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So, I wanted to try out AD Malzahar jungle today...

Count Zubat··44 votes·3,480 views

I watched a video showcasing AD Malza jungle and I thought it would be fun to try it out, especially considering that Malza is in free rotation right now. So, I went to normal draft (I would never do it in ranked, of course), called that I would like to jungle and got the role. I locked in Malzahar... I never got such a backlash from my teammates, not even when I was picking Mordekaiser to jungle. I was immediately called a troll, got warned by some of the people that they're gonna report me, everybody was saying we already lost and Lucian exclaimed he's gonna troll. The situation ended with somebody dodging (probably one of the guys from my team).

I've never, ever saw such a saltiness. Why in the game that is supposed to be fun everything is taken so seriously? I would understand such behaviour in ranked, where everyone plays competitive, but in normal? The game mode in which you are supposed to train for ranked and try out new things? Why can't we chill out? Let people try out new things? Play FOR FUN?

Now, I am aware that there are real trolls, who like to do things like Disco Nunu and it's sometimes hard to recognize in champ select if someone is trolling or just wants to try out something out of meta. Also, in my last match, I had Blitz supp who took exhaust/teleport and was asking us if we are going to report him for not having flash. What the fck? How bad the community is that some people ask if they are gonna get reported just because they didn't take flash?

Are only pros allowed to try out new strategies, everybody else will get reported for not following so called "meta" ( I know I wouldn't probably get banned, but it's still sad)? Let people play what they want, don't take a goddamn game to seriously, especially in normals.

EDIT: Well, still no luck. This time, I told my team mates before I made a pick that I'm going to take an unconventional jungler. I talked with them after picking, kinda seemed like they accepted my pick, but again, someone left (sigh). In next champ select, one of the guys from previous one was banning and banned Malzahar just to prevent me from picking him :( Maybe I'll really try in team builder, I just hope it won't take eternity to find match.

76 Comments

The Whamboozler21 votes

Nothing wrong with meta-breaking in normals as long as you genuinely are trying your best to win. AD Malz, mid Nami, top lane Taric, Tank Teemo... whatever you want to play... all fine! It's normals. It's not for keeps, and it's a freaking game. The point of a game is to have fun. As long as you're trying your best and the idea isn't UTTERLY troll with no way it CAN work...(AP Draven or something) ignore the haters and do what you like. It's a god damned game! Normals are for fun. Mute everyone and have fun!

SH Azykan8 votes

Top Taric is more meta than Support Taric at this point. Actually it has one of the best winrates in the game right now >.>

And AP Draven op item 3100 item 3115 item 3285 item 3089 item 3094 item 3158

HayRoss5 votes

Build anything on Draven and he will still get a pentakill while checking his twitter

HAIL DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEN

Weathered3 votes

Just had a top taric earlier today. He went something like 3/7/14, which actually wasn't that bad for a tank. He let me get most of the kills and I was 19/1/7 by the end of the game ^.^ (Khazix)

High52 votes

Winning is fun. Losing because someone is experimenting is not. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not playing to help other people try off-meta things from the free rotation.

The meta shifts as people try new things. However, I and 98% of the playerbase are not smarter than the meta. Play to win.

The Whamboozler5 votes

It's normals. As long as they're trying to win, I don't mind off-meta picks. The game is supposed to be fun. If they wanna roll AP Varus or jungle Quinn or something unusual.... I'm down. If you want to play to win, play ranked. If you play norms, you kinda need to accept that people are there learning new champs, playing odd picks or just playing half-assed because they're tired/high/drunk/fooling around. Taking normals too seriously will drive you insane... because not everyone else is going to. Really, it's for your own well-being to just chill and abide it.

ltmetal13 votes

AD Malzahar Jungle is definitely competitive level, I take him into ranked and have a >50% win rate in the jungle.

item 1408 item 3004 item 3047 item 3071 item 3156 item 3143

Run Lucidity Boots if you can't get 10% CDR from your runes and don't want to rely on having blue.

Count Zubat3 votes

Thanks for build man, I'll definitely try it out. Just one question: should I rush Tear and buy it on first back?

ltmetal5 votes

My recommended build order:

item 1039 item 2003 item 3340 item 3711 item 1004 item 3341 item 3070 item 1408 item 1001 item 3133 item 3364 item 3004 item 3071 item 3047 item 3111 item 3158 item 3156 item 3143 adjusting order based on who's fed on the enemy team.

Optional items for the 5th and 6th slots include:

item 3139 item 3157 item 3026 item 3146 item 3033 item 3102 item 3022

EDIT: Also, skill order because I always hear confusion on this. W first, spam it three times on the fountain pre minion spawn. Q second, E third. Max R, max Q, max E, max W.

Count Zubat2 votes

Thank you kindly, sir :)

Supreme Senpai691 votes

I rush tear because otherwise you won't get it stacked fully. I go Talisman, Tear, finished jungle item, boots, then start my other stuff (which depends on the game tbh.) The idea with AD Jungle Malzahar is that you're popping off spells left and right to shit your voidlings out asap. Like, legit every second you wait is less mana and less chance to fill your tear.

(Also before the game starts, i blow off 3 W's in base. That way you have full mana and your next ability will summon a voidling to tank your blue. This way I don't rely on leashes.)

Good luck!

Karol Scheibler1 votes

Go and watch Aqua Dragon on Yt or on Twitch. He plays AD Malzahar in jungle.

da glorious2 votes

What about death's dance. You get the 10%cdr and your bugs get "life steal"

RisenDarkKnight5 votes

The death's dance doesn't actually work on malz. The voidlings don't heal or give you healing. Hextech gunblade does work and I build it on him. I go Warrior -> Tear -> Cleaver -> Lucidity Boots -> Muramana -> Gunblade -> Defensive item

Earl Eulrich9 votes

unfortunatly the sad reality for most off-meta-picks. There are always those people that will add a negative atmosphere in the beginning, then do everything they can to not support the pick and in the end mostly get reassured in their ignorant view of the world - as ofc a game where your tema doesn´t even try to play as a team will end up with a lose no matter what you pick into it. THough they comfortably only blame the non-meta pick and call it a day.

Just find some firends you can play weird stuff with, it´s a lot of fun and if you know how to play it very deadly, as most opponents will have no clue how to play against it (e.g. just yesterday played a zobie-zyra+yorrik botlane for the fun of it and totally took the game appart).

SociopathFriend1 votes

He/she speaks the truth, I'd be very hesitant to take Taric top when not playing with my friends, precisely because most people would assume it's not as good due to him not being meta.

I typically would rather maintain a good team morale starting the match than take an off-meta pick that would jeopardize the team spirit.

ValyrianBlade7 votes

Teambuilder. Since it's jungle I understand not wanting intermediate AI, but you can still learn the clear feel that way.

Not every wants to play with something off meta.

Not everyone plays ranked - some people take normals seriously. They're preparing for ranked for example. They don't want to deal with someone trying something for the first time.

Teambuilder lets you find teammates willing to try it.

Raoul5 votes

most likely because you were willing to put your fun over anything else and then you were suprised that the others didnt agree. Get a 5 man premade team if you want to do trollpicks you once saw in a youtube video!

Count Zubat8 votes

Again, you are mistaking trolling with off-meta playing. Also, unless I feed or play badly, I won't make the game unfun for my teammates, but I can have bad game even with meta champions and feed with them. The only difference - I would probably be flamed more for feeding with off-meta pick than if I would feed with meta pick.

Also, tbh, AD Malzahar works pretty well and is a quite known pick for those who play off-meta. He is amazing splitpusher and duelist, his little minions deal just insane damage.

Also, I don't have 4 friends playing League :(

Raoul3 votes

Yeah, guess you are one of these "I am better than the Meta" special snowflakes. Play Team builder!

Count Zubat5 votes

I already discussed in one of the comments below why I don't see teambuilder as a good solution.

About being "special snowflake", I play off-meta very rarely, but sometimes, when I come with an idea that works on paper, I am willing to try it out. Also, why I should be restricted by "meta"? I get it, not everything will work, some "ideas" are just insane and impossible to pull out. I would never try out something like AP Talon, for example, because there's nothing in his kit that might use AP, but if there is something in champ's kit that seems to be underused with the "meta" build, but could be unlocked to full potential with different build, why not check out if it can work?

I don't like how "meta" works in league. It basically means "play only things we tell you to, you have no rights to experiment". Well, guess how meta changes: by experimenting. Remember AD Fizz, Cinderhulk top lane, Runeglaive Ezreal? Support Nautilus? These are things that sounded crazy, but became meta. If nobody was willing to experiment, we would never see interesting picks like these surface.

Raoul3 votes

{quoted}

Actually, Fizz wasnt played AD he was played attack speed, abusing the on hit damage in his kit. AP Ezreal has always been a thing and frequently played. Cinderhulk Top lane was done because Cinderhulk was freaking broken back then.

Count Zubat4 votes

AD, attack speed, on-hit... What matters is that it was deemed by a lot of people crazy and unrealistic, but became very strong pick for a while (read: until Riot decided to completely decimate this playstyle. Maybe that's good, because it was quite cancerous). It saw a lot of spotlight even on LCS. Guess how did this happen? Because somebody decided to experiment.

Raoul1 votes

All the playstyles you have mentioned were abusing something broken in the champions kit or a very abusive way to use an Item. They were played because they were super strong.

Tell me, what kind of AD items can be abused by Malzahar? Which part of his kit is broken with AD? And before you say his passive: The Voidlings are easily countered and not reliable. Your only AD using "Spell" is basicly nullified by one teammate around who just kills the Voidling. You can jungle with your voidling tanking, yes. But after that, you are useless whenever your Ultimate is down.

I dont doom non meta jungling. I had a very good Zyra in the jungle lately, but she is not bound to her ultimate to do stuff.

AD Mazahar is only good in 1v1 or in Teamfights for his Ultimate, but at that point I would prefere Warwick...

SH Azykan6 votes

item 3042 item 3071 item 3156 item 3036 item 3142 item 3158 is a really strong AD malz build. (Swap yomuu's for warrior if jg)

He is also one of if not the fastest split pushers in the game (he doesnt even need minion waves to kill the towers)

Nobody can 1 v 1 him because he silences then ults you with 2 voidlings up and you are going to die before the ult wears off.

Yes he is weaker than AP malz in teamfights because you can have allies kill his voidlings. But they do an insane amount of damage. His ganks are even more lethal than Warwicks and he clears the jg way faster.

It is essentially an entirely different champion from AP malz on how they are to be played.

Raoul1 votes

So you describe a perfect szenario, that would most likely requier you to not use an ability for a long time, and then you also need the enemy to get caught by your not so hard to avoid Q so he cant just flash you.

Basicly you say that he can work in a perfect case szenario, that needs to be set up before AND work out perfectly when you engage.

SH Azykan4 votes

40% cdr malz is pretty easy to keep 2 voidlings up. a perfect scenario is 3 voidlings which does require prep. also if they are flashing I can just ult them anyways, the silence is just to try to get them to blow flash away from me or to stop them from QSS'ing if it hits. And not using any ability for a long time means I have 0 voidlings up...you cast Q and W on cd to keep voidlings prepped generally and can just avoid fights when not prepared with a cd or a voidling in tow.

Go watch some Pants Are Dragon games of AD malz to get an idea of how he is supposed to be played.

Count Zubat6 votes

Tell me, what kind of AD items can be abused by Malzahar?

I'd say armor penetration and pure AD, cause voidlings make use of your items penetration, but I'm no specialist in it. There are AD Malzahar guides in internet, so you might find your answer there.

The Voidlings are easily countered and not reliable. Your only AD using "Spell" is basicly nullified by one teammate around who just kills the Voidling.

Not really. Voidlings are more tanky than you expect. Also, if you manage to have two voidlings at once and you ult squishy target, or even just put your E on them, I doubt somebody will be able to kill those voidlings before they completely destroy your target.

AD Mazahar is only good in 1v1 or in Teamfights for his Ultimate, but at that point I would prefere Warwick...

There will always exist alternate picks. Btw, Warwick won't kill towers and other objectives so fast ;)

I dont doom non meta jungling.

Reading your previous comments, it seems you do, but maybe I overinterpretate what you were saying.

43161549_DEL3 votes

{quoted}

actually it was ad and attack speed fizz. it depended on matchup, teamcomp, enemy teamcomp and how the match was doing. his ad damage still become really significant due to his onhit as well. Please get your facts right before reposting your previous post as an argument then upvoting it.

Puppet33r3 votes

I was playing ad jungle malza for the majority of season 3 in rankeds (he worked wonders with spirit items... not so much with new machetes and talismans) and the only thing I got was the occasional "wtf", but rarely anything more then that.

Vicvictorw3 votes

I've noticed that Jungle's the biggest thing people will bitch about off-meta picks in.

Nobody seems to care what you bring to support with; I guess they're just glad you're willing to support.

Randomonium3 votes

I been on both sides of the coin for this. Yeah you should be allowed to do off-meta stuff in normals but you should have at least practiced it in a custom game first (especially when jungling so you can optimize your first clear.) When I play off-meta stuff and people complain about my picks I let them know that I've done custom games and I have a plan and that I'm not trolling. That usually calms people down a bit. It can also really help to talk up your team and be friendly with them prior to locking in your off-meta pick so their first impression of you isn't a "troll" pick. Its those people who insta-lock Teemo ADC with ignite/exhaust who don't say a damn thing in champ select that scare the crap out of me.

Noam Braumsky3 votes

As someone who's played dozens of games on ad Malzahar in the jungle, I can confirm this happens. I don't get too much crap for it but it's not uncommon. I'd encourage you to try it more (his clear is insanely good) and just ignore everyone else.

Shahamut3 votes

Add me in game. Find more chill peeps. Have fun :-)

High53 votes

I love Overload Malz and have done AD Malz. However, I'd be annoyed with someone trying it out for the first time on a free week too.

People forget, when they fail on a non-meta pick, they're also wasting 9 other people's time.

Boulderox2 votes

Bots and custom... Please... That way you know they work, and when they cuss you out, you put them in your place with your gameplay and you steamroll them.

Lajinn53 votes

{quoted}

Bots and custom... Please... That way you know they work, and when they cuss you out, you put them in your place with your gameplay and you steamroll them.

Never say to practice something you want to play seriously in bots. You could play AP Talon and steamroll a game in bots, the bots in this game are fucking terrible

Boulderox6 votes

So what, at least there is a baseline that you can learn how something works, even bots. So if I run into a game doing jungle ad malz after you saw it on a video is justifiable? I understand where you and your team comes from and seeing as you HAD no previous experience with it as there was no info given other than you saw it on a video... It doesn't help your case when defending yourself. Bots anything can happen ues, but it's not to go mlg, as a jg its baseline used to see if you CAN clear with conditions close to normals, bots you can have leashes and see how he needs to gank even against braindead bots still has baselines. Vs solo custom where you may not be able to clear once alone but is really good past first clear. Jumping stright into normals and assuming getting your shit kicked in due to negative attitude of teammates and little knowledge of the playstyle of malz jg don't help the situation. You need to test shit to make it viable, hell ad maalz is doable, why not jg, but you can't assume you know how to do it from watching a video.

Captain Aishi2 votes

these posts always confuse me... I must be very lucky with matchmaking because i've never been raged at for weird picks.. and i'm someone who jungled Ashe and Katarina in seasons 3-4... even did a couple of games of jungle Azir and the people in game were cool with it (though sad that i was getting smashed by the enemy lee sin)

Count Zubat1 votes

I am also most of the time quite lucky, I was playing some jungle Mordekaiser lately and to this time, only one person was a bit sceptic about my pick, but that guy didn't tell me he's gonna report me or troll or something. But when suddenly, in one champion select I met so many people salty about my pick, willing to report me... Well, I thought it would be good to share what happened, to raise awareness and make an appeal: give people chance and don't flame on them for doing something off-meta.

UtilityPunk1 votes

I know that from time to time, there'll be premade teams of 3-4 trolls in normals. Usually they'll work together to make the game a nightmare for whoever they're playing with. And they'll all usually be about the same lvl (often 5 or 6).

I had one match where 2 players were feeding, one afk'd for 15 minutes and everyone except me was trash-talking everything in /all. Thankfully the opponents were very inexperienced, so I managed to carry the game with the help of the one team-mate who was still playing to win. There'd been a lot of stupid surrender votes that match when I had us up 3 dragons and we still had most of our lanes pushing with merged waves.

ƒoes2 votes

I would just like to say this; so many people in Draft think that is actually Ranked. If you want to break the meta, I wouldn't suggest Draft because there's so many people who take it way too seriously there.

But if you're looking for something fun to do, try AP Devourer Lucian jungle. My friend tried that and did better than the enemy midlaner, who, by the way, was a Plat 3 Azir main against a Yasuo. Also, he was playing AP Lucian in Bot, his support DC'd at the beginning of the game (never came back), and he actually managed to go legendary in a 1v2 as AP Lucian.

Count Zubat3 votes

Funny thing: just as champ select started, one of those guys actually asked if this is normal or ranked, so everybody knew it was going to be normal game.

DeynaTaggerung2 votes

I think it's also kind of random whether there's any backlash. There's a lot of people that are fine with strange picks...and then there's some people that aren't. Don't let those people put you off. For example I've been playing a lot of Zyra mid lately(she's actually really strong but underpicked) and didn't get anything but a few raised eyebrows for 20 ranked games. And then randomly one game I had my entire team freak out like yours did, the best thing you can do is just calmly reassure them it'll be ok and go ahead anyways.

Autrah Fang1 votes

kinda messed up when you think about it... since Zyra was originally designed to go mid, but people went support with her cuz of reasons i can't remember off the top of my head (i think it was her poke and her CC/peel but eh)

now since support Zyra is "meta" for her, people will freak the hell out if you don't play her that one specific way.... makes me sad honestly...

DeynaTaggerung1 votes

It's because C9 started playing her support. So for a time she was both, then Riot decided she should be more of a support and nerfed her back in pre-Season 4 to have less damage and more utility. So everyone assumed that she was dead as a mid laner. Even I thought so at the time, but some people recently proved to me that she is in fact still a good mid laner, and in fact very strong. Yeah, it's really sad

DU Baymax2 votes

I know right. I mean, if I want to play adc thresh, I fucking will if it's normals. What, you think I'm trolling? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize we weren't allowed to have fun in this game -_-

some people are fuckwits that need to take a chill pill and have some fun

Quort2 votes

I like Morganna Jungle! :3

DarkDeamonDragon1 votes

You should try Teambuilder for more consistent acceptance. If a team has been waiting long enough they'll take whatever comes up.

I've played AD Malz top lane before and it was super fun! Don't be discouraged by those who don't want to have the fun of experimenting. Jungle Nami is also a barrel of laughs with waves coming out of the jungle.

Shadow Savage1 votes

I've done it before. It can work! Your AA range is good, and your voidling scales 100% with AD. Just gotta spawn your voidling before gank, Ggwp

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