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Becuase so many don't understand what "Bleed" is, let's explain it real fast.

Funkin Dunkin··66 votes·7,953 views

I've seen too many people go "Err ma gerd!! item 3812 is toooo strawng! It has 30% damage reduktion!"

No. Sit down. No. Oh, and no. First of all, let's read what it says. "30% damage taken is dealt as bleed damage over 3 seconds instead."

Exact quote. 30% damage is taken as bleed. Not damage is reduced by 30%. Damage is taken as bleed over time.

"Wut does this mean to me?"

Well I'm glad you asked! It means if you take 1000 damage. 700 of it is applied as** instantaneous **damage!! But this doesn't mean that 300 damage miraculously disappears. No, it means now you get damage over time. Think of this item as converting damage into a item 3151 form of damage, but 30% of it. If you have 800 health and you take 1000 damage. You'll take 700 initially, leaving you with 100 health, then die the next second.

"But what if they heal?"

So then they heal. This is literally no different than ignite. Either they die, or they survive the last tick.

"But they can use item 3194 with it!"

Adaptive helm only affects magic damage.

76 Comments

Darkdemon65360 votes

Dance's DoT is not reduced by Helm.

Funkin Dunkin30 votes

Oh shit you're right! It's not magic damage :D Upvote!

DeathBurst2 votes

Well, you could EDIT your OP, too.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

In fact, Dance works by taking the post-mitigation damage and converting 30% of that into the bleed. The bleed then is applied as true damage, as true damage is essentially just post-mitigation damage.

Rindin1422 votes

I wasn't aware that people didn't understand this...

I think, worth noting in your "they can heal" section is the fact that champions with lifesteal benefit from this item a bit more since they can often greatly outheal the damage-over-time, so buying themselves a few extra seconds to lifesteal is very critical.

Still, not an overpowered mechanic by any means...

Funkin Dunkin5 votes

No it really isn't. I can't tell you how many people actually believe building item 3194 item 3812 item 3046 is 57% damage reduction.

jmp2311 votes

A "fun" build is tabis, dd, pd, bork, bt, and cleaver on Lucian :P ultimate drain tank ad carry

junglerboy161 votes

Sounds strong on basically any drain tank tbh, I can see Aatrox doing really well if he got farmed enough to finish that.

jmp2311 votes

I like it on Lucian because his mobility, passive and his dps

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

I like Lucian because his mobility, passive and his dps

ftfy

jmp2311 votes

What the heck is ftfy?? Never seen that before

AMYS GRAVE6 votes

it means either "fixed that for you" or "fuck that feels yummy" .

I haven't figured it out yet.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

it means either "fixed that for you" or "fuck that feels yummy" .

I haven't figured it out yet.

For The FrelYord, obviously

jmp2311 votes

Ohhhh he took out "it on" prob because he sees I main Lucian????

LordGeovanni2 votes

I can see aatrox dieing as he is blown up before he gets into range

Steelflame19 votes

You can't actually use helm with it, the bleed is true damage.

And ultimately the reason it pisses people off is it turns just about anyone who shouldn't be a drain tank into a drain tank. An extra few seconds to dish out damage (Of which ALL physical damage you do heals not, so its more powerful than just Lifesteal is, especially if your kit works well with the DDance bleed out for some reason or another, like increased healing at lower values of HP...) can more than turn a fight.

ZT Xperimentor12 votes

In short, riot has made marksmen into drain-tanks, while nerfing the actual tanks.

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

Being able to heal doesn't matter, if you don't have the resists and health to back it up.

junglerboy165 votes

That's the point of the bleed silly.

Health and resists are only important for drain tanking because you need it to not get blown up before you can start vamping/healing/lifestealing. Converting 30% of incoming damage to a bleed has essentially the same effect, just not quite as strong as actually negating the damage outright. That's the trade off of this item, you get a lot more damage than the average drain tank does, but are generally squishier. Once you stack this with some extra damage to drain harder or extra durability to lower the damage taken in the first place, it becomes far stronger. Champs that can utilize both are the strongest users of this item.

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

An ADC has about 1800-2000 health lategame. Death's Dance allows you to drain tank, as the burst that would normally kill you while you are CC'd is delayed enough that you can drain through it. If you are a squishy ADC, and you get CC'd, you are still going to die, regardless of whether you have Death's Dance. The bleed will slow your death, sure, but it doesn't matter, if you don't have the health and resists to back it up.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

{quoted}

An ADC has about 1800-2000 health lategame. Death's Dance allows you to drain tank, as the burst that would normally kill you while you are CC'd is delayed enough that you can drain through it. If you are a squishy ADC, and you get CC'd, you are still going to die, regardless of whether you have Death's Dance. The bleed will slow your death, sure, but it doesn't matter, if you don't have the health and resists to back it up.

It matters!

It matters because in the spam of 3 seconds or you, a lot of stuff happens

Teammates can save you with items or abilities. More so, if you are trading, the 3 seconds is additional time that an ADC is potentially doing damage to someone

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Sure it matters, but it doesn't turn ADC's into drain tanks.

3TWarrior2 votes

well actually, marksmen end up with 100 armor which is just enough to reduce damage by 50%, though that can be changed with armor pen and lethality

combine that with defensive offensive items and the difference is there

with item 3812 and item 3046 going to come to a total of 42% reduction of immediate damage taken from anyone in combat with the ADC

let's take a 1000 damage spell for instance, if they build item 3156 (if the formula is still accurate) they would take roughly 588 damage, then reduce this to 517 from the 12% reduction, then add in bleed reduction to 362 with only 155 damage as a bleed effect or 51.6 damage per second

let's say the mage's whole kit does 1000 per spell, that means that the same marksman only takes 1548 damage + bleed and that's if everything hits

of course, this is an outlyer as the mage will not generally be that close or have that much damage, but it is a significant cut in damage received and that's from an extreme overjustification of a mage's capabilities

if the Ad champions are a problem, you can do roughly the same thing with guardian angel and be even more effective in general

of course, this will not stop a snowball AOE team, but then again, few things but a full tank team will

LordGeovanni3 votes

If you die from burst while cced at least 3 people jumped on you which leads to why are you in a place where 3 peoe can jump on you and kill you in about 3 seconds. Deaths Dance is supposed to be a fighter item but most fighters cant use it and nothing is stopping adcs from using it.

xJLx MCHammer12 votes

My issue with this item is

For the few extra seconds you are alive, there are so many things happening.

You, the ADC could have gotten heals or shields from various sources that will keep you alive. More so, it may not seem much, but an ADC late game can destroy players in that time it takes for the DOT to kill her

Essential, this item is insane in terms of damage and it gives the surviveability that they should not have

People get mad for tanks being able to tank and dish out damage. Yet, here we are giving ADC every tool possible to survive all kinds of assaults...

Akali is SO HOT7 votes

People know it's a bleed. It's a stupid item because it makes it incredibly hard to burst someone down due to the fact that only 70% of your initial burst goes through which, if you didn't know, is pretty big deal. Because the item also provides a fuck ton of AD and a healing effect, pair that with a lifesteal item and you can easily outheal the damage over time you take with the effect. I don't think you understand how good only taking 70% of upfront burst actually is.

Sp33d Zer06 votes

I don't know about you, but typically when I get burst as an adc, it's for about 25% more then my total health at least. The 10% bleed right after would still end in a one shot

Dynamiku Entry1 votes

Olaf activating w and ragnarok while you try to kill himwith this item

rG Thundrag4 votes

You are correct however, Adaptive Helm won't work with the bleed since it converts the damage into true damage for the effect.

Cocho3 votes

Lets say you get hit 100, so you bleed for 30, but after you take 15 damage from the bleed, you get hit again for 100, are you bleeding for 45 damage now? (Because it would add up?) Or are you bleeding for 30? (because you took 100, which refreshed the bleed, you wouldn't take 2 full ignite damage if you were ignited twice).

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

This isn't ignite though. And yes, you do take the full bleed for every one hit. So if you are hit for 100 and bleed for 30, 2 seconds later hit for 100 again, that 1 second is going to be a 15 damage tick followed by two 10 damage ticks.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

First tick is 20. 10 from old, 10 from new instance of damage.

Blu3Jay3 votes

Is this a real thing that people dont know?

Marshbouy3 votes

Yes. Every once and a while you'll see a thread like "OMG WITH item 3046 ANDitem 3812 GRAVES GETS 60% DAMAGE REDUCTION, WITHOUT HIS E"

woobee3 votes

I saw your name and the title and I thought you were gonna talk about the insights of Darius' passive.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

What it means is that anyone with the item, because the item also grants healing, can heal back damage before it's finished being dealt. That's why it's so effective.

TheFriendlyUncle3 votes

Isn't the tooltip pretty clear on what the item does? It never mentioned 30% damage mitigation lol

DaNinad2 votes

Ranked:

"dude we don't have a tank"

"Of course we do"Lucian item 3812 item 3071 item 3046 item 3047 item 3153 item 3026

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Ranked:

"dude we don't have a tank"

"Of course we do"Lucian item 3812 item 3071 item 3046 item 3047 item 3153 item 3026

I will admit. I have been this lucian top before, and its glorious to 1v3 the fed botlane, jungler, and mid with just PD/DD/BC.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The best dmg reduc drain tank is Urgod tbh.

And Illowie.

Toru Itai1 votes

Tch can't beat Sion's +100% lifesteal, and 3K HP late game with no tank items.

cant burst him with the compairativly massive HP bar. can't DPS him, he heals for more damage than he does, and with Phantom, Infinity, Shiv, BotRK, Atma's Impailer, and MRboots he has plenty damage to heal off of.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Yeah old sion was lit

rtbf750436011 votes

LOL sorry op, when used correctly Death's Dance is absolutly 30% damage reduction. When you take the damage as 70% and immediately attack in return you get the lifesteal back which then protects you from dying. Let's say you have 1000 HP and you take 1000 Damage. Your HP would go down to 300 immediately and then you continue to Bleed down to 0 over the next 3 seconds. BUT WHEN USED CORRECTLY. You can deal damage to then gain enough health back from the Dance's lifesteal to then save your life. So absolutely this is 30% Damage reduction when used correctly. I love this item on Lethality builds such as graves, shaco, MF, and such champs. It is a later game item unfortunately for me. If you guys suggest to build this item before Lethality then let me know!! I like the lethality before lifesteal so I never tried it lol.

Elohaven6 votes

That's not damage reduction.

That's still a bleed effect. Lifesteal is meant to counter sustained damage but does not stop burst. Damage reduction would be a global application towards the damage calculation step where the algorithm when queueing the abilities affecting the champion would be mathematically applied with the reduction towards the champion.

The lifesteal algorithm + death dance's passive would have the damage instead diverted to a DOT where you have the ability to save yourself and heal. However, it's not damage reduction. It's bleed. Hence it is not in the armor or magic resist category as those are the only forms of damage reduction in the game (other than passive effects like Phantom Dancer where it implicitly states that the item reduces damage).

rtbf750436011 votes

LOL YOU IDIOTS ITS 15% BLEED, NOT 30. Lmao you kids, this is too funny.

Funkin Dunkin3 votes

This right here is a great example of a troll. Someone who doesn't even realize that you can actually READ its description simply by hovering over the item before clicking it.

"Dealing physical damage heals for 15% of the damage dealt. This is 33% as effective for Area of Effect damage."

rtbf750436011 votes

you're a troll fuk off. I'm just relaying information that many people in this thread are getting wrong.

Baka Red4 votes

It sounds like you haven't kept up with the patch notes. It is currently 30% bleed, not 15% anymore. Now please consider how your comments sounded to the world. You could do better, I think.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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