We should only make champs around high ELO and screw the new players

Funkin Dunkin·May 31, 2017·2 votes·302 views

What is this garbage I keep seeing in the forums? People wanting to change champions like Garen because they can't get higher than D5 with him. So what? Out of 100 champions do we really have to revolve ALL of them around high elo? What about the new guys? People who don't really have a strong grasp on the game? To hell with them right? We're not here to coddle new players, we're here to make everything for the top 10%. Give me a break...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

5 Comments

Big LincolnMay 31, 20173 votes

I'm really curious how you translate "we should bring garen up to par with today's league standards so that he can function better as a learner champion while being viable in more ranks" into "We should make Garen an uber-complex champion that'll only see play in high ELOs"

Garen is not a 'beginner' champion because a beginner or learner champion implies that he gives you room to grow as a player. He is a noob trap champion; when you switch from Garen to anyone else, you will have to unlearn the bad habits that Garen teaches you, because while most melees have to worry about attack animations, canceling them, or sometimes aiming for a 'sweet spot' on their moves like Darius/Camille, Garen doesn't. You just run at people and stand near them with E on. Garen is not for teaching new or low ELO players the game; he is built for exploiting other players' inability to play it.

Saying Garen NEEDS to be fucking brain-dead simple and worthless past Silver is an insult to human capacity for learning. People are able to improve, but Garen does not provide them the opportunity.

DeclareasMay 31, 20171 votes

I'm going to reiterate, while I don't think Garen needs to be a complex champion he should have some agency and strategic depth in his playstyle. He doesn't have that now, and because of this he is kept at a consistently weak state. Garen is a mess, and new players aren't going to learn good things with him. What they will learn is that this champion they spent a bunch of time practicing on is worthless when they improve, and that will be disheartening. It's not encouraging to commit to learning a champion you find fun and then realize that they are awful in any decent level of play.

Learner champions obviously need to have low skill floors, but the issue with Garen is that his skill cap isn't much higher. Master Yi, for example, isn't a particularly challenging champion to pick up and play. He does most of his damage through basic attacks, has no skill shots, an enemy targeted blink, a self heal, and two steroids. While his kit is simple, it still provides tactical depth. If you've ever seen Cowsep you know what Yi is capable of. Q can be used to dodge attacks and avoid damage, evade crowd control, and even drop turret agro. W can be used as an auto attack reset, and you can activate it and immediately cancel it to mitigate burst damage. Ashe is similar. Her kit is simple, she has a passive slow on her basic attacks, a basic attack enhancing steroid on Q, a multi-projectile cone skill shot on W, a global scouting tool on E, and a global skill shot stun on R. None of her abilities have complex interactions, but she has the potential to influence team fights with strong picks and is an exceptional duelist if her R is available.

I don't think anyone here would say that we need to dumb down Yi or Ashe; they're pretty fine as they are. I'm not saying we should turn Garen into Azir, but with how little he's capable of I hope he can get some work done to make him decent in the hands of and against a skilled player.

UnboundHadesMay 31, 20172 votes

if you went and read the comments you would of noticed that they wanted him changed like ashe a champion whos kit is still easy for newer players but can stillbe viable in higher elos

LostFr0stMay 31, 20171 votes

Hmmm... title and content don't match. Velkoz If you can still tweak you title you'll get a better assessment of your content.

Critmaster GarenJun 1, 20171 votes

i already mentiond this in another thread.

when we ask to make garen better all around into higher ranks, think Nasus or Annie Ashe Aatrox Jax

the champions have very simple kits, while they still had 1 trick mains up into masters. like there were even high ranked aatrox mains around when he was complete dogshit a couple of patches ago. not every champion has to have a crazy complicated kit to be viable into the highest rankings.

but the fact that garen caps out at diamond 5, and no garen main has ever really made it into masters with him (not even talking about challenger), doesnt have anything to do with his kit not being complicated enough. its simply a painfully obvious hint that its dysfunctional in its current state.

i love the champion, but over time riot even removed some of the mastery garen used to have with his animation cancelling. right now there is no room to grow with the champion anymore.

like right now his q animation is so stupidly slow that he gets outtraded by his oppoents because they consistently stun cancel the ability, or dash out of range during the swing. he cant take any form of extended trades against enemies with lifesteal or inbuilt in combat sustain.

its not even the fact that he gets kited. thats a weakness all juggernauts share, and garen is comparably less easy to kite then even some other juggs.