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When are we going to get some way of dealing with champion select trolls in a promotion series game?

Twëek·11/12/2014, 4:12:23 PM·28 votes·2,874 views

As the title suggests, it is so incredibly frustrating being at the mercy of someone with zero empathy deciding they want to ruin your series game and having no way to deal with it (barring reporting them after the game, which is hardly a solution). I don't care so much about losing 3 LP from a normal dodge but the potential of being held hostage in a series games is ridiculous. I only had enough time for one crack at my promotion series to platinum the night that the queues were closing and the first game was a complete wash due to end-of-season trolls.

The suggestion of being able to vote-kick people in champion select has been around forever and hasn't really moved forward due to potential abuse cases but something of the sort should really be available if a player on your team is in a series game. An alternative, like having the ability to disband a champion select (provided you are in a set of series games) once for a given series would be such a relief.

EDIT: Some suggestions that have come up from other players:

A means to deal with malicious players in champion select: 1.) The ability to earn "dodges" by playing a set number of ranked games without dodging. This isn't without problems - we know that Riot never wants to encourage leaving games, but we can't be blamed for wanting a legitimate way to be able to leave a series game when we get an allied player who has been going 0/20 all day with {{summoner:10}} summoner 12 MasterYi

General Champion Select improvements: 1.) Being able to re-queue up with a team that you'd been matched with, in the event that the lobby is dissolved by a dodge.

2.) Reduce randomness in pick order for a player is dodging. An clear abuse case in dodging is doing so in order to get a higher place on the pick order - a player should not be abusing the system to avoid taking their turn at being last pick.

3.) A report button available in champion select. Yes please. This would of course have to be heavily scrutinized. A report shouldn't count against you for something like a rare/unconventional champion pick.

4.) Only match players who are in their series with other players who are in series games. Everyone should go in with something personal on the line. Longer queue times would be worth the guarantee that everyone is in these tense games and (probably in most cases) will try harder as a result.

38 Comments

ValyrianBlade11/12/2014, 4:21:45 PM17 votes

I've previously suggested earning free dodges every x completed Games without a Dodge. So if you enter and play 5 Games in a row without dodging you earn 1 Dodge for example, with a cap on how many dodges you can hold.

Cost of dodging without using a free Dodge would be higher for normal (non promo) ranked Games, such as 15-20lp, dodging a promo without a free Dodge would be the same cost, and if you have a free Dodge there is no penalty to dodging (apart from using the Dodge and resetting your game counter to earning a new Dodge).

Players could then Dodge promos if they have proven they don't Dodge for silly reasons by playing consecutive Games to earn the dodges. The time penalty could either still apply or not.

I honestly think this would work, you'd feel a lot more in control of these things. The rate of earning dodges and the cap on Saved ones could be balanced to prevent dodging becoming too common (if anything people would Dodge less because they want to earn dodges for real trolls, and dodging without a free Dodge is similar to a full loss).

Anomander11/12/2014, 8:30:37 PM8 votes

How abouty we do away with promotional series altogether and go based solely on MMR and have it be a visible number with set cut offs for each tier.
Such as 0-1000 is bronze 1000-1400 is silver 1400-1600 is gold 1600-1800 is plat 1800-2000 is Diamond 2000-2200 is challenger 2200+ is master

Now obviously this would need to be tweaked but it would prevent people from getting hosed by trolls in promos as there are none.

Cotea11/13/2014, 2:13:17 AM6 votes

Why doesnt Riot just group all those in promos together? If everyone is in promos on the 1 ranked team then everyone is going to play their best to win! There is more then 1 Bronze/Silver/Gold team! (ie Sivirs Snipers) So I am pretty sure they can get quite a few Promo only teams going, also there are lots of people going INTO promos so there will always be ample amount of players going into promos if anyone thinks there wont be enough players.

Adrenalotr11/12/2014, 6:28:33 PM6 votes

Earning dodges is a terrible idea, because it'll get treated like ARAM's rerolls - if you don't get the team you want, you dodge. If you get counterpicked, you dodge. It's free, no problem.

It actually helps trolls and bullies get what they want, because if they don't, they'll just dodge. Fifth pick and can't get mid no matter how you threaten to troll? Dodge.

And it'll make the time spent waiting to get into a game so much longer, because so many games will just be disbanded due to free dodges.

It's a terrible idea. We need better ones.

--

**A report button in Champ Select **might help. There's not a lot of gameplay ways to disrupt it, at most you can pick stupid Spells, troll with you champion pick, and misbehave in chat, but that's it. Riot already collects logs from Champ Select, they just weren't included in the Tribunal, probably because people there refer to players by their summoner names rather than champion names, and Riot wants the players to be anonymous while being judged.

Making sure players know the Champ Select chat is logged and can be read by Riot might help. Getting this across to all players is pretty much impossible, but a loading screen tip mentioning it would reach a lot of players.

While not a solution to the problem in Champ Select, it's a common source of frustration: You get a good team, and someone on the other team dodges, and your good team is gone. Being able to stay on the same team, where you might have agreed on roles and positions, might help.

Keeping the Pick Order would reduce the reward from dodging or getting someone to dodge. If someone wants mid but is fifth pick, they can dodge, or threaten to troll so that someone else dodges, and get a higher pick in next Champ Select. This is not good, it's abuse of the system, and should be addressed. It would reduce the incentive to induce a dodge in the team - in other words, reduce trolling that's used to get a higher pick/your preferred role.

--

I have a long thread on EUNE's Player Behavior forum where I've thought about these things and my experience with problems primarily in Champ Select. Now that the season's over, I could go over my thread and dig up all the ideas I've had for this.

TeemoHunter133711/12/2014, 5:49:52 PM5 votes

make dodging like ARAM rerolls. after 10 full ranked games u get 1 free dodge.

u can stack it up to 2 time only. so u can play 20 straight games and have 2 free dodges.

basically 100 pct like aram rerolls.

Eye of Implex11/13/2014, 4:57:49 AM2 votes

i had a first-picked-autolocked-jungle-teemo on one of my promotion series to s3

i was like "Really bruh...?"

Ulquiorra99511/12/2014, 9:32:17 PM2 votes

Let's see... In order to attain promotion someone needs to win 3/4 or 4/6 games (counting a game that gets you to 100 LP and promos immediately after). That's dumb by itself - it requires a short term win rate of 75% or 66%. A person who can attain that amount of win rate consistently should be in Challenger in no time, hell, probably even in LCS.

And there are the trolls. We have no legitimate way to counter trolls in champ select. Say I've just reached my promos for Plat 1, and there is a troll in my first promo game. If I play I lose, if I dodge I lose automatically. So, counting game I played to get to 100 LP and 2 remaining promo games I'm required to have 3/3 wins - THAT'S A 100% SHORT-TERM WINRATE.

And they will continue to do it, as long as there is no way to beat them in champ select. No report option, no vote kick - it all gives the power to the trolls. Only way to report them is to painfully sit through a, say, 30-minute long game just for a report that might get them banned.

MalaceX11/13/2014, 5:01:49 AM2 votes

The fact that Riot doesn't already match players with others who are in series is an issue in itself. Just because a players chooses to play Ranked doesn't mean they are wanting to be competitive or cooperative with their teammates.

I feel there should really be more restrictions to Ranked play other than simply being level 30.

CLG Factor11/12/2014, 4:44:28 PM2 votes

Don't tell people that you are in a series

52426480_DEL11/13/2014, 6:44:15 AM2 votes

How about a vote to dodge? As in if 4 out of the 5 players agree that the game is worth dodging due to one troll, they can vote to dodge at no penalty. A lot of times people don't want to dodge because they don't want to wait 30 minutes if they already used their 5 minute dodge. If 4 out of 5 players decide the game is not worth playing at champ select, then allow them to make that decision right there.

Sirchocolatemilk11/12/2014, 11:02:46 PM2 votes

dodging doesn't matter promos don't matter divisions don't matter. All that matters is your mmr. If you meet a troll in champ select dodge, if you dont like the team comp dodge.

Magic Mo11/14/2014, 4:30:40 AM1 votes

As some guys mentioned, trolls will get free dodges as well. It sounds appealing on paper, but I know pretty much 90% of champion selects where there's a troll, the game is dodged (in my personal experience anyway). Sure, the 10% sucks, but it pretty much equals out when the troll is on the other team.

"Buh the troll is never on their team". My. @$&. Hole. You only notice your unlucky games. If you got lucky with a troll/afk on the other team, you don't remember it. You just remember going 9823892389/0/238998239823892398 and showing your "epic skillz" to your hormonal teenage friends.

If I got trolls on my series on the other team from platinum to diamond, I'd be happy as hell. Yes, I'd prefer to win the series fair and square, but I wouldn't prefer to lose the series fair and square :)

Of course, I'm not against anti-trolls. I just think free dodge is bad. Most of this complaining is way out of line, because very few people have been the victim more than they've been the beneficiary. If @MuhPHDRiotLyte spent as much time against trolls as he did against toxics, this wouldn't be a problem.

So, if anything, ask for a better anti-troll system. One that should've come way before an automated Cry-bunal. Lyte has posted that we're getting a better troll system, yet I still see the same (if not a bigger) amount of trolls in my games.

DREEZY56211/12/2014, 6:46:31 PM1 votes

so what happened in your promo champ select?

DrNova11/12/2014, 11:47:42 PM1 votes

Reporting a "troll" pick is a terrible idea. It just enforces the meta champs on everyone.

I play Gnar mid quite frequently, and always hear comments and QQ about it pregame. Gets strangely silent after I start facerolling peeps though.

Point is just because you think its troll doesnt mean a damned thing. There are plenty of unorthadox picks that do really well, but to many people are metaslaves, and it woulld just abuse players who may actually just be ahead of the curve.

5xk8bWHDJL11/12/2014, 11:58:09 PM1 votes

How about every game not just promos...

NyNz MozaiX11/13/2014, 1:29:11 AM1 votes

create a voting process. giving permissions to "trusted community players" can be too easily manipulated and deceived. when it comes to voting, its much safer as to the outcome.

  • voting step 1 - your team uses a vote just like surrender, which designates a specific player based on the popular vote.

  • voting step 2- a match-wide vote commences which also requires enemy team's input. you need at least 7 votes on a single person to count them as a griefer, which will trigger the following outcomes: -- the griefer is banned for 1-week first time, permanent 2nd time. -- up for discussion ... a victory given to both teams. or, prevented loss given to both teams. or, a victory given to winning team, a loss to losing team but no loss of LP will happen.

  • voting step 2 (cont.) - if you do not get 7 votes, the fact that it went to a match-wide vote will put that match up for review to the tribunal system and you will have to wait patiently for a determination, and if so, the losing team will be refunded any lost LP for that match.