC's primarily pick items based off of the max damage they can get from it. Slight changes to existing numbers is enough to mix up builds for many Mages.

Look back at when the AD items changed. It almost unilaterally changed from everyone rushing Bloodthirster rush to Infinity Edge rush, with Essence Reaver taking a back seat to both.

LaceUp23Jul 20, 20152 votes

If that were the case, why not do with Ad items what they did with AP items? Only have 1 top tier 80 Ad item. Then the others can shift from there. Also, make shiv and PD more on par with each other. Right now, there is no reason to build shiv over PD.

jeff13toastJul 21, 20151 votes

I mean, im pretty sure it was mentioned before, but im the type of person to build both

YatsufusåJul 20, 20151 votes

I enjoy that Rylai's flat AP stats are now on par with Zhonya's and Luden's (100 AP). It makes Deathcap with its 120 AP seem like it stands out a little bit more, ya know?

blackcat1300Dec 2, 20151 votes

Why is the so called ap jungle item still worthless. It is not gold efficient. It docent scale into the late game. The moment i go to fight outside the jungle my hp and mana take a nose dive because i'm not in the jungle. It is worse then the ap support items witch are incredibly gold efficient. It is worse then Will Of The Ancients item 3152 witch causes less the the jungle item but is better for jungling.

Why didn't item 1402 item 1410 item 1414 get deleted and replaced with something better like poachers knife.[slayer-jinx-unamused]