Interesting Trend

FHMarshy·Apr 6, 2015·45 votes·3,027 views

Following Shaco being played in EU LCS yesterday, I've already seen 3 threads discussing how Shaco is OP and needs nerf.

Are you guys serious ?? lmfao

I started learning and maining Shaco start the end of season 3 solely because EVERYONE was saying how SHIT Shaco was and I wanted to play Shaco so that winning makes it a lot more satisfying.

Not a single change had been made to Shaco since I started playing him, and all it took for some people to start whining about him was just one single game played at a professional scene.

Sad Community

53 Comments

TsundayApr 6, 201515 votes

lol Shaco 100% winrate in LCS OP OP OP RITO PLZ NERF

Guys Shaco is all early game and if he doesn't snowball he's not really scary late game. Like seriously. He's not hard to ward against because you know where he thinks the ward is going to be (in the bush) so you know where to put the ward (right before the bush where he would have to go invisible at to 'avoid' the ward), pink wards exist, he's super squishy, and he doesn't do a lot of damage if you don't stand in his boxes with your back towards him.

He's a nice jungler if you have a team that you can work with early, but it's not like he's OP.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 6, 20156 votes

Playing Shaco is basically "ok I won the lanes and we're ahead now, better close this out quickly... oh look the team is dicking around because they think we've won... now their Swain has 8 kills... team still dicking around... ok I've fallen off now... nexus is dead".

This is why I've never tried to take earlygame junglers into soloq. It's not that much harder to win the jungle with the ones that don't fall off.

TsundayApr 7, 20151 votes

I main support so I'm not really the most tower wrecking of champions but I absolutely adore duo partners who focus objectives and want to end games before the 30 minute mark when I duo with an ADC I ward up and try to get us to take the inner turret instead of going straight to midlane. Find duos that are decent players at your elo and will focus towers with you. If 2 of you are doing it you can convince your team to follow

S H A Y C 0Apr 6, 20157 votes

lol! I noticed the trend a while back.

Sion rework.

Pro streamer: "Yeah, he seems ok but in my opinion hes really not that good"

Buddy: "IDGAFK! about Sion, he was better before and i dont know why anybody plays him

Dyrus and everybody in lcs takes him top lane

"OMG Sion is too op! what a lane bully, NERF RITO PLZ!"

Sion gets nerfed twice...because he does too much damage for a champion that no one ever builds any damage on...the irony.

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20152 votes

and then there are those of us who are just like "dang, this new champ is gonna be broken as heck" Community: "wow, such a trash champ, no potential!" 3 months later: "OMG NERF SION TOO OP" sigh.

TeemoJenkinsApr 6, 20154 votes

What's sad, the three threads within the last three days all have something in common: 0 Shaco games. "NERF CHAMP CUZ REASONS".

iibramApr 7, 20154 votes

Shaco as a champion is not OP. It was the way that UOL was able to punish GMB's faulty engages that allowed UOL to trade safely versus GMB while Shaco was able to push towers. IIRC the announcer specifically said Shaco became a strong factor in the game because he took a long amount of time farming the lanes and pushing towers. The extra gold allowed him to build more items at a faster rate. Also, if GMB were able to take care of Shaco and find him in his jungle early on, especially during their invade, Shaco would of been behind the enemy jungler. Going back to my original point, Diamond's error of leaving top lane at the beginning of the game left Cabochard wide open for a gank, allowing Vizi to take a strong hold of top lane so Shaco can farm bottom lane mid-late game.

Drunk RummateApr 6, 20153 votes

Shaco is infuriating to play against because his early ganks, potential for cheese, and ability to invade are so high.

I would say most of the people saying he's OP probably got cheesed and lost because Shaco was 4-0 in 8 minutes. He's really good for getting your lanes ahead but he falls off harder than most assassins when the teamfighting starts...

I always laugh when I'm against a shaco because I know all I have to do is passively farm my lane and in 25 minutes we can win the 4v5.

FHMarshyApr 6, 20154 votes

Im guessing we've never crossed path :P

Shaco has amazing split push ability late game, rather strong dueler thanks to his clone. With good box placements, it's rather simple for him to escape too.

If Shaco gets fed, he can easily instagib squishy carries before team fight even happens.

Passively farm your lane could definitely stop a shaco from snowballing, but that is only if your team do the same and/or give up dragons :)

Drunk RummateApr 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Im guessing we've never crossed path :P

Shaco has amazing split push ability late game, rather strong dueler thanks to his clone. With good box placements, it's rather simple for him to escape too.

If Shaco gets fed, he can easily instagib squishy carries before team fight even happens.

Passively farm your lane could definitely stop a shaco from snowballing, but that is only if your team do the same and/or give up dragons :)

Yeah, he's definitely scary when he's ahead as most assassins are; I'll give you that. I've seen enough 10+ kill shacos solo carry the game in my day lol! I guess most of my comfort comes from when I play mid, because I know that's the most likely lane for shaco to camp and I know I won't be the one feeding him. I get a little more worried when I don't get mid because a lot of people don't seem to adjust their playstyle based on junglers for whatever reason... (stupidity?)

I've never really struggled too much with a split pushing shaco unless he's several kills up from laning phase. Seems pretty easy to shut down if you just upgrade your sweeper trinket. Doesn't he have the lowest base HP in the game? Or is that Sona? I know it's way down there though.

FHMarshyApr 6, 20152 votes

All one ever need to gut a shaco is to put deep wards.....gg shaco

Drunk RummateApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All one ever need to gut a shaco is to put deep wards.....gg shaco

Not enough junglers try to ward enemy raptors. 100% best ward ever. And it's easy to place too! Just wait for your mid to push up a bit.

DrathTurtle314Apr 7, 20151 votes

I hate when people ward my raptors. Smite raptors = lose buff to raptor ward, don't smite raptors = don't get raptor buff...

I don't play shaco, but this is true of any jungler so...

CubedJusticeApr 6, 20151 votes

When you smite gromp, then go to clear blue, shaco will always be there, ready to smite it for you. item 3070

RaptameiApr 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I started learning and maining Shaco start the end of season 3 solely because EVERYONE was saying how SHIT Shaco was and I wanted to play Shaco so that winning makes it a lot more satisfying.

Yeah yeah you just picked him because he's toxic anti-fun and OP. Enjoy your nerf.

My ex-mains, all 10 of them.

JLawwApr 7, 20153 votes

Shaco basically only dominates the early game, and that's because of his ability to snowball lanes early or destroying the enemy jungler. He falls of mid game, and falls off harder in late game due to poor team fighting presence. He is by no means OP. This is just one of countless examples of clueless bandwagoners misjudging a champion's full capabilities because "omG I SAWS ON LCS, CONFIRMED 5EVER"

MigrañaboyApr 6, 20152 votes

Such are the ways of the sheeple.

Also, it was stated that they were planning a rework, seems he-s getting special abilities with his clone or something like that.

Rinky DinkyApr 7, 20152 votes

No, rework was confirmed to not even be in consideration.

FreljordanApr 7, 20151 votes

This is correct, here's a post confirming it, Rito said they are "shelving" it

CupkekApr 6, 20152 votes

I love how right as soon as people see him played once in LCS, EVERY bronzelord decides they just HAVE TO play him.

Since UoL used him, out of 5 games, 3 of them have had a Shaco in it. FML, let me play my champion in peace!

Spacesuit SpiffApr 6, 20152 votes

Well to be fair, things can become OP because of a change to something else. Case in point: Zed. But yeah, this is ridiculous. I look forward to seeing Shacos that don't even know how to tank mobs with their boxes.

Worst Mid EverApr 7, 20152 votes

he isn't OP, just a cheesy cancer champion most people including me don't want to be viable at any level of play, let alone professional

TransgressorApr 7, 20151 votes

pretty much this

AerothalApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Following Shaco being played in EU LCS yesterday, I've already seen 3 threads discussing how Shaco is OP and needs nerf.

Are you guys serious ?? lmfao

I started learning and maining Shaco start the end of season 3 solely because EVERYONE was saying how SHIT Shaco was and I wanted to play Shaco so that winning makes it a lot more satisfying.

Not a single change had been made to Shaco since I started playing him, and all it took for some people to start whining about him was just one single game played at a professional scene.

Sad Community

well, champion balance is a delicate thing. you introduce or change one item and all of the sudden, a champ that hasnt seen any play for ages gets superstrong. of course only people playing that champ notice. Pro's notice fast because they analyze that kinda stuff a lot or pay analysts to do so! The fact that shaco wasnt changed for a long time has nothing at all to do how bad or well he does right now. I mean look at sej. One patch and she has the highest winrate and banrate. before the patch she was deemed trash-tier.
I do not agree with the whining about certain champs which came up in LCS and all of the sudden are deemed OP.

Just dont dismiss the fact that item changes hugely affect champion balance!!!

FHMarshyApr 6, 201511 votes

Yes i agree completely. But just checked the match history of those OP that said Shaco is OP, and saw no games played as or against Shaco......

AerothalApr 6, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Yes i agree completely. But just checked the match history of those OP that said Shaco is OP, and saw no games played as or against Shaco...... LOL!!!

I love that! its so funny when people who have no idea about a champion rage about him/her being OP.

Space BumApr 7, 20151 votes

I'm not that guy and I'm not rooting for him but I just wanted to throw out there that the match history only goes a couple years back. I've been playing since 2010 and I have a few Champs that it says I have never played, some of them are Champs I own.... On top of that I'm only missing 12 and I have played those 12 as well but it would most likely not show up. Just a point.

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20156 votes

That isn't what happened with Sejuani at all actually, she got a full on micro rework back in preseason that actually boosted her to a very competitive level (she had a 54% win rate before the Cinderhulk patch and had shown up in several pro games across all regions). Cinder hulk boosted her up to a 58% win rate and that in itself isn't what made her OP, it just made people notice that she was already OP.

WhiteGuyWannaBeApr 7, 20151 votes

So true. Sej had been in a solid spot for some time, it just took her being incredibly OP for people to finally notice her.

FreljordanApr 7, 20152 votes

You have a point (and just to be clear I absolutely agree with your actual point) but your example of Sejuani is incorrect, previous to cinderhulk she was already strong and being played quite successfully. A better example would be a different tank jungler like Nautilus. Though he may not have been or is now a big ban, he is quite powerful, being played in the lcs and in soloq fairly regularly, in stark contrast to his previously much lower pick rate.

AbiwonKenabiApr 7, 20151 votes

While I agree that even if a champion is unchanged, the game can change around said champ and make them suddenly an appealing pick.

However, this is just not the case with Shaco. Shaco isn't particularly interested in Cinderhulk, the item that started the jungle buzz in 5.5. He doesn't benefit from the Athene's buff unless for some reason you build him AP, which is dumb unless its an ARAM. Soooo....exactly what game change are you referring to that made Shaco nerf-worthy? If anything the fact that he falls off makes him LESS viable because tank junglers scale extraordinarily well into the late game and Shaco doesn't hardly at all. Rek'Sai is still good, Vi is still good, Lee Sin is good, meaning there are also early game junglers that can prevent Shaco and his lanes from snowballing. All in all, I agree with what you are saying, but Shaco does not need to be nerfed. He is at most a tertiary beneficiary of various changes, and even that is stretching it.

Also, quick note on Sejuani: most people already said Cinderhulk might push her to OP status, and she was already seeing LCS play before Cinderhulk's introduction. So I don't think people thought she was trash-tier at all.

Ariel the CruelApr 6, 20151 votes

Not a single change had been made to Shaco since I started playing him

I don't know when you started playing him, but he did experience a change recently. His counters (tank junglers) got buffed.

. . . Oh wait.

ChessburgerApr 6, 20151 votes

There was a change... they nerfed his Q range. Also shaco is a champion that is really bad unless a) you're extremely good at him or b) people you play against are shit and don't know how to play vs him.

It's mostly the 2nd for most of the community.

fluffymcApr 7, 20151 votes

Stop whining. No one wants to here your butt hurt sob story.

FHMarshyApr 7, 20151 votes

Jeez, tell the whole board to stop posting then lol

TonyTonyMordecaiApr 7, 20151 votes

Tell me about it...

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20151 votes

I have a feeling it is also in combination with the sudden exposure most of the community got to Shaco via URF. Regardless of whether he is OP or not, People see him in URF, and then shortly after see him in pro play. In URF, Shaco is absurdly strong. In that pro game, Shaco got just the right scenario and took a team that was already going on tilt and drove them nuts, continuing to snowball the game very easily. Either way, Shaco ends up looking REALLY strong in those two situations, and people who don't have the wherewithal to think about the surrounding circumstances (i.e. Shaco is an aggravating and uncommon pick to play against, so UOL took advantage of the fact that GMB was starting to go on tilt from the last 2 matches in combination with the fact that Diamond undoubtedly wasn't extremely comfortable playing into a Shaco because of Shaco's rarity and suddenly Shaco becomes doubly effective) don't realize that outside of those circumstances, Shaco will do just as well as he always has.

Champion SkinApr 7, 20151 votes

A good shaco is hell to play against... but he isn't broken because how hard he falls of in teamfights (though he is pretty good at split pushing because of how slippery he is and because he is a pretty good duelist with his fear + the possibility to doge abilities with his ult and or blocking them with his box and his clone deals 50% of his AD so it deals pretty good damage and well his pretty strong burst with IE + Decieve crit + backstab damage increase) But Shaco is also very hard to play correctly and a bad shaco isn't much to worry about after all if he doesn't snowball himself or his team he loses a lot of his power and potential which is less likely to happen is shaco isn't good

junglerboy16Apr 7, 20151 votes

Precisely, Shaco is and has been very balanced for a while now, as a niche pick champion who excels in a certain comp and team style (which is why UOL pulled it off so beautifully).

Rinky DinkyApr 7, 20151 votes

Avoid the recent and new boards sections.

Ignore anything Draaaaaaaaaaaaven posts, and you should be fine

Jungle Lux GodApr 7, 20151 votes

Well of course Shaco isn't OP, especially considering how strong Cinderhulk is right now.

That Shaco pick was just Kikis having such a diverse and strong champion pool that he can do well on. Who wouldn't remember the time he brought out jungle TF, not to mention he was the first to bring both jungle Udyr and Shaco into the EU LCS this year, and I think also the first jungle Nautilus in EU LCS this year as well.

XietninApr 7, 20151 votes

A really good Shaco will carry his whole team in early and through the mid-late but not fullbuild endgame. A really bad Shaco will die. It only needs to happen once, and it will be hard to recover. Given the stealth, fear, slow, and crit mechanics, your main damage must be build hard crit and built early. Sure sure, get your jungler item, its cheap, but good scaling shacos will take crit and the item Ravenous Hydra to quickly blow up carries and get out alive with good attentiveness to abilities and sight. It is not easy to play Shaco, nor should anyone say he's OP. It takes a lot of itemization to turn him into the burst-assassin he needs to be in teamfights. Unless I'm wrong and his clear is good and he can actually deal with taking a death. PS: He is also stealth, and can be scanned, perceived, and dealt with by damage very quickly.

ScrimshäwApr 7, 20151 votes

it's solely because of URF

BabyBananaSucksApr 7, 20151 votes

Shaco Is really OP I don't personally play him because people might think im noob because im playing shaco. Shaco

Meeks011Apr 7, 20151 votes

Lately in games whenever there's a Shaco on my team the enemy puts a vision ward on their side of the river. It completely counters Shaco.

PapaShongo53Apr 7, 20151 votes

I watched that game, I mained Shaco for some time to Plat 1 and have been demoted while I was trying to main Heimer, going back to Shaco now though.

Shaco had very little impact in the early game. He power farmed to mobility boots. The announcers even commented about how he was low and hadn't gone back, he didn't gank either. What caused Shaco to be able to dominate the split push and almost 1 shot EZ is that his lanes won on their own for the most part. He got top snowballing, but after that he just farmed up split pushing and didn't have kill participation until after they were on the inhibs.

What that game showed, just like with any other champ, is that if the team as a whole is doing good then you will too. If GMB was winning bot lane, Shaco would have been ganking them while they were pushed up and GMB could have counter-ganked him which is a real weakness of Shaco. However, all lanes were losing for GMB so Shaco could safely and easily split push without having to worry about his team getting destroyed in the 4v5.

Xela SyabApr 7, 20151 votes

Shaco is bad in this meta, too many tanks and mobile assassins/carries. Who can he gank if the enemy team has 3-4 tanks?

Flawless FetusApr 7, 20151 votes

Circle of nerfs. X champ is weak. a, b, c, d... gets nerfed. X champ is now op. I'm not saying Shaco is op. Just keep in mind that Fiora was considered trash tier for years; then got nerfed for being op without receiving buffs.

FreeLanternRidesApr 7, 20151 votes

my friend is a shaco main he has been kicking ass with him really since mid season 4 (he Recently started so dont call him a newbie he is actually pretty good) but to see that they are crying about him now seems a little ridiculous also shaco becomes very useless the more the game goes on his early game though is fucking godlike