Harsh Criticism & MY GOD BRING BACK THE TRIBUNAL?

Arakk01·2/29/2016, 10:47:36 PM·5 votes·1,805 views

Let me share the chat logs I was chat restricted for, people: Yeah, nope. Because you can't read further. It's pretty pathetic, because there was a lot more to read. Essentially, Riot takes all of the 'bad' things you said automatically, crops anything the system can identify as 'neutral' or 'pleasant', and presents them without context to explain WHY a player is talking in caps or using certain words (in this case, imitation. It's the sincerest form of hating someone's guts but trying to get a message across).

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely. But even without context, you can see a pretty clear picture here. Varus repeatedly bothers everyone on the team for ganks- I move to gank for him. He shoves his lane after I ask him in chat to bait his laner in, he dies, starts complaining again. Was I harsh in explaining that he needed to get it through his thick, mostly hollow skull that noone can gank with his lane shoved? Definitely. If you'll note, more pleasant snippets of conversation with my support are cropped.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League to a feeding Varus? (Who, for context, blatantly posted in chat, "That's it, no ganks, I'm trolling you now") A chat restriction. Now, I know it's quite likely this post will be ignored- no Rioter has ever earnestly responded to a blatant flaw in their system.

But -MAYBE-, removing the human, community-centric element of player discipline was the laziest, least effective move you ever made. I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined- I can only assume the 'intentional feeding' category is a placebo. More than chat, more than even AFK teammates, intentionally sabotaging or griefing your teammates ruins games- and the players that do this are unequivocally wanted OUT of the community, most of whom could care less about 'a little salt'. Racial slurs, demands for players to kill themselves, and similar harassment- certainly. Restrict it. Habitual rage-quitting? Definitely stop that, but for players who just can't connect- maybe use your built-in ping detection to determine if it's a connection error, as a from-level-1 AFK game is still somewhat winnable, as long as it doesn't give the enemy an advantage. This isn't something you can solve with an automated system, however- and they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

Here's where I have a problem: A real human being could look at my chat logs and note that I'm a heavy communicator. When something goes wrong, I'll explain what to my teammates. I'll instruct players on better build paths for a given game. I'll type out my intent in chat before I make a major play (such as an Azir siege, or in this game, a pre-game discussion with Thresh to work out CC-chaining tactics). As that type of player, I'm also going to let someone know if they're behaving in a stupid manner (e.g. repeatedly making the same mistake and/or refusing to learn or take advice/pings that can save them). As a player that relies on communication in my attempts to at least put my team in a carriable state for myself or another teammate who is ahead, if not set them on a path that will make them somewhat relevant? A chat restriction is a vastly unfair and disproportionate punishment. For malicious, outright toxic players, a chat restriction is just an invitation to display toxic in-game behavior while they can't use the chat- as mentioned previously, this isn't something a script can detect- and if one was made to do it, a lot of (admittedly very bad) legitimate players would be filtered out by the system.

In other words: Either bring back the tribunal or create a real 'elo hell'. A hell independent of actual rank, fueled by toxic players exposed exclusively to one another. A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored. At a certain threshold, you are silently, automatically moved to a 'prisoner's island' queue. An interactive system like this accomplishes two things- it makes the honor system actually relevant at the lower ranks, and allows PLAYERS, as opposed to an extensively flawed automatic system, to control who they see in their games. Continuous offenders who noone in the community wants to play with will be dropped from normal queues, while players with a net positive or neutral effect won't be punished for a bad game or the automatic discipline associated with the word 'report'. (It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.) This also eliminates the frustrations associated with upstanding players feeling their reports are ignored- if the person ruining the game for your team is free game with their reports being ignored, THEY will not feel empowered to elicit a reaction and then turn around to exploit trigger words on the automated discipline system. Likewise, positive players will have their positive behavior reinforced with the power to actually stop repeat trolls from being in their games.

Wasted breath, I know.

45 Comments

Dominick Destine2/29/2016, 11:02:46 PM5 votes

Let's see, maybe this person is not toxic and Riot has made a mistake.... recently they rescinded a ban which was a monumental occasion, someone was legitimately NOT guilty.... so who knows I have a higher hope that others will be the same and justice will ultimately be served.

That's retarded Reksai is just a retard. Fuck you Varus I CAME TO GANK FOR YOU BUT YOU HAVE YOUR LANE FUCKING SHOVED HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE WE ARE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR A GANK. DO IT, OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. You wasted my time and my ult trying to gank for you. WE WANT TO STOP YOUR FEEDING BUT YOU ARE PUSHED UP CONSTANTLY. This Varus DOESN'T FUCKING GET IT. Crying for ganks RekSai is bad Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there. He just needs to learn finer mechanics, like lane control. You said it in chat. Now we can report it.

Very toxic.

Justified punishment... sigh, I guess having faith in my fellow players will invariably lead to disappointment.

I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined

.

I get... a chat restriction

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ic97mPViHEG5O/giphy.gif

Twiggles2/29/2016, 11:59:02 PM4 votes

Reksai is just a retard.

This.

Fuck you Varus

Is.

HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE

NOT.

Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there.

Constructive.

BG

Criticism.

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely.

Context is irrelevant. You are responsible for your own reprehensible behavior.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League IN THE DOUCHIEST AND LEAST HELPFUL WAY POSSIBLE to a feeding Varus?

I fixed that line for you for you since you left out the detail that actually got you punished.

they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

This is just blatantly false. One of the differences here is that intentional feeders don't come to the boards to whine about their punishments. This is because they don't have the same twisted support network that verbal abusers seem to have.

A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored.

Say hello to toxic players honor farming. This is a patently terrible idea.

It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.

No power has been taken away from legitimate players. Reports are counted on a 'per game' basis. Not straight up report volume. One report in a single game is worth just as much as nine. Threatening/begging for reports is a punishable form of harassment since all it does is put the threatened party even more on tilt and make a bad situation even worse. The current report system is designed this way to prevent premades from ganging up on solo queue players. Your one report is enough to flag the match and account. You don't need more reports, and you don't need to call attention to the fact that you are reporting. It. Does. Not. Help.

Honestly, you were chat restricted. It isn't nearly as big of a deal as you seem to think. Just try not to be such an asshole in the chat. You don't need to tell people that they are retarded. If they are doing poorly, chances are that they already know. Insulting them over it won't remedy the situation. It'll only put them on tilt.

Lime Josh2/29/2016, 11:21:27 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Let me share the chat logs I was chat restricted for, people: Ypi You're gonna have a baaaaad time.. MF. Yes! <3 Hold under tower WHY DOES SHE DO SO MUCH DAMAGE FUCKIGN That's retarded Riot must have accidentally buffed her. OH MY GOD REKSAI I will gank for you Reksai is just a retard. Bait Fuck you Varus I CAME TO GANK FOR YOU BUT YOU HAVE YOUR LANE FUCKING SHOVED Oh fuck me .... Varus The problem is not your jungler It's you It's EVERY TIME because you shove your lane ... HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE Look where your wave is right now. Why is Lux going to push up where Reksai can gank her VARUS WE ARE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR A GANK. DO IT, OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. You wasted my time and my ult trying to gank for you. ... DUDE FREEZE YOUR WAVE AND WE CAN MOVE UP TO YOU. WE WANT TO STOP YOUR FEEDING BUT YOU ARE PUSHED UP CONSTANTLY. This Varus DOESN'T FUCKING GET IT. Crying for ganks You said it in chat. Now we can report it. :) Nah, we were winning bot. That fucking lifesteal. To be fair, we lost our tower because I roamed to help Varus and he shoved when I asked him to let her push. Left me sitting in his bush half a minute. Not gonna FF. RekSai is bad But your whining has put her on tilt. Rofl, you, me, and GP Thresh. Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there. He just needs to learn finer mechanics, like lane control. Tbh, Thresh is good. BG I'll vote trump first. :/

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely. But even without context, you can see a pretty clear picture here. Varus repeatedly bothers everyone on the team for ganks- I move to gank for him. He shoves his lane after I ask him in chat to bait his laner in, he dies, starts complaining again. Was I harsh in explaining that he needed to get it through his thick, mostly hollow skull that noone can gank with his lane shoved? Definitely. If you'll note, more pleasant snippets of conversation with my support are cropped.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League to a feeding Varus? (Who, for context, blatantly posted in chat, "That's it, no ganks, I'm trolling you now") A chat restriction. Now, I know it's quite likely this post will be ignored- no Rioter has ever earnestly responded to a blatant flaw in their system.

But -MAYBE-, removing the human, community-centric element of player discipline was the laziest, least effective move you ever made. I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined- I can only assume the 'intentional feeding' category is a placebo. More than chat, more than even AFK teammates, intentionally sabotaging or griefing your teammates ruins games- and the players that do this are unequivocally wanted OUT of the community, most of whom could care less about 'a little salt'. Racial slurs, demands for players to kill themselves, and similar harassment- certainly. Restrict it. Habitual rage-quitting? Definitely stop that, but for players who just can't connect- maybe use your built-in ping detection to determine if it's a connection error, as a from-level-1 AFK game is still somewhat winnable, as long as it doesn't give the enemy an advantage. This isn't something you can solve with an automated system, however- and they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

Here's where I have a problem: A real human being could look at my chat logs and note that I'm a heavy communicator. When something goes wrong, I'll explain what to my teammates. I'll instruct players on better build paths for a given game. I'll type out my intent in chat before I make a major play (such as an Azir siege, or in this game, a pre-game discussion with Thresh to work out CC-chaining tactics). As that type of player, I'm also going to let someone know if they're behaving in a stupid manner (e.g. repeatedly making the same mistake and/or refusing to learn or take advice/pings that can save them). As a player that relies on communication in my attempts to at least put my team in a carriable state for myself or another teammate who is ahead, if not set them on a path that will make them somewhat relevant? A chat restriction is a vastly unfair and disproportionate punishment. For malicious, outright toxic players, a chat restriction is just an invitation to display toxic in-game behavior while they can't use the chat- as mentioned previously, this isn't something a script can detect- and if one was made to do it, a lot of (admittedly very bad) legitimate players would be filtered out by the system.

In other words: Either bring back the tribunal or create a real 'elo hell'. A hell independent of actual rank, fueled by toxic players exposed exclusively to one another. A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored. At a certain threshold, you are silently, automatically moved to a 'prisoner's island' queue. An interactive system like this accomplishes two things- it makes the honor system actually relevant at the lower ranks, and allows PLAYERS, as opposed to an extensively flawed automatic system, to control who they see in their games. Continuous offenders who noone in the community wants to play with will be dropped from normal queues, while players with a net positive or neutral effect won't be punished for a bad game or the automatic discipline associated with the word 'report'. (It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.) This also eliminates the frustrations associated with upstanding players feeling their reports are ignored- if the person ruining the game for your team is free game with their reports being ignored, THEY will not feel empowered to elicit a reaction and then turn around to exploit trigger words on the automated discipline system. Likewise, positive players will have their positive behavior reinforced with the power to actually stop repeat trolls from being in their games.

Wasted breath, I know.

its not what you said, its the curse words. I used to get chat restricted ALL the time, and havnt changed what I say on a game to game basis except remove the curse words and do this:

instead of saying good job retard, way to gank go: A++ gank jungler

or A++ map awareness to the person feeding

after someone dies splitpushing/into the enemies base I say nice ward coverage (insert feeder here), next time don't forget to ward their jungle so you can see them coming OR try to listen to pings when your team pings danger 15+times

LostFr0st2/29/2016, 11:07:16 PM2 votes

I don't think I'd ever want to queue up in a system you describe at the bottom. O.O

A system where the voice is taken away from players with 'lesser' points seems sad and unfun.

I have a legit question to ask though: you mention that you're very vocal (which we can see) but I'm wondering if you're also listening to the other people's actions on your team.

When they do something you think is dumb do you think about why they did it?
(as in what they thought the play would look like?)

ReadyxPlayerxOne3/2/2016, 12:59:41 AM2 votes

Point One: Is completely False. Point two: Is irrelevant. Point Three: Is not an excuse or justification of your behavior. You did the crime, you pay the time.

What else don't you get? WE, AS A COMMUNITY, decided that we don't want your kind of bullshit in the game. It's not soulless riot and mechanical assumptions. It's based on years of collected data from players JUST LIKE YOU. Welcome to real life kid... it's gonna hit you like a sledgehammer to the face.

Linthe2/29/2016, 11:42:33 PM1 votes

Solid punishment. GG EZ

ReadyxPlayerxOne3/1/2016, 4:28:40 AM1 votes

People like you and posts like this are why RIOT has a policy of simply NEVER overturning permanent suspensions. You're such a brick that you don't understand how badly you messed up. YOU decided you were more important than someone else's enjoyment of an online game.... YOU decided that it meant you could use vulgar, degrading and simply unacceptable language and intonations and YOU decided the rules didn't apply to you and that you wouldn't be punished. WE banned you from our game on the account YOU did this on. And by "we" I mean the thousands of people that voted in the tribunal to rid the community of YOUR bullshit.

Go away. Please. Don't make another account. I hear Heroes of the Storm is a good game... go.. please... go act like a fucking scumbag in that game... cause I don't play it.