Hybrid Builds, Please Bring Them Back

Cerbearus·Oct 20, 2013·2 votes·236 views

Remember when you built hybrid on Kat/Akali/Jax? Oh god those were the days. Then dominion came out and those champions were absolutely dominant on the map, so Riot absolutely gutted Gunblade. This effectively killed all hybrid builds forever. Akali is straight AP now, Jax can kinda still do it but is much better with Triforce/BotRK, and Kat is also straight AP now. Guinsoo's rageblade is now one of the least used items in the game for this reason. Buff up some hybrid items, make some new ones, and maybe release another champion with good AP and AD scaling. Right now there is only 3 main build paths: AD, AP, or Tank. On-hit builds are the most useless thing ever and Hybrid is completely dead.

15 Comments

OpasonofpopaOct 21, 20132 votes

The problem is that if you build hybrid you won't get any armor/magic penetration, which leads to a crappy damage output. Maybe when morello nerfs void staff and last whisper hybrid will be a more viable strategy.

Solan StonewhipOct 21, 20132 votes

i'd never thought about it, but it's so true hybrid worked so well in seasons 1 and 2 because health was so much more important than stats.

enter BORK/the new DFG and stats like armor and mr became so much more important in S3.

without a hybrid penetration item. hybrid is just not viable.

they're buffs to nashor's and the guinsoo's rework didn't really help much either. cause that's what they're missing.

but is that all they're missing? or does LW and VS need a nerf as well

OpasonofpopaOct 22, 20131 votes

It was also about gunblade being ridiculous if you could use all the stats well. After it was brought down the damage for hybrid builds just couldn't compete with ad builds and the burst potential of ap builds is just more useful than the bit of extra damage a hybrid build would give you.

Nowadays i think that only akali uses gunblade anymore. For jax BotRK is better because att speed is very important for him due to the stacking of his ult. Also the active is a lot better. Maybe very late in the game when you get enough att speed from other sources gunblade would outscale BotRK. Too lazy to run the calc.

I never thought about health stacking being beneficial to hybrids but it is true. I am not sure if champions have more resists than previous seasons. They actually nerfed resists at the beginning of season 3. Although warmogs was a more popular item before (and it gave more health).

About nashors tooth I think it actually isn't a hybrid item. It works best for ability power builds that love to use auto attacks. Examples ap teemo, ap kayle and ap kog maw. Rageblade on the other hand is just not good because so much of its power is in the boost at low hp, which is easily dealt with with a little burst of damage.

Also LW and VS really need a nerf.

Solan StonewhipOct 23, 20131 votes

with ap kog. it's almost better go mana regen and straight ap. add in a lich bane and you can demolish anyone from range. and if they get close you can burst them down. doesn't help much against the assassiny assassins of the current meta. but if you're fed you can itemize to gimp them too

OpasonofpopaOct 23, 20131 votes

Myself I get mana regen first, then ap then att speed. I don't know if lich bane is that mandatory. I would probably leave it out and take nashor's instead. Then you will outdamage lich with 3 basic attacks, which you will most likely pull off. I might be wrong though. It has been a long time since I played kog in the first place.

Solan StonewhipOct 23, 20131 votes

never done the math either. i just feel like i'm doing more damage with lich bane.

OpasonofpopaOct 26, 20131 votes

I don't think you can calculate that. The only math is that nashors has a 0.75 ratio with 3 basic attacks, which equals a lich bane proc. The deciding factor is how much can you basic attack compared to how often you can proc lich bane. And the only way to know that is trying it out ingame.

Overall I find the other stats that nashor's gives to be a bit more valuable than those of lich bane (though the movement speed is really tasty) making it a better option if you can get those 3 basic attacks per 1 lich bane proc.

Solan StonewhipOct 27, 20131 votes

i think if you were really keen you could calculate that. but you'd have to be REALLY keen. it depends what kind of build you're going for glass cannon burst vs sustained damage

CerbearusOct 22, 20132 votes

Hmm true, but then what are the point of hybrid mpen/arpen runes? They released those sometime last season. They give more penetration overall but less of each compared to the ones with just 1 type of pen. Does anybody use these well currently? But yeah the LW/VS nerfs I am looking forward to, that might completely change the game.

OpasonofpopaOct 22, 20131 votes

Those runes are really good. They are useful even on for example ap carries that harass a lot with auto attacks early game. You won't lose much from your full damage combo, but your harass will be more potent. Also there was some discussion about using them on more ability based ad carries like tristana and corki. But for lategame carrying it just isn't enough if the tank has 140 mr and armor instead of 150. At least compared to 85 - 150 that VS and LW will give you with pen runes. Granted you can use that gold to get other stuff but it won't be as effective - not by a long shot.

Solan StonewhipOct 23, 20131 votes

yeah, they're on my to buy list. lots of folks use 'em apparently

ploki122Oct 21, 20131 votes

Irelia still builds tanky + on-hit Jax/Kayle/Poppy CAn still build gunblade (however there ARE better items for Kayle)

CerbearusOct 22, 20131 votes

Yeah exactly my point. Find a champion that can build gunblade without sacrificing damage or more survivability. It just isn't worth it since the nerfs and is still mad expensive. Irelia and Teemo I think are the only ones who build on-hit anymore but honestly how often do you see them? Of all the ranked games I've played this season I have probably seen 4 Irelias and 5 Teemos, and Teemo will usually build AP and Irelia will only sometimes go for on-hit, usually opting for triforce/botrk like jax.

ploki122Oct 22, 20131 votes

It is pretty much as core as can be on Poppy...

CerbearusOct 22, 20131 votes

I just wish more people could use it :/ not a ton people have enough physical and magic scaling in their kit to warrant getting it. Poppy Akali Jax yeah but still it isn't a huge priority. Idk why Kat gets it cuz the lifesteal is useless on her and her AD scaling isn't great. Might be because WotA gives the exact same amount of spellvamp and only 15 more ap. But idk cuz spellvamp only gives 1/3 of the amount of hp back on aoe abilities so it isn't super strong on Kat anyway. Oh well, I just hope hybrid itemization gets some love in season 4