"Go kill yourself"

Sir ArmaMalum·10/15/2014, 3:37:02 PM·10 votes·5,500 views

Note: This is not a rant, troll post or lecture, but a discussion on a (appropriately so) sensitive topic. For those of you that feel strongly on this subject (As I do), please temper your opinions the best you can so we may be able to facilitate an actual two-sided discussion.

Short and simple:

Should saying "go kill yourself" or "I am going to find you and kill you in your sleep" or some such be a reportable offense, regardless of the context or behavior of the speaker?

I will leave my own personal opinion in a comment below to prevent bias within the question. (found here for convenience)

73 Comments

Sammander10/15/2014, 4:14:35 PM8 votes

Should saying "go kill yourself" or "I am going to find you and kill you in your sleep" or some such be a reportable offense, regardless of the context or behavior of the speaker?

These two statements are completely different...

Jubbinaut10/15/2014, 4:44:37 PM6 votes

If there's a context within which that those kinds of phrases are acceptable, it lies entirely within a pre-existing relationship. Friends who know each other's limits and boundaries can share jokes like this - as I've been known to do, myself.

But in my opinion, no other usage of death threats or suicide comments should ever be considered acceptable. Without prior awareness of whether or not a person has it in them to follow through on a threat like that (or how they genuinely feel about you), any kind of comment like that must be taken seriously, both by the target and any observers.

Sir ArmaMalum10/15/2014, 3:37:34 PM6 votes

I am a firm believer in the Socratic method (forming and guiding discussion by asking the opposing side questions to stimulate critical thinking). As such, even though I am firmly against phrases like this no matter the context I will make the effort to understand the opposing viewpoint, if there is one.

For me specifically, I have had friends and family (though thankfully never myself) emotionally compromised and thus have had too many moment where a phrase like "go kill yourself", no matter how lightly used, would have actually resulted in a death. Luckily this never happened, but I have been right there in the thick of it; where words and how they are used hold more power over a person than most would care to admit. Where what you meant and your intent of your words mean jack all, only the results. My experience in life has given me a profound respect for communication towards other people, and while I cannot say I have been perfect, I do hold myself to a high standard when it comes to talking to someone else, in-game or out. As well as a profound respect for a life in general.

At the same time, I also hope my experience is not a common one. I hope that very few of you have had to deal with a loved one losing all hope or a friend being placed on suicide watch. I do not expect the average person to truly grasp my view without these experiences, and I do not wish these experiences on anyone.

(tl;dr) So this leaves me hoping you can trust me when I say that I think anyone who types a death threat or another such phrase like that in earnest, that I genuinely think you have given up the right to speak.

#If you do not appropriately grasp what words like that mean, but use them anyway...

you obviously need to put more effort into understanding the implications of what you say. **Like a child in time-out. **

#If you realize the gravity of what you are saying, but say it anyway...

you obviously do not care enough to be able to communicate with the fellow human beings that you hold in such little regard. You are using words as a weapon and have no respect for the safety of the people around you, you need to have that weapon removed from your possession. Like a dog with a muzzle.

This is my honest, but individual, opinion. I recognize that I feel strongly about this subject and as such hope that the intensity of my opinion is meant specifically to convey that, and not to shut down the opinions of others.

Pandemic Punch10/15/2014, 4:18:35 PM4 votes

Look at it this way. If someone said this to you in real life, how would you respond? Would you say thank you and continue what you were doing? If you have a pair, you would probably smack them around for a little while.

imonly4noobcakes10/15/2014, 4:16:09 PM3 votes

Common sense says this is toxic behaviour.

Wheatloaf10/15/2014, 7:27:55 PM2 votes

Some people can't take real life seriously, and others can't not take games seriously. We shouldn't make the assumption that some random person we tell to "kill themselves" won't take the advice seriously in some form or other. When you don't have the information to know, always assume the worst rather than the best.

Zanryu10/15/2014, 4:10:27 PM2 votes

In fact, even the slightest attempt of murder threat is punishable. In most countries, in this example Germany, the murder threat can result in an prison sentence for up to one year. Surely, the judge have to make sure that the threat is real and the victim is truly frightened by this threat. But in most cases this results in an injunction and monetary penalty.

Either way this is always to be taken serious.

Jivvie10/15/2014, 4:17:57 PM2 votes

Damn, over 90% of us agree...... good.

slippykitten10/15/2014, 4:51:37 PM2 votes

What makes a phrase particularly harmful? It is the intent behind the words and the emotional state of the hearer.

For example - if you call me a dumb nigger, meaning to offend me based on my race, im not going to care because that phrase is of no particular meaning to me being white. On the other end - if you call me a dumb nigger, intending it as a joke, im not going to care because jokes are just jokes.

So for the average person, saying "kill yourself" shouldnt be of any particular meaning. A joke should be a joke without the world blowing its cork and those who are struggling with thoughts of suicide should not be immersing their minds in a community of childish people with the mindset that everything said to them is serious business.

My point is that no words should be particularly harmful in the context of a video game, and if they are, you need to find balance in your emotional state.

Am i saying those are good things to say? of course not, but there isnt any reason to think they are cataclysmic phrases with special power to hurt others. Sometimes people need to just grow up a little (on both sides)

Eawaf10/15/2014, 9:04:06 PM2 votes

Death threats over League of legends. A video game? This seems to be a gross overreaction to an issue that does not seem to separate itself from other forms of toxicity. Kill yourself, die in a fire, these are not special insults, they aren't special words that have power. The only power other people have over you in this game is the power you give them.

I voted no because i don't see a reason to separate these 'insults' from other forms of insults experienced in the game. And please stop with the tolerance and understanding of folks that use these insults. In the heat of anger and frustration people will say just about anything to convey even a modicum of their feelings during said moment to the person causing such  anger. Am i excusing their behavior? no. It's all toxicity and should all be treated the same.

Sticks and stones break bones, words never hurt me. Mute report and move on. If what someone says to you over a video game causes you to contemplate suicide, i think your issue extends FAR beyond the scope or context of this game. And it is my belief that this game does NOT have the responsibility to be your psychologist as well as your entertainer.

ShadowNinetails10/16/2014, 5:40:20 AM2 votes

I'm going to go ahead and say no not because I think it's acceptable conduct from one random to another, but because if we start banning people for threats without considering context, me and several of my friends would most certainly be permabanned right now because with more than one of them there's a running gag of "You'd better not feed. Remember I know where you live." or some such faux threat. Things I'd never say to someone I wasn't friends with and if said in the presence of randoms we usually remember to tell them that we're friends so they don't get the wrong idea, but there's very very few instances where considering actus reus without considering mens rea is appropriate as evidenced by how few criminal laws there are (at least in the US) that don't require a concurrence of the two.

TenSlashTen10/15/2014, 4:48:33 PM1 votes

Read a book, is my reply to this thread. Low brow insults are disgusting and pathetic to me.

Feel ashamed, please.

Undersky10/15/2014, 8:35:48 PM1 votes

This is thought control and thought policing... there is a button to mute people you don't want to hear...

Daen10/16/2014, 6:41:11 PM1 votes

There are actually valid situations where "go kill yourself" could fit. Let's say we're in an ARAM and our ADC hasn't died yet and we will lose if they don't die to buy items. "Please go kill yourself" actually fits the context.

For this reason, I voted no. The general idea of death threats being punishable has merit (and I think it's already punished), but specifically reporting certain phrases regardless of context is risky.

pro4never10/15/2014, 9:22:55 PM1 votes

Filed under "Duhh"

Threatening, insulting or verbally abusing people is never acceptable regardless of the circumstances. I don't care if top is 0/20, telling them to die/get cancer/etc just makes you part of the problem. Of course you are welcome to be frustrated with them but all you're doing is dragging the game experience down even further by airing your frustrations in chat.

nerak2310/15/2014, 9:35:45 PM1 votes

Personally I'd argue that a laissez faire attitude like that slowly degrades the overall community due to lack of repercussions towards this specific behavior.

Okay, here let me try it this way, There are lines that don't need to be walked up to let alone crossed.

If someone say "Lee no skin-- kill yourself" ( I am picking the least offensive form for example ) Okay one can argue there is nothing wrong with it. But what if what happens the next time is " blah blah your bad Go Kill yourself". The said person gets told that this statement is not 'nice' and replies ..J/k so and so said it so can I.

So the whole "go and die" stuff gets to the point where the line is blurry. I am trying to keep this simple. In the end, IMO just Don't allow any of this kind of talk..

As I said earlier, I think enough reasons have been given why it should be punished so I won't go back over details.

Kat Head10/16/2014, 12:52:30 AM1 votes

Yes, they should be insta perma ban.

Nerdomundo10/16/2014, 1:23:19 AM1 votes

Here's my two cents:

Only siths deal in absolutes. All cases should be based fairly by a 3rd party.

If the outcome (to them) looks malicious, then yes, a ban should be given out.

If a few friends are having a chill game, joking, and obviously having a good time - regardless of the K/D/A - and have, let's say, one person not in their premade, who is doing pretty bad.

The premade isn't abusive, they're obviously kidding around, with no malicious intent, and are not harassing the guy... but nonchalantly say 'kill yourself' when a mistake is made (say he's playing support and get's nailed by a draven).

Guy's having a bad day though, and doesn't take it lightly.

Ends up reporting the guy for harassment off that one comment.

That's in the wrong. You can't expect the Tribunal to understand or reasonably accommodate your bad mood or possible mental issues.

The Tribunal is, as the Tribunal does. Democracy is a powerful force, but no one will ever agree 100% with it. But like all systems, you must learn to cope and adapt to it.

Kinjishi10/16/2014, 2:11:17 AM1 votes

"Note: This is not a rant, troll post or lecture, but a discussion on a (appropriately so) sensitive topic. For those of you that feel strongly on this subject (As I do)," S.A.M.

If you feel strongly about this sensitive issue, then perhaps a better thread topic is called for?

Reconsul10/17/2014, 1:17:42 AM1 votes

"Just ignore them" Gets real old real fast.

Hoi Im Temmo10/15/2014, 5:02:35 PM1 votes

regardless of the context or behavior of the speaker

This phrase makes an answer tricky. If said with any level of seriousness, the answer is an intimidate yes. If said, as suggested later in the thread, is used jokingly, perhaps a simple warning, defining exactly what you said and why you should not, would be more appropriate.

Having to pick yes or no, however, I would normally lean towards yes.

slippykitten10/15/2014, 5:42:17 PM1 votes

I would also like to add (mostly for the devils advocate's sake) that real life does actually contain phrases exactly like this, and are often used in text form. It is a literary device called hyperbole, or an extreme, unrealistic exaggeration for the sake of making your point more dramatic. We use these phrases all the time "the traffic today was literally the worst thing ive ever seen" - obviously not true, exaggerated for effect. "You ate my poptart!? i hate you so much!" - expressing displeasure by being extreme.

"go kill yourself" is obviously used as hyperbole, giving you the most extreme form of self disappointment.

So saying the internet is the only place this happens is silly, it does happen in every day life all the time. So what is the difference? is the one speaking these things in a different mindset and meaning them seriously? is the atmosphere so serious that someone should take it as such? or is the hearer overreacting because they are mad themselves? thats the hard question to answer.