Harsh Criticism & MY GOD BRING BACK THE TRIBUNAL?

Arakk01··5 votes·1,805 views

Let me share the chat logs I was chat restricted for, people: Yeah, nope. Because you can't read further. It's pretty pathetic, because there was a lot more to read. Essentially, Riot takes all of the 'bad' things you said automatically, crops anything the system can identify as 'neutral' or 'pleasant', and presents them without context to explain WHY a player is talking in caps or using certain words (in this case, imitation. It's the sincerest form of hating someone's guts but trying to get a message across).

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely. But even without context, you can see a pretty clear picture here. Varus repeatedly bothers everyone on the team for ganks- I move to gank for him. He shoves his lane after I ask him in chat to bait his laner in, he dies, starts complaining again. Was I harsh in explaining that he needed to get it through his thick, mostly hollow skull that noone can gank with his lane shoved? Definitely. If you'll note, more pleasant snippets of conversation with my support are cropped.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League to a feeding Varus? (Who, for context, blatantly posted in chat, "That's it, no ganks, I'm trolling you now") A chat restriction. Now, I know it's quite likely this post will be ignored- no Rioter has ever earnestly responded to a blatant flaw in their system.

But -MAYBE-, removing the human, community-centric element of player discipline was the laziest, least effective move you ever made. I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined- I can only assume the 'intentional feeding' category is a placebo. More than chat, more than even AFK teammates, intentionally sabotaging or griefing your teammates ruins games- and the players that do this are unequivocally wanted OUT of the community, most of whom could care less about 'a little salt'. Racial slurs, demands for players to kill themselves, and similar harassment- certainly. Restrict it. Habitual rage-quitting? Definitely stop that, but for players who just can't connect- maybe use your built-in ping detection to determine if it's a connection error, as a from-level-1 AFK game is still somewhat winnable, as long as it doesn't give the enemy an advantage. This isn't something you can solve with an automated system, however- and they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

Here's where I have a problem: A real human being could look at my chat logs and note that I'm a heavy communicator. When something goes wrong, I'll explain what to my teammates. I'll instruct players on better build paths for a given game. I'll type out my intent in chat before I make a major play (such as an Azir siege, or in this game, a pre-game discussion with Thresh to work out CC-chaining tactics). As that type of player, I'm also going to let someone know if they're behaving in a stupid manner (e.g. repeatedly making the same mistake and/or refusing to learn or take advice/pings that can save them). As a player that relies on communication in my attempts to at least put my team in a carriable state for myself or another teammate who is ahead, if not set them on a path that will make them somewhat relevant? A chat restriction is a vastly unfair and disproportionate punishment. For malicious, outright toxic players, a chat restriction is just an invitation to display toxic in-game behavior while they can't use the chat- as mentioned previously, this isn't something a script can detect- and if one was made to do it, a lot of (admittedly very bad) legitimate players would be filtered out by the system.

In other words: Either bring back the tribunal or create a real 'elo hell'. A hell independent of actual rank, fueled by toxic players exposed exclusively to one another. A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored. At a certain threshold, you are silently, automatically moved to a 'prisoner's island' queue. An interactive system like this accomplishes two things- it makes the honor system actually relevant at the lower ranks, and allows PLAYERS, as opposed to an extensively flawed automatic system, to control who they see in their games. Continuous offenders who noone in the community wants to play with will be dropped from normal queues, while players with a net positive or neutral effect won't be punished for a bad game or the automatic discipline associated with the word 'report'. (It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.) This also eliminates the frustrations associated with upstanding players feeling their reports are ignored- if the person ruining the game for your team is free game with their reports being ignored, THEY will not feel empowered to elicit a reaction and then turn around to exploit trigger words on the automated discipline system. Likewise, positive players will have their positive behavior reinforced with the power to actually stop repeat trolls from being in their games.

Wasted breath, I know.

45 Comments

Dominick Destine5 votes

Let's see, maybe this person is not toxic and Riot has made a mistake.... recently they rescinded a ban which was a monumental occasion, someone was legitimately NOT guilty.... so who knows I have a higher hope that others will be the same and justice will ultimately be served.

That's retarded Reksai is just a retard. Fuck you Varus I CAME TO GANK FOR YOU BUT YOU HAVE YOUR LANE FUCKING SHOVED HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE WE ARE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR A GANK. DO IT, OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. You wasted my time and my ult trying to gank for you. WE WANT TO STOP YOUR FEEDING BUT YOU ARE PUSHED UP CONSTANTLY. This Varus DOESN'T FUCKING GET IT. Crying for ganks RekSai is bad Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there. He just needs to learn finer mechanics, like lane control. You said it in chat. Now we can report it.

Very toxic.

Justified punishment... sigh, I guess having faith in my fellow players will invariably lead to disappointment.

I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined

.

I get... a chat restriction

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ic97mPViHEG5O/giphy.gif

Arakk014 votes

If you want toxic, play a game in bronze or low silver. THAT is toxic. Letting someone know they are behaving like a medically certifiable retard (a term used to indicate a learning disability- appropriate) is not toxic. Some of us are sick and tired of players like this Varus (and probably like you) who get stuck in their own little world and throw an increasingly intense tantrum when it doesn't revolve around them.

Dominick Destine4 votes

{quoted}

Letting someone know they are behaving like a medically certifiable retard is not toxic.

That's a rather flimsy way of saying "I should get away with calling people retards over and over without consequence". Your argument is garbage on several levels as well;

Are you a medical doctor? No. Is League of Legends a medical facility for such diagnosis? No.

You're just talking nonsense to try to justify toxicity... and by the way, as I am fond of repeating; I lean way more towards libertarianism than feminism/leftism, so I would not punish you for talking trash in game, I would even agree with you... it's part of the game and I would allow social punishment to occur rather than authoritarian methods (I.e. people that are jerks are identified as jerks).

However I do not make the rules, Riot makes the rules. You are not special, you are not above the rules. They have dictated that acting the way you do (I.e. toxic) is against their community standards. Riot as you know, is very leftist/feminist leaning so that is the ruleset they are following. If you are in violation with the ruleset you will be punished.

You agree to this ruleset when you start the game. The summoner code is very clear.

Some of us are sick and tired of players like this Varus (and probably like you) who get stuck in their own little world and throw an increasingly intense tantrum when it doesn't revolve around them.

Your desperate personal attacks mean nothing to me.

Other people being toxic does not give you license to be toxic as well.

Penns1 votes

Out of curiosity, is surrending a 99% won game just to make one of your team mates feel bad "toxic"?

cc:

Arakk013 votes

Oh hey! I saw what those guys did to you. Nope, that's not really toxic. It was a normal, and you were a dick first. Denying you your vindication was a pretty sweet move.

Penns1 votes

"you"?

HexaDecimel1 votes

4 players agreeing to give a win to a team that was harassed all game is perfectly fine.

Penns1 votes

If you think so. Then why wouldnt it be perfectly fine to call that guy "idiot"? lol

HexaDecimel2 votes

I can't think of a single occurrence where a player was punished for simply calling another player an idiot. But the scenario that you presented doesn't really relate all that well to your original question.

Penns1 votes

Maybe someone did, maybe not. But my point is that pretty much everyone on this board will tell you that "if you call some guy that was flaming everyone all game an "idiot", youre not better and deserve a punishment as well".

HexaDecimel1 votes

I have never seen someone say that a player that at one time called another player an idiot should be punished. On the other hand, if he was doing it throughout the game then he is harassing and should be punished.

Penns1 votes

Well thats what everyones been saying all the time. Just because they say I should get cancer and die, I dont have the right to call them an idiot, right? kek

HexaDecimel1 votes

I am sure that people have tried to explain it to you many times.

If a player tells you to get cancer and die then mute him and report him. Chances are that if he is the type of player that says those things to other players then he will be banned fairly quickly. If you retaliate, harass, or request other players to report him then you too have violated the terms and can be punished as well.

Choosing not to fight with another player and simply reporting is your best defense. Let players get punished for their own actions. There is no need to involve yourself and it will never have a positive outcome. And don't harass other players or teammates even if they are doing really poorly.

If you can become a positive player that focuses on your actions and not others then you will have a more positive gaming experience.

Penns1 votes

I would accept that if people were consistent with their opinion.

Surrendering a 99% won game just to make the 5th player on your team feel bad is retaliation, so why is http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/zuPKBMWs-most-rewarding-game-ive-played-in-over-1000-games a thing?

You know, people say "it doesnt matter what anyone else did, it doesnt justify breaking the rules yourself" and the next moment they say "he was a dick, so why treat him nicely and follow the rules", which is pretty fking stupid lol

HexaDecimel2 votes

Did the team harass you? Did they verbally abuse you and call you names? If so then by all means report them. I guess my next question is did you harass your teammates or the opposing team? Because if you did then you would also be deserving of punishment.

There is nothing wrong with four players deciding to surrender a lost game even when one player does not want to give up, therefore I see nothing wrong with four players deciding to surrender as an apology to the other team that was verbally abused by a toxic teammate.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Out of curiosity, is surrending a 99% won game just to make one of your team mates feel bad "toxic"?

No.

A vote is a vote. If 4 people pass it and you do not, that sucks for you but it's how democracy works.

Penns1 votes

So 4 premades surrendering a game to troll is democracy works as well? Sux to be the solol player then I guess lol

Dominick Destine1 votes

That's still democracy.

You might not like it but it is working exactly as intended.

Penns1 votes

Nah its called trolling m8

Dominick Destine2 votes

Nope.

It's called democracy.

Penns1 votes

Yeah, abusing democracy to troll

Dominick Destine2 votes

Nope, not an abuse.

You can hate the players but you cannot hate democracy because it is doing what it is supposed to do.

Penns1 votes

Its not an abuse if the game is actually lost and 4 premades decide to surrender. But if the score is like 20/6 in their favor and they surrender just to piss off the fith guy, that is by definition an abuse.

HexaDecimel1 votes

Solo play is fine, but it there is one player causing a negative experience for everyone else then ya sucks to be him.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

Good lord do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Twiggles4 votes

Reksai is just a retard.

This.

Fuck you Varus

Is.

HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE

NOT.

Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there.

Constructive.

BG

Criticism.

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely.

Context is irrelevant. You are responsible for your own reprehensible behavior.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League IN THE DOUCHIEST AND LEAST HELPFUL WAY POSSIBLE to a feeding Varus?

I fixed that line for you for you since you left out the detail that actually got you punished.

they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

This is just blatantly false. One of the differences here is that intentional feeders don't come to the boards to whine about their punishments. This is because they don't have the same twisted support network that verbal abusers seem to have.

A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored.

Say hello to toxic players honor farming. This is a patently terrible idea.

It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.

No power has been taken away from legitimate players. Reports are counted on a 'per game' basis. Not straight up report volume. One report in a single game is worth just as much as nine. Threatening/begging for reports is a punishable form of harassment since all it does is put the threatened party even more on tilt and make a bad situation even worse. The current report system is designed this way to prevent premades from ganging up on solo queue players. Your one report is enough to flag the match and account. You don't need more reports, and you don't need to call attention to the fact that you are reporting. It. Does. Not. Help.

Honestly, you were chat restricted. It isn't nearly as big of a deal as you seem to think. Just try not to be such an asshole in the chat. You don't need to tell people that they are retarded. If they are doing poorly, chances are that they already know. Insulting them over it won't remedy the situation. It'll only put them on tilt.

Arakk011 votes

You're right! And you prove my point, EXACTLY, on how removing context and cropping demonizes the punished player. If you had full logs, you could note a few things: Every instance of caps was in reply to a capslocked message from Varus, for one. Generally bile-filled. Rek'Sai did not chat at all. They were not actually involved in the game to any viable degree. I was perfectly civil to anyone not being A RAGING DOUCHEBAG WITH THEIR CAPSLOCK STUCK!1!!1 Several of my statements, especially the last ones, were hilarious in context.

And of course, most importantly, CHAT RESTRICTION doesn't punish toxic players. It slows their bile-spewing, but honestly- you get messages about as fast as you can die in lane, the perfect interval if you want to rage. Not so great for anything else, especially not partial messages like any player not more focused on chatting than playing might use to convey important information while moving place to place, instead of pausing in a dubiously safe spot and wasting valuable time on a long message. It's a system that legitimately feels like it's made to punish people having a bad day, rather than stop a festering problem with the community. It's the same as LeaverBuster- the surest way to be punished by the system is to have 3 power outages in one day- and even after that punishment, your account stays flagged for about half a year! I'm still getting messages that my LeaverBuster standing has improved, despite not leaving a single game since. Now I'm stuck on eggshells of a flawed system again, because every time I'm reported for ANY feedback, constructive or not, I'll be restricted again.

The power -is- in the hands of toxic players, and players who just won't learn- and it's worthless to try fighting back. Why don't you share your godlike patience, because the rest of us get frustrated by that every few days- especially when there's guaranteed to be one 'game ruiner' on one team or the other- EVERY GAME.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

You're right! And you prove my point, EXACTLY, on how removing context and cropping demonizes the punished player. If you had full logs, you could note a few things: Every instance of caps was in reply to a capslocked message from Varus, for one. Generally bile-filled. Rek'Sai did not chat at all. They were not actually involved in the game to any viable degree. I was perfectly civil to anyone not being A RAGING DOUCHEBAG WITH THEIR CAPSLOCK STUCK!1!!1 Several of my statements, especially the last ones, were hilarious in context.

And of course, most importantly, CHAT RESTRICTION doesn't punish toxic players. It slows their bile-spewing, but honestly- you get messages about as fast as you can die in lane, the perfect interval if you want to rage. Not so great for anything else, especially not partial messages like any player not more focused on chatting than playing might use to convey important information while moving place to place, instead of pausing in a dubiously safe spot and wasting valuable time on a long message. It's a system that legitimately feels like it's made to punish people having a bad day, rather than stop a festering problem with the community. It's the same as LeaverBuster- the surest way to be punished by the system is to have 3 power outages in one day- and even after that punishment, your account stays flagged for about half a year! I'm still getting messages that my LeaverBuster standing has improved, despite not leaving a single game since. Now I'm stuck on eggshells of a flawed system again, because every time I'm reported for ANY feedback, constructive or not, I'll be restricted again.

The power -is- in the hands of toxic players, and players who just won't learn- and it's worthless to try fighting back. Why don't you share your godlike patience, because the rest of us get frustrated by that every few days- especially when there's guaranteed to be one 'game ruiner' on one team or the other- EVERY GAME.

No... just no. He doesn't prove your point. If you knew how to properly assess a situation and debate someone via normal rules of logic I'd listen to you... but you don't. It's obvious. Go take a class, join a debate team even! Until then... please stop.

Twiggles2 votes

You're right! And you prove my point, EXACTLY, on how removing context and cropping demonizes the punished player. If you had full logs, you could note a few things:

Even with context, your comments would STILL be unacceptable. So what if theirs were too? Report them yourself if it's that bad.

Every instance of caps was in reply to a capslocked message from Varus, for one. Generally bile-filled.

Completely irrelevant. You chose to respond in such a way. You aren't obligated to respond AT ALL. Fighting fire with fire only burns down the forest faster.

Rek'Sai did not chat at all. They were not actually involved in the game to any viable degree. I was perfectly civil to anyone not being A RAGING DOUCHEBAG WITH THEIR CAPSLOCK STUCK!1!!1

If you'd have been perfectly civil to EVERYONE (or at least muted/ignored the other rager) then you wouldn't be being punished right now.

Several of my statements, especially the last ones, were hilarious in context.

Context. Irrelevant. I've told you this already. Your behavior is your own choice. Take responsibility for your words and actions instead of trying to pin it on someone else.

And of course, most importantly, CHAT RESTRICTION doesn't punish toxic players.

I don't know about that. It seems to have rustled your jimmies pretty hard.

It's a system that legitimately feels like it's made to punish people having a bad day, rather than stop a festering problem with the community.

It's a system that punishes assholes for being assholes. Bad day or not, being an asshole is unacceptable.

It's the same as LeaverBuster- the surest way to be punished by the system is to have 3 power outages in one day- and even after that punishment, your account stays flagged for about half a year!

If you had three power outages in one day, why were you playing League during each of them? I'd have stopped after the first one and waited until I was sure the problem causing the outages was dealt with. Either way, that absence ruins the game for 9 other people each time. That's 27 people pissed off by your account in a short period of time. You are given a chance or two in case unexpected circumstances happen, but after that it's a rightful leaverbuster punishment.

I'm still getting messages that my LeaverBuster standing has improved, despite not leaving a single game since.

But... Isn't that a good thing?

because every time I'm reported for ANY feedback, constructive or not, I'll be restricted again.

False. If you actually didn't go off the handle in chat, than the reports will be thrown out. Seriously, just don't be an asshole, even if someone else is being an asshole to you. Just mute and potentially report them instead of putting your own account at risk.

The power -is- in the hands of toxic players, and players who just won't learn- and it's worthless to try fighting back.

Again, false. Your teammate was being toxic, and so were you. Throwing more garbage into the mix just makes for a smellier landfill. Mute, report, move on with your life.

Why don't you share your godlike patience, because the rest of us get frustrated by that every few days-

You misunderstand me. I don't have godlike patience. I get so pissed off at this game that I turn to Dark Souls to relieve stress after particularly bad matches. The difference between you and me is that I have enough self control to not lash out in the in-game chat window. My account has never been punished because Riot can't punish me for what I shout out loud. I barely type in game, and when I do it is either an obvious joke (usually at the beginning of the game like "Report Kalista for teamkill" when she uses her black spear or some sort of roleplay depending on my champion and other champs) or ACTUAL constructive criticism.

Example:

Me: Hey, play safe and farm under tower for a bit. I'll gank when they push in. Asshole: STFU I KNOW WHAT TO FUCKING DO! Me: mutes Asshole WITHOUT GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO TELL HIM

Just like that, I get to try to help, and then I drop the subject when it is clear that there is no helping them. As an added bonus, my account goes unmolested.

especially when there's guaranteed to be one 'game ruiner' on one team or the other- EVERY GAME.

Now this is simply false. Unless you have an EXTREMELY broad definition of 'game ruiner'.

Ending note: The Summoner's Code can be distilled down to two cardinal rules. 1: Don't cheat. 2: Don't be an asshole. I assume you have no issues with rule 1, so now you just need to work on rule 2. If you can manage that, your account will never be punished again (barring leaverbuster, but afk kind of falls under rule 2. If your power goes out, just wait until you're absolutely sure it won't happen again.).

Lime Josh3 votes

{quoted}

Let me share the chat logs I was chat restricted for, people: Ypi You're gonna have a baaaaad time.. MF. Yes! <3 Hold under tower WHY DOES SHE DO SO MUCH DAMAGE FUCKIGN That's retarded Riot must have accidentally buffed her. OH MY GOD REKSAI I will gank for you Reksai is just a retard. Bait Fuck you Varus I CAME TO GANK FOR YOU BUT YOU HAVE YOUR LANE FUCKING SHOVED Oh fuck me .... Varus The problem is not your jungler It's you It's EVERY TIME because you shove your lane ... HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE Look where your wave is right now. Why is Lux going to push up where Reksai can gank her VARUS WE ARE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR A GANK. DO IT, OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. You wasted my time and my ult trying to gank for you. ... DUDE FREEZE YOUR WAVE AND WE CAN MOVE UP TO YOU. WE WANT TO STOP YOUR FEEDING BUT YOU ARE PUSHED UP CONSTANTLY. This Varus DOESN'T FUCKING GET IT. Crying for ganks You said it in chat. Now we can report it. :) Nah, we were winning bot. That fucking lifesteal. To be fair, we lost our tower because I roamed to help Varus and he shoved when I asked him to let her push. Left me sitting in his bush half a minute. Not gonna FF. RekSai is bad But your whining has put her on tilt. Rofl, you, me, and GP Thresh. Varus is a little shithead but at least he doesn't suck balls. Have to agree there. He just needs to learn finer mechanics, like lane control. Tbh, Thresh is good. BG I'll vote trump first. :/

If you notice, it essentially tries to demonize the receiving player by removing context completely. But even without context, you can see a pretty clear picture here. Varus repeatedly bothers everyone on the team for ganks- I move to gank for him. He shoves his lane after I ask him in chat to bait his laner in, he dies, starts complaining again. Was I harsh in explaining that he needed to get it through his thick, mostly hollow skull that noone can gank with his lane shoved? Definitely. If you'll note, more pleasant snippets of conversation with my support are cropped.

And what do I get for (repeatedly) explaining a basic mechanic of League to a feeding Varus? (Who, for context, blatantly posted in chat, "That's it, no ganks, I'm trolling you now") A chat restriction. Now, I know it's quite likely this post will be ignored- no Rioter has ever earnestly responded to a blatant flaw in their system.

But -MAYBE-, removing the human, community-centric element of player discipline was the laziest, least effective move you ever made. I have never ONCE seen any evidence of toxic in-game behavior being disciplined- I can only assume the 'intentional feeding' category is a placebo. More than chat, more than even AFK teammates, intentionally sabotaging or griefing your teammates ruins games- and the players that do this are unequivocally wanted OUT of the community, most of whom could care less about 'a little salt'. Racial slurs, demands for players to kill themselves, and similar harassment- certainly. Restrict it. Habitual rage-quitting? Definitely stop that, but for players who just can't connect- maybe use your built-in ping detection to determine if it's a connection error, as a from-level-1 AFK game is still somewhat winnable, as long as it doesn't give the enemy an advantage. This isn't something you can solve with an automated system, however- and they don't punish the people who, however occasionally, intentionally and maliciously ruin games for other players and get away with it because your system is only written to punish AFK and chat-using players.

Here's where I have a problem: A real human being could look at my chat logs and note that I'm a heavy communicator. When something goes wrong, I'll explain what to my teammates. I'll instruct players on better build paths for a given game. I'll type out my intent in chat before I make a major play (such as an Azir siege, or in this game, a pre-game discussion with Thresh to work out CC-chaining tactics). As that type of player, I'm also going to let someone know if they're behaving in a stupid manner (e.g. repeatedly making the same mistake and/or refusing to learn or take advice/pings that can save them). As a player that relies on communication in my attempts to at least put my team in a carriable state for myself or another teammate who is ahead, if not set them on a path that will make them somewhat relevant? A chat restriction is a vastly unfair and disproportionate punishment. For malicious, outright toxic players, a chat restriction is just an invitation to display toxic in-game behavior while they can't use the chat- as mentioned previously, this isn't something a script can detect- and if one was made to do it, a lot of (admittedly very bad) legitimate players would be filtered out by the system.

In other words: Either bring back the tribunal or create a real 'elo hell'. A hell independent of actual rank, fueled by toxic players exposed exclusively to one another. A prisoner's island is not a bad thing- tie it into the honor system, if you really want to take control of player behavior away from the community. Reports, or 'dishonors' by a player with a HIGHER 'honor score' will lower yours, while all honor will raise it. To prevent the 'prisoners' from perpetually keeping themselves and legitimate players down-scored, reports from a significantly lower source could be ignored. At a certain threshold, you are silently, automatically moved to a 'prisoner's island' queue. An interactive system like this accomplishes two things- it makes the honor system actually relevant at the lower ranks, and allows PLAYERS, as opposed to an extensively flawed automatic system, to control who they see in their games. Continuous offenders who noone in the community wants to play with will be dropped from normal queues, while players with a net positive or neutral effect won't be punished for a bad game or the automatic discipline associated with the word 'report'. (It's a real thing, check this board. You threaten to report that feeder, you can be met with something as harsh as a ban! Thanks Riot, for taking power away from the legitimate players of your community and adding more frustration to the mix.) This also eliminates the frustrations associated with upstanding players feeling their reports are ignored- if the person ruining the game for your team is free game with their reports being ignored, THEY will not feel empowered to elicit a reaction and then turn around to exploit trigger words on the automated discipline system. Likewise, positive players will have their positive behavior reinforced with the power to actually stop repeat trolls from being in their games.

Wasted breath, I know.

its not what you said, its the curse words. I used to get chat restricted ALL the time, and havnt changed what I say on a game to game basis except remove the curse words and do this:

instead of saying good job retard, way to gank go: A++ gank jungler

or A++ map awareness to the person feeding

after someone dies splitpushing/into the enemies base I say nice ward coverage (insert feeder here), next time don't forget to ward their jungle so you can see them coming OR try to listen to pings when your team pings danger 15+times

Arakk011 votes

Here's the problem I have- the summoner's code I agreed to doesn't state 'curse words' are off-limits. There's a chat filter for people who can't handle them, one I don't circumvent unlike certain other players (who aren't caught, because the system can't detect misspelled filtered words! Hah. Good one Riot)

In fact, according to this- I obeyed the summoner's code, by acknowledging Varus needed a gank. Varus disobeyed section three, by ignoring multiple indications that he needed to stop pushing his lane without even acknowledging. From the code:

When you choose to participate in a discussion with the rest of the playerbase, always try to be receptive to another player's point of view. If you keep an open mind, you'd be surprised what valuable information you can glean from your fellow players.

It would be great to see red in one of these threads, but it's pretty clear they know these disgusting measures are as indefensible as they are ineffective at quelling the worst players in the community.

elduris6 votes

Here's the problem I have- the summoner's code I agreed to doesn't state 'curse words' are off-limits.

You'd be surprised to learn that this is not the case. If you read the Summoner's Code, especially point #7, you'd know that the entire article promotes the "don't be a jerk" mindset. Communication is good, yelling at your teammates under the guise of communication is not.

Instead of focusing on what other people are doing wrong, focus on how you can do right. Doesn't matter to me or Riot if Varus was indignant all game, I'm sure if they are a jerk they will get a similar punishment. And despite what the person above you said, I would advise against using sarcasm to "retaliate" in game.

Whatever your opinions are on community behavior, I sure hope they don't include

Reksai is just a retard. HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LEARN, ASSHOLE

as acceptable speech.

Arakk011 votes

They definitely do. Again- context is important, as much as your soulless, flawed system likes to think otherwise. It cropped every bit of civil conversation. Did I let a toxic player piss me off? Yeah, sure. I'm not going to worship the ground he walks on, and you have a serious mental condition if you live in a world where that happens. You don't get to be a massive dick to people and then hide behind a flawed report system. Allcaps were used to respond to allcaps, since that seemed to be the only method of speech for Varus. Every other member of the team was addressed civilly, and I was quite plain in calling Rek'Sai a retard- as mentioned in a previous comment, it's pathetic to get your panties in a knot over it when it's used appropriately- to refer to someone incapable of learning at the most basic level. That's accurate use, and it was in the form of discouraging other teammates from following that player whatsoever. As for my response to Varus:

And remember, while nobody likes being insulted, it pays to take a moment to consider the circumstances. Remember that this is a competitive game, and, more often than not, the other player is just venting their frustration. Try not to take it personally. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone rages sometimes. At some point you may find yourself in the other person's shoes.

I'm glad you brought up point number seven. You just made the entire chat restriction business look incredibly hypocritical! "Everyone rages sometimes." But we'll randomly restrict your ability to win games for it! If a human being looked at full logs, they'd find the enemy team, as well as the Varus in question, being incredibly caustic. So, I'm punished for having a breaking point that happens to be right about when someone does EXACTLY the opposite of what I ask of them while I'm trying to help them, while spewing hideous amounts of bile.

The problem here is unlike the Varus, who reported every member of the team I'm sure, I let it be as a bad game and went to try climbing away from the worst of the barrel-scum. Only to be slapped next game after a brief strategy chat in champ select, finding myself unable to accurately convey.. Anything. If I wanted to talk while chat restricted, I could periodically spew bile- you know, that thing you're trying to prevent? You aren't given enough messages to use on the fly in succession- spreading large messages over 3-4 posts is far less dangerous than typing an entire plan up at once, so in action, chat restrictions only punish players who otherwise use chat as intended.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

They definitely do. Again- context is important, as much as your soulless, flawed system likes to think otherwise. It cropped every bit of civil conversation. Did I let a toxic player piss me off? Yeah, sure. I'm not going to worship the ground he walks on, and you have a serious mental condition if you live in a world where that happens. You don't get to be a massive dick to people and then hide behind a flawed report system. Allcaps were used to respond to allcaps, since that seemed to be the only method of speech for Varus. Every other member of the team was addressed civilly, and I was quite plain in calling Rek'Sai a retard- as mentioned in a previous comment, it's pathetic to get your panties in a knot over it when it's used appropriately- to refer to someone incapable of learning at the most basic level. That's accurate use, and it was in the form of discouraging other teammates from following that player whatsoever. As for my response to Varus:

And remember, while nobody likes being insulted, it pays to take a moment to consider the circumstances. Remember that this is a competitive game, and, more often than not, the other player is just venting their frustration. Try not to take it personally. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone rages sometimes. At some point you may find yourself in the other person's shoes.

I'm glad you brought up point number seven. You just made the entire chat restriction business look incredibly hypocritical! "Everyone rages sometimes." But we'll randomly restrict your ability to win games for it! If a human being looked at full logs, they'd find the enemy team, as well as the Varus in question, being incredibly caustic. So, I'm punished for having a breaking point that happens to be right about when someone does EXACTLY the opposite of what I ask of them while I'm trying to help them, while spewing hideous amounts of bile.

The problem here is unlike the Varus, who reported every member of the team I'm sure, I let it be as a bad game and went to try climbing away from the worst of the barrel-scum. Only to be slapped next game after a brief strategy chat in champ select, finding myself unable to accurately convey.. Anything. If I wanted to talk while chat restricted, I could periodically spew bile- you know, that thing you're trying to prevent? You aren't given enough messages to use on the fly in succession- spreading large messages over 3-4 posts is far less dangerous than typing an entire plan up at once, so in action, chat restrictions only punish players who otherwise use chat as intended.

Wait wait... soulless.. you're arguing that a system based on the input of tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands or millions) of players is without the human element and disregards basic humanity because......... oh wait you're completely delusional. Done.

Arakk011 votes

Point One: The system is soulless, it does not take any human interaction once a report is sent. One report is enough to flag your account, as our arbiter so kindly informed us. The rest of the system is automated; the tribunal was thrown out for a version of the chat filter that applies punishments, instead.

Point Two: You have been more toxic than me or even the Varus in that particular game. Your tone and the fact that you decided to reply to my original post PLUS multiple replies to comments I've placed in this thread, each reply tailored to make me feel inferior and/or unwelcome? That's harassment, bud. Textbook harassment. Plus, it's clear you didn't really read or comprehend what you're so caustically replying to.

Point Three: Yeah, I was totally an asshole on a bad day, to a couple of awful people. That didn't get me a permanent suspension, it got me chat restricted (evidence you didn't read the OP). The entire source of my irritation- hence, this post- was that I am normally far nicer and rely on helping floundering fellow players to make games easier to win. The system is utterly ineffective if I want to spew pointless, disjointed bile- I get enough messages to do that- but I can't coordinate or talk back and forth with other players. That's my gripe. I would literally rather short term suspensions be a more common occurrence- a per-game chat restriction is frustrating in the extreme, where at least a forced two-day break from league/ranked would let me get my shit together.

LostFr0st2 votes

I don't think I'd ever want to queue up in a system you describe at the bottom. O.O

A system where the voice is taken away from players with 'lesser' points seems sad and unfun.

I have a legit question to ask though: you mention that you're very vocal (which we can see) but I'm wondering if you're also listening to the other people's actions on your team.

When they do something you think is dumb do you think about why they did it?
(as in what they thought the play would look like?)

Arakk011 votes

The problem is, with players like Varus- they don't think they're making a play.

This particular game, cropped from the punishment log, almost EVERY member of the team told Varus he needed to stop pushing up. Varus felt that a gank would be the only way his lane could come back- the very, very common tactic of avoiding learning from your mistakes by displacing blame. Varus had mechanical skill against champions that didn't extend into his laning tactics- and felt that excused him from listening to other players, even as he demanded and threatened.

And as for the system described at the bottom- it punishes the worst tier of trolls, the ones who bait out the 'please report this player' and report it, with repeated success. They have shown up in these comments before- bragging about it. Living proof the game cannot punish in-game behaviors outside of chat and AFK infractions. If these players lost their power to report back, Riot's lazy devs wouldn't have to remove 'report' from their blacklist- reports about people saying 'report' wouldn't exist, as they're mostly a tool for trolls at this point. Moreover, there would be a TANGIBLE reward for players who the COMMUNITY considers acceptable.

LostFr0st1 votes

But did you even try to tell Varus that you plan to build up the strength of the other lanes and then return to mid later? Even if you never end up mid for the rest of the game that'll bandaid most players into quieting down for a bit.

Just say something along the lines of you're not powerful enough to kill lux right now (You, not Varus) even if it isn't completely the case.
Or try putting a pink near his lane to try and be there for a countergank when the enemy jungler goes for him (you make him out as a free kill, did you not take advantage of that and use him as bait indirectly to turn the tides?)

Arakk011 votes

Varus kept pushing under and aggroing his laner's tower. There was no space for a gank, at any point, ever. He was actively feeding because he had no concept of wave control or lane freezing. I'm going to remove the logs from the OP, they do exactly as Riot intended.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Varus kept pushing under and aggroing his laner's tower. There was no space for a gank, at any point, ever. He was actively feeding because he had no concept of wave control or lane freezing. I'm going to remove the logs from the OP, they do exactly as Riot intended.

No one cares. Stop, please.

ReadyxPlayerxOne2 votes

Point One: Is completely False. Point two: Is irrelevant. Point Three: Is not an excuse or justification of your behavior. You did the crime, you pay the time.

What else don't you get? WE, AS A COMMUNITY, decided that we don't want your kind of bullshit in the game. It's not soulless riot and mechanical assumptions. It's based on years of collected data from players JUST LIKE YOU. Welcome to real life kid... it's gonna hit you like a sledgehammer to the face.

Arakk011 votes

Again: Point one.

It is not false, try logging into the tribunal. Here it is! Or here it should be, at least.

tribunal.na.leagueoflegends.com

If you google it, you find http://tribunal.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/maintenance.html

The Tribunal does not exist anymore. "The Tribunal" reference in the email received with a punishment refers to the automated system that identifies hostile speech when an account has been flagged by the report system. As my case proved, it can be triggered in as little as one day.

As for Point Two, it's totally relevant- you don't get to be preachy when you're arguably worse than the person you're 'preaching' to. By YOUR OWN ARGUMENT, you deserve an equal or greater punishment.

Point three: The entire point here is that it's ineffective in fighting RAGE (the majority of what the punishment is handed out for) because it simply breeds frustration through restriction. I said it flat out: I would rather be banned for two days, even though I could play through the chat restrictions in one. It's more frustrating than not being able to play at all.

And as for becoming involved in real life and taking a sledgehammer to the face.. I'll take that as a threat. Because I'm sensitive.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

{quoted}

Again: Point one.

It is not false, try logging into the tribunal. Here it is! Or here it should be, at least.

tribunal.na.leagueoflegends.com

If you google it, you find http://tribunal.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/maintenance.html

The Tribunal does not exist anymore. "The Tribunal" reference in the email received with a punishment refers to the automated system that identifies hostile speech when an account has been flagged by the report system. As my case proved, it can be triggered in as little as one day.

As for Point Two, it's totally relevant- you don't get to be preachy when you're arguably worse than the person you're 'preaching' to. By YOUR OWN ARGUMENT, you deserve an equal or greater punishment.

Point three: The entire point here is that it's ineffective in fighting RAGE (the majority of what the punishment is handed out for) because it simply breeds frustration through restriction. I said it flat out: I would rather be banned for two days, even though I could play through the chat restrictions in one. It's more frustrating than not being able to play at all.

And as for becoming involved in real life and taking a sledgehammer to the face.. I'll take that as a threat. Because I'm sensitive.

You make amazingly coherent points based in fact.

Let me clap for you...

[zombie-brand-clap]

You're wrong. Just admit it to yourself. Let it go... listen to the frozen song a bit. Just trust me. For 5 minutes sit there and think about "omg... could he be right? Maybe, just maybe, I'm wrong here and am twisting words.. doing complete fucking backflips just to maintain my point WAAAAAY after I know it's wrong but convinced myself it's right. " because the answer might just surprise you.

Want to know why I KNOW that you are wrong? Want to know WHY I think your points are absurd and have no reality at all?

"And as for becoming involved in real life and taking a sledgehammer to the face.. I'll take that as a threat. Because I'm sensitive."

Seriously? Wait wait... Seriously???

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

SERIOUSLY????

You lose kid. Done arguing with a brick. Hope you figure it out one day.

drops the mic

Linthe1 votes

Solid punishment. GG EZ

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

People like you and posts like this are why RIOT has a policy of simply NEVER overturning permanent suspensions. You're such a brick that you don't understand how badly you messed up. YOU decided you were more important than someone else's enjoyment of an online game.... YOU decided that it meant you could use vulgar, degrading and simply unacceptable language and intonations and YOU decided the rules didn't apply to you and that you wouldn't be punished. WE banned you from our game on the account YOU did this on. And by "we" I mean the thousands of people that voted in the tribunal to rid the community of YOUR bullshit.

Go away. Please. Don't make another account. I hear Heroes of the Storm is a good game... go.. please... go act like a fucking scumbag in that game... cause I don't play it.

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