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So I realized this wouldn't get seen by Riot.

Arakk01·11/23/2014, 6:40:33 PM·42 votes·5,289 views
Introducing the new LeaverBuster system!

Disclaimer: This is a comment in the leaverbuster thread being reposted as its own thread in hopes Riot will actually see it. It addresses issues with the currently flawed system. This thread is here because ALL of Riot's responses to the thread were 3 days ago- I don't think they're going back to that snakepit.

Riot: I have seen a barrel of monkeys with more net common sense than literally everyone involved with rolling out this new LeaverBuster system. Considering the fact I've never seen a barrel of monkeys, this implies ZERO. (Unless you count plastic ones, then.. Still zero.) In the past 3 months or so, I can recall maybe TEN games (I did not receive "Leaver" on all/many of them) where I was, for at least 20 minutes of the game, subject to: A: A bullshit "Firewall" error. B: Bugsplat! C: A mouse bug EXCLUSIVE to LoL (Between 4.17 and 4.19) that required me to restart my computer. D: Outright refusal to start from the client. Black screen every time Reconnect is clicked.

This is not including games I was forced to endure 'Attempting to reconnect' (A lie if I ever saw one) for all of / the majority of a game, over the course of several client restarts and sometimes computer restarts. I've gotten "Leaver" for a few of these, and my ping registers as 999 from the loading screen onward. I can guarantee that these aren't my computer or internet connection, but rather Riot's servers and software; a few of the measures I took to verify are as follows: An internet speed check via Speedtest.net (50 mb/s dl, as per my plan. Tested first every time this issue occurs.) An internet quality check via Pingtest.net (0% to 1% packet loss, tested arbitrarily. 'A' grade according to Pingtest.net) Arbitrary tracert to google.com tests. (No excessively high pings. ) Drivers kept up to date. (Graphics, Network Card/Motherboard) Disk defragmentation. Memtest run. (Nothing out of the ordinary) Adobe AIR standalone downloaded, just in case. Complete computer restarts to clear memory. Complete router restarts/internet reconnect- Can I get a new IP? - This works in ~1/2 of cases.

Riot, my computer doesn't hate you. Time Warner Cable doesn't hate you. Your servers and providers are fucking up.

And you know what? "Our" connection issues aren't ruining your game for 4-9 other people. YOUR SERVERS AND SOFTWARE are ruining the game for 5-10 people. I'm not sitting here fucking giggling while your trashboxes chug along for everyone but the arbitrarily selected few that aren't allowed stellar connections in that given hour. Just yesterday, our jungler- playing Maokai, a recently updated champion, on your recently updated map- crashed to desktop with a bugsplat window. He didn't get into the game until 4 minutes in, noone could give him a leash, and he ended up 4 levels behind. Our midlaner, playing Talon, didn't get the babysitting he wanted. So he fed- game ruined for 2 people BY YOUR SOFTWARE. But that's not all- he was toxic all game because he didn't get his babysitter. Game ruined for 5 people. Oh, and the game after that? I was silently disconnected from the chat in the champ select screen. I informed the team that I was rolling Malzahar jungle. So, I locked it in- and after that, someone who had informed the team (minus me) that they were jungling locked in Warwick, leaving me to scramble my runes and masteries for Malz top- because I was put in a position where I couldn't communicate with my team. Thanks, Riot.

Rolling out this new system to punish intentional leavers is GREAT- but as other people mention, the trolls and the assholes will just run in circles around spawn, or move every two minutes to mitigate the idle penalty. You aren't punishing the people who knowingly/purposefully ruin the game for other people. You are targeting and punishing ONLY the more 'innocent' leavers, the ones who have RL issues, net issues, RIOT SERVER ISSUES, computer problems, etc. As you have done with your increasing erasure of 'solo carry', you are punishing BAD LUCK. Get bad teammates or matched against the diamond smurf tutor duo (who try to sell their services at the end of the game)? Your punishment is a nearly-unavoidable loss. Disconnect for any number of reasons? You're put in a lower priority queue, then banned. Meanwhile if you're the person intentionally ruining the game for 4-9 other people, there are very clear-cut methods to avoid the discipline systems in place; you're free to laugh at people reporting you.

Anymore, your game should be called 'League of Lucky"; it's turning into a SLOT MACHINE. Individual skill in soloQ is trivial, discipline is only for the unfortunate souls with circumstances beyond their control, and even the ability to play the game is dependent on your ENTIRELY ARBITRARY servers, software, and service providers; at any given time, any given player might be unable to connect or load the game.

Now, THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS RANT, you are going about your 'fixes' for your community problems in a way that is somewhere between backwards and completely wrong. You're thinking in terms of punishment, but the average player affected by a leaver doesn't really give a damn or have any way of knowing if that person is punished- especially if it wasn't their fault. You need to COMPENSATE the players affected by what often amounts to a fuck-up on YOUR PART. It doesn't have to be massive- Automate loss forgiven for games with a leaver, for one. Abusable? Yes, it is, but think of how it would have to be abused: ONE chivalrous individual would have to step forward and 'take the fall' for four other people to abuse this system, and meanwhile people forced to deal with a leaver-based loss would also come away untarnished. In this light, even if the system were abused- your abuser is simply being a good person, versus now- all the system abusers are incredibly awful scumbags who make dozens of smurfs and get off on ruining the game for other people.

I'm here for polite and impolite discourse every day of the week.

*Edit, note: I've just randomly been allowed to log into my account on the forums again, yay! Another arbitrary Riot server issue, gone (for now). *Edit 2, note: Link is to the thread in general, attached to another reply I made to a very lucky fellow player, but not meant to direct attention to the post copy/pasted here or the post linked to. Clarity. *Edit 3, comment highlights:

It seems mostly abusable by duo queuers who alternate d/c to mitigate LP loss. You could increase LP loss to leaver and have duo partners also lose LP. Then, quitting will only save LP for total strangers, so you have to sacrifice yourself for the others. Honestly the only abuse case here is for douches bullying another player into dc'ing because they either are afraid of being reported or are made to feel like it's their fault and they feel bad. I don't know how bad it will be, but if that change increases flaming, we need to find another way.

  • serpensortia1

A good point here, but riot already has a chat-restrict based punishment and mute features for verbal offenders.

YES! I did something first! My life is now complete! I had the same argument on reddit a bit back. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2m82na/introducing_the_new_leaverbuster_a_new_system_for/cm1ya4v?context=3 I agree with you OP 100% This kind of shit annoys the shit ton out of me. To the thread: Quite a bit of redditors tried to make counter-arguments, you can see the response of others and my own responses on that thread. -PapaFizz

Check out his thread, it's basically the thread this was originally a comment on but on reddit. Helpful: Therein lie a couple suggested fixes for the 'firewall issue'. Also, someone suggests/reiterates a common suggestion that Riot RELOCATE or EXPAND its server base to the middle of NA, as opposed to California being the only place that can rely on double-digit pings (PLEASE TAKE THIS AS THE HYPERBOLE IT IS INTENDED AS).

Edit 4: Another good point.

I totally agree with you in respect to riots in game bugs, but with many users the connection problems they are facing are not riots fault. There is a major problem with online games/streaming right now and it has to do with the ISP; let me explain.

I am a network engineer and connection troubleshooting is much more difficult than the diagnostics you went through. Your packets do not just go to riot, they go through many places, they call them "hops". Many times these hops can get overloaded, and there will be major packet loss for users. Most users do not notice packet loss; it is the streaming and online gaming community that get hit hard.

When having connection issues with league, open some kind of network monitoring software, and find the IP to the currently connected league of legends server (they have many per region, so there is not just one IP). This will NOT work if you use league of legends website, you need the currently connected server IP, this can only be found by running some kind of network monitoring sofware, there are many free out there. Have nothing else downloading/running and it will be easy to find the currently connected league of legends server - it will be the one with the higest bandwidth assuming your not doing anything else. Once you find the IP, run a traceroute to find where the connection issues are at. In windows, that is "tracert" followed by the IP address. You will then get a list of all the hops and the packet loss/ping associated with each server along the way.

In many cases, (this had happens to me before, and has made Final Fantasy XIV unplayable), the packet loss will not be at the destination - it will be along the way! If this is the case, I recommend complaining to the ISP - you'll have to talk to a tier 3 representative otherwise they wont know what your talking about (though that has not got me anywhere yet - even they just give me the run around).

Basically I have solved my connection problems by getting a VPN (you can trial them to see how your connection works flawlessly), it sucks, but it has helped me in many instances/online games. -Latchback

You make another valid point here- but even if the issue is, 100% of the time, packet loss? Riot can but won't reduce the problem drastically. You say they have 'many [servers] per region'. This may be true, but every last one of Riot's NA servers is located on the WEST COAST OF THE US. Honestly, there are people in Mexico getting better ping than American and Canadian players on the east coast- or just Canadian players in general. More distance == more hops == more to go wrong. A VPN might fix the worst of the lag, but an already triple digit average ping would rocket even higher in most circumstances.

In short, it's RIOT's problem if the packet loss is occurring midway or beyond, because players can't honestly be expected to 'fix' packet loss at a hop somewhere in Nevada. If Riot had east coast servers, or even more central servers, it would be a whole different story- but your suggestion is to take a .1 second handicap and make it a .12 second handicap- just to play the game. A game measured in spans of down to .25 seconds. While it may be nitpicky to say this, 120 ping means your input takes half the duration of Talon's micro-slow (HAMSTRING, RIOT.) to reach the server and come back with a result. For people on the west coast, there's comparatively almost no delay- and to bring us back to the topic at hand, the arbitrary connection issues I've mentioned are ones I have experienced, on the EAST COAST.

We might collect more information on anyone else with this problem- if it's assorted players further from the servers, on different ISPs? It's pretty clear that Riot needs to either A: Start allowing third party programs/assistants that give players an unfair advantage- or B: Have servers that are more central, or have servers in multiple locations in North America- because a 60 - 90 ping advantage is HUGE, as is the higher likelihood of unfair punishment thanks to physical location should DCs like mine and those experienced by HUNDREDS, possibly THOUSANDS of other players, prove attributable to packet loss over one of the many east coast->California hops.

47 Comments

Hoi Im Temmo11/23/2014, 7:07:36 PM14 votes

While I really think your rant went a bit hard, and I still love Riot as a company: I, numerous friends, and still others have random issues with league that are truly out of our control. I will be on my computer, at my home, and have 50 ping one day, and constant dc's the next. Punishment regardless of circumstance is a HORRIBLE direction to take this, even if your intentions are in the right place. At MINIMUM such harsh circumstances should be contingent upon reports from their team, and only apply to ranked games.

Xuelixon11/23/2014, 11:07:56 PM6 votes

LoL is starting to feel more like an open beta game.. Seriously. There are too many bugs and glitches, and everything is unstable af. Random pingspikes and random "attempting to reconnect" make this game usually unplayable usually. I love LoL, I really do, but frankly, they're not taking care of it good enough.

bitdullblade11/23/2014, 10:34:57 PM4 votes

The thing that I don't understand about the new leaverbuster is that my cousin was playing a game with me and his client crashed. He came back to the game as soon as possible and we won the game. He still ended up getting a warning. I know I just recently read that they are only warning the people who left for a significant amount of time or just leave completely but my cousin was only gone for 5 mins.

This new system makes me nervous I have never purposly left a game and every once in a while I do have problems with league like you mentioned the "attempting to reconnects" and client crashes. While these are rare and most of the time just due to issues on Riot's end (and they did say that people won't get punished if it is on their end) I still worry about the times when it was my computer's fault ( I don't have the best computer and am looking to update but I still enjoy league and want to continue to play). Again I fix the problem ASAP if they are fixable/something with my computer and go back to the game. why should those people get punished?

Plus you are right, even before this system I have seen people move every once in a while at spawn to avoid the original leaverbuster and they will either wait until the game is over or wait until they get what they want (which is usually a surrender vote). I have even had those people just sit there and constantly flame the team just to push the issue even further. I know those people can get reported for other things but it is still annoying what people did to avoid leaverbuster.

While I was extremely happy that they were ready to crack down on afkers and leavers it seems like they need to adjust the system so innocents don't get punished. I have seen people suggest a system that can tell if it is an outside source and not you. We aren't all pro players who have the perfect computer, we are just gamers who want to have fun.

HexTechBomber11/24/2014, 3:28:05 PM3 votes

When I read their post and they said "should fix your internet before you play" sometimes you're just fine before you fire up a game of league and just bam all sudden internet problems. After game you have no problems with other games but no one else during the game reported similar problems.

Flaws still are existent

Toothless Lion11/23/2014, 9:44:09 PM3 votes

I got a leave buster earlier today. My fucking PC crashed AND I reconnected to the game. Still got a notice saying type "I agree" to not leave again or blah blah blah.

And no I don't leave games.

PapaFizz11/24/2014, 12:47:24 AM2 votes

YES! I did something first! My life is now complete!

I had the same argument on reddit a bit back. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2m82na/introducing_the_new_leaverbuster_a_new_system_for/cm1ya4v?context=3

I agree with you OP 100% This kind of shit annoys the shit ton out of me.

To the thread: Quite a bit of redditors tried to make counter-arguments, you can see the response of others and my own responses on that thread.

Arakk0111/25/2014, 7:14:06 PM2 votes

Hey, genius? You realize this new leaverbuster system affects VS AI games too, right? Literally the only place people without the privileges you have can go to TRY and play the game without getting raged at for AFK? Some people don't have good internet service AVAILABLE. They can't play matchmade games now. Now, these people ARE NOT ME.

The new LeaverBuster presumably has a 'switch' that Riot can flip when they KNOW ABOUT a widespread server issue. Generally alongside the Loss Forgiven switch. Just to clear that up for you- that's what Lyte's post means.

Personally, my only leaverbuster interaction was the 'I agree' box after a dis/reconnect in a game where I still significantly contributed to the win. Personally, I felt pretty harassed. I came and checked that thread on the shiny new system, however, and immediately 'noped'. Almost one in every three games I've played, someone on one of the teams has had gamebreaking lag, crashed, or had to DC/RC in attempts to fix a visual bug. (Sometimes you won't see champs appear on the new SR at the start of the game or be able to interact with the game from there on, just watch, and have to restart.)

You are a liar and deserve to get downvoted, if not banned by LeaverBuster. Riot Lyte explicitly states that IF the connection/stability problems are caused by Riot's hardware - there will be no LeaverBuster action.

Now, this- I have experienced all the issues and taken all the measures mentioned in the post above. I am no liar- I've never been punished by Leaverbuster, and I don't plan to be- if the circumstances are under my control, there's no way I will be. However, I do have a very strong ideal of what's fair- and Riot's ToS paints a fairly clear picture that they want a level, fair playing field for all their players. This new LeaverBuster goes against that- Riot Lyte is practically Hitler, and the Jews include people with chronic medical issues that flare up unpredictably, people who can't afford VERY PRICY hardware, people on the east coast to a degree, and people with a horrible- but monopolizing- ISP (KOFFCOMCASTKOFF) that they have no choice but to use. There's also children of all ages living at home- they don't get consideration though, they know how to be sneaky if they're clever, amirite?

Now for my hidden agenda! Everyone listen close..

I want Riot to fix their fucking servers/connectivity, not punish me for arbitrary issues that might or might not happen. Even more than I'm affronted by this horrifying new Leaverbuster, I'm driven through the wall by random games, for 50%+ of the game, where my champion will intermittently stop everything and not respond for a few seconds, then jump to either walking back to the fountain, chasing a lane opponent with AAs, standing around somewhere, or being very dead- the last one generally when it happens in the midst of a team fight. Because when they realize that this is not enough broad stroke blunt force to stop the actual TOXIC 'leavers' who dance around the fountain or the map in general, that'll come into leaverbuster too, or perhaps an even more overbearing 'Trollbuster'.

CoCo BoEy11/23/2014, 9:41:14 PM2 votes

100% agree, I make these posts all the time with even ways to fix it and they just ignore it. When their flawed system suspends me after I just donated 50$ and they say sorry we can't do anything even though it was their client & servers screwing up. It's the same as stealing-

Urdnot Entar11/23/2014, 11:19:42 PM2 votes

I've come to realize that Riot are masters of getting people to rage at each other while they sit back and laugh.

Kat Head11/23/2014, 11:33:04 PM2 votes

In the years I have been playing this game I have only gotten 2 leaves, both were riots fault. While I am sure others have experienced more, I have experienced untold technical difficulties with the launcher, patcher and attempting to connect errors. The amount of times I have missed 5 % of a game because of riot problems is actually really REALLY high though and makes me worry about this new system.

I have never and will never leave a game intentionally, if I am ever punished by leaver buster for a problem on riots end I will no longer play this game. Pretty simple actually, I will not be punished because you are not good at running, implementing and maintaining your game and server infrastructure.

Careful Riot !

jimmylism11/24/2014, 12:30:34 AM2 votes

I dc'ed in a beginner bot game for 8 minutes and came back and won anyways. Still got warned :(

SloaneWolf11/24/2014, 3:12:33 PM2 votes

Well, at least we finally got a response on what they gonna do about east coast players: genocide.

Joey Montague11/24/2014, 5:18:20 PM2 votes

Disclaimer: This is a comment in the leaverbuster thread being reposted as its own thread in hopes Riot will actually see it. It addresses issues with the currently flawed system. This thread is here because ALL of Riot's responses to the thread were 3 days ago- I don't think they're going back to that snakepit.

Riot: I have seen a barrel of monkeys with more net common sense than literally everyone involved with rolling out this new LeaverBuster system. Considering the fact I've never seen a barrel of monkeys, this implies ZERO. (Unless you count plastic ones, then.. Still zero.) In the past 3 months or so, I can recall maybe TEN games (I did not receive "Leaver" on all/many of them) where I was, for at least 20 minutes of the game, subject to: A: A bullshit "Firewall" error. B: Bugsplat! C: A mouse bug EXCLUSIVE to LoL (Between 4.17 and 4.19) that required me to restart my computer. D: Outright refusal to start from the client. Black screen every time Reconnect is clicked.

This is not including games I was forced to endure 'Attempting to reconnect' (A lie if I ever saw one) for all of / the majority of a game, over the course of several client restarts and sometimes computer restarts. I've gotten "Leaver" for a few of these, and my ping registers as 999 from the loading screen onward. I can guarantee that these aren't my computer or internet connection, but rather Riot's servers and software; a few of the measures I took to verify are as follows:

You are a liar and deserve to get downvoted, if not banned by LeaverBuster. Riot Lyte explicitly states that IF the connection/stability problems are caused by Riot's hardware - there will be no LeaverBuster action.

You think you can sneakily say: "I got Leaver tagged" and equate it with LeaverBuster action? Well too bad. We see through your guise. YOU MIGHT GET LEAVER TAGGED, BUT YOU WON'T GET LEAVERBUSTER PUNISHED!

I abhor your post, your thread, and the accusations you've spewed just to further your political agenda of dissing LeaverBuster.

It's people like you that ruin irl journalism.

Don't ever try this again.

D0nC11/24/2014, 8:52:25 PM2 votes

http://troll.me/images2/riots-reponse/riots-response.jpg

Eleshakai11/24/2014, 9:21:22 PM2 votes

I don't necessarily agree with your solution, but I absolutely agree that this is a problem.

The abuse case Riot refers to is not the actual likelihood of people getting loss forgiven, but the problem of this encouraging toxicity in games to try to GET someone to leave. It doesn't matter how often they succeed, what matters is how often they try... and even if eventually they get banned, we're encouraging people to start insulting each other once they start losing in the hopes someone leaves to get loss forgiven. I don't necessarily agree that's a good precedent to set.

But I do absolutely agree that this Leaverbuster is a horrible system that desperately needs to be rethought.

iamthegoatofwar11/24/2014, 9:41:45 PM2 votes

Lol yha sure or you could just listen to what people say and come up with real arguments. At least I'm willing to try and talk to a sheep.

D0nC11/25/2014, 4:43:01 PM1 votes

Such a good post buried in a pile of pointless posts and ' would be ' spam.

Flyntloch11/24/2014, 8:26:01 PM1 votes

I feel like that Leaverbuster did nothing pre update, now that it does it is overpowering for say a Thunderstorm, or a blackout. At least be harsh on some cases but you can't be this strict or that lax before.

Pretty much though, I sometimes see people get internet problems mid match, I do to, It's 50% of the time riot screwing me over, 49% for having a download going that I forgot about/My fault for unplugging my CPU, and 1% from so called 'DDoS's'.

DioBrandoh11/23/2014, 11:43:38 PM1 votes

They shouldn't launch this new leaverbuster until they can actually make their client not suck. If I get a single ban because of this nonsense I'm permanently quitting. I already have an account for heroes of the storm which is a game that actually puts effort into hero design, balance, and interesting maps. Not to mention Smite which I've played during several LoL hiatuses I've had. I'm really attached to LoL though since I love the jungle mechanics and I've been a player since S1, LoL really is an interesting game and I want it to succeed. However Riot is getting stingier and greedier with time and I do have a breaking point, they aren't obligated to my money.

Xengre11/24/2014, 1:03:05 AM1 votes

I'd submit a ticket to Player Support and get some technical help, this is probably related to your personal setup :(

No, this is a known bug if the player is referring to what I believe he/she is. It isn't a rare bug either, though I don't know if it has been fixed, myself, since I have had almost no time to play lately. The glitch basically causes you to d/c in game even though your internet is fine and it will never, ever, reconnect on its own. It requires you to exit the DirectX client and reconnect from the Adobe Air client where it will reconnect without issue as if you never had an issue. While the d/c is occurring you can actively check your internet, perform a speed test, watch videos, check your connection history, etc. and see no issue on your end. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/mEd0QUGl-fix-the-atempting-to-reconnect-bug?comment=00010000

If the servers have issues and it causes semi-large or large scale d/c problems will players who d/c before loss forgiveness is turned on be at risk of punishment/strikes from this system? You guys are often late, sometimes extraordinarily late, at turning on loss forgiveness. If you guys have designed the system to not fault the player in this circumstance then I am definitely for the new leave buster and would love to see "never connected to match" issues resolved as well. Of course, that d/c bug... may still need to be addressed as it is definitely not user end.

Here is a quote on the thread Lyte made regarding the new LeaveBuster issue. In that thread he claims it wont hit you if its an issue on Riot's end, but I question this. Won't know for sure until it goes wrong, and if it doesn't we will just keep waiting too see until we can assume its all good unless they actually elaborate on how they are handling this so we can know for sure. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/EZbHLGZY-introducing-the-new-leaverbuster-system?show=flat&comment=002f0004

Alëk11/24/2014, 1:28:29 AM1 votes

Damn... you came down hard on dem niggas. True story tho

Latchback11/24/2014, 9:22:16 AM1 votes

I totally agree with you in respect to riots in game bugs, but with many users the connection problems they are facing are not riots fault. There is a major problem with online games/streaming right now and it has to do with the ISP; let me explain.

I am a network engineer and connection troubleshooting is much more difficult than the diagnostics you went through. Your packets do not just go to riot, they go through many places, they call them "hops". Many times these hops can get overloaded, and there will be major packet loss for users. Most users do not notice packet loss; it is the streaming and online gaming community that get hit hard.

When having connection issues with league, open some kind of network monitoring software, and find the IP to the currently connected league of legends server (they have many per region, so there is not just one IP). This will NOT work if you use league of legends website, you need the currently connected server IP, this can only be found by running some kind of network monitoring sofware, there are many free out there. Have nothing else downloading/running and it will be easy to find the currently connected league of legends server - it will be the one with the higest bandwidth assuming your not doing anything else. Once you find the IP, run a traceroute to find where the connection issues are at. In windows, that is "tracert" followed by the IP address. You will then get a list of all the hops and the packet loss/ping associated with each server along the way.

In many cases, (this had happens to me before, and has made Final Fantasy XIV unplayable), the packet loss will not be at the destination - it will be along the way! If this is the case, I recommend complaining to the ISP - you'll have to talk to a tier 3 representative otherwise they wont know what your talking about (though that has not got me anywhere yet - even they just give me the run around).

Basically I have solved my connection problems by getting a VPN (you can trial them to see how your connection works flawlessly), it sucks, but it has helped me in many instances/online games.

Drunk Rummate11/24/2014, 9:11:32 PM1 votes

i keep seeing this thread pop up, but if what you're saying is true then why isn't everyone affected? i've personally received zero warnings despite having similar connection issues to what you've described. perhaps it happens more frequently to you than the average player, in which case it may be a problem with your setup that could be fixed if you took some time to work it out.

De Middle Man11/24/2014, 12:08:28 AM1 votes

Amen to that