Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

@Riot So, why exactly is Mordekaiser a Marksman?

Count Zubat··18 votes·3,589 views

Patch 6.1 brought some big Mordekaiser changes, which most of them were good imo. But there's one, very subtle and odd change made in this patch. The change of Mordekaiser's class from Mage/Fighter to Marksman/Fighter. Yes, Mordekaiser became the first melee markman (I'm not counting Jayce because of his Mercury Cannon form, and besides, markman is his secondary class). How did melee champion become markman, the class defined as:

** ranged** attacker that sacrifices defensive power and utility to focus on dealing strong, continuous damage to individual targets.

Taken from LoL Wikia.

Let's just put an emphasis on word "ranged". How is Mordekaiser ranged? Most of his damage comes from melee, while his E and R have ranged, it doesn't make him a ranged champion, let alone marksman. Another part of our definition: "sacrifices defensive power". By what means Mordekaiser sacrifices defensive power? It's completely opposite, well played Mordekaiser is indestructable monster rushing into the middle of enemy team. He has his shield, he has his W and ultimate heal just to stay as long in fights as possible. The only part that matches Mordekaiser is: 'sacrifices (...) utility to focus on dealing strong, continuous damage". Yeah, this can be said about every Juggernaut: they have near to no utility, but deal huge amounts of damage. IN MELEE!!!

So, I ask any rioter: why this change was made? There's nothing of markman in Mordekaiser and you won't fool anybody about that. What is the point? To emphasize on him being a duo laner? If yes, then you are missing the point. Wasn't Mordekaiser's rework aim to show that non-marksman champions can be played bottom lane to compete against markmen? Then why change Mordekaiser's class into a markman? He is fighter, juggernaut, immobile, tanky melee damage dealer, not ranged, defenseless damage dealer.

Btw, the title of "Destroyer" fits Mordekaiser much better than "Pathfinder", I would even say that word "destroyer" defines him...

30 Comments

Stars Shaper6 votes

Lame change to make ppl in Team Builder not thinking you are trolling because you can say "Morde is a MM now"... Revert it or at least make him a FIghter/MM

Count Zubat1 votes

I thought of that argument too, but then let's not forget that team builder is getting replaced with dynamic queue.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I know, but Riot isn't famous for reverting things done horribly (see his Reowrk to begin with).

Malicious Metal6 votes

To be fair, MM is always a Mordekaiser^^

Stars Shaper2 votes

You got me xD

Btw, have you tried the 6.1 Morde top? :3 I'm haivng my nice spree of wins.

Malicious Metal3 votes

I have, played him thrice. 9/3/8 7/2/9 15/3/11

Won the first and the last but had a blast in 100% of my games.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Nice :)

My scores are a bit worse expecially since I still have to know better the matchups but untill now I had one lose (jungler went afk at minute 2) and 3 wins. One of which I had 0 dragon pets in 4 dragon kills (thanks team -_-) and I had to carry out objectives because my team was always trying to fight them 4vs5 in the jungle against a Bard and a Vayne.

Got to say that a major help came from the shield decay, I don't have to push hard a lane if I want my defenses to be up.

Malicious Metal4 votes

Funny how half a second can be so helpful

Maximum Morde4 votes

Because when he hits you with his mace he's leaves a bit mark on your head.

IronwallJackson2 votes

The term "marksman" is what Riot uses instead of Attack Damage Carry, because the latter doesn't exist in LoL the way it does in Defense of the Ancients. It's a term that means whatever Riot wants it to; the wiki's definition is irrelevant.

I'm actually quite bothered by people quoting the community-created wiki to argue about design. Everything it presents other than direct quotes from Riot and/or raw data is something that was interpreted and then presented by some dude who edited the page.

Stop getting hung over something as superficial as role designation and titles; those things only have meaning insofar as we (or Riot) assigns it,

Count Zubat2 votes

Okay, so I'm gonna give the Wikipedia definition:

A marksman, or sharpshooter, is a person who is skilled in precision shooting, using projectile weapons, usually with a rifle but most commonly with a designated marksman rifle or a special application rifle, to shoot at long range targets.

Let's ignore the part with rifles, 'cause not every marksman in League has those, but still, by the definition, "marksman" is someone who is shooting/using projectile weapons in order to take down targets from distance.

While it's true that the class doesn't have any influence on balance, this change can be confusing for players, it just lacks clarity. Imagine new player, picking Mordekaiser in free rotation. He sees that his class is "marksman" so what does he expect? Probably that he is gonna attack from range distance. Well, nope, he's melee. I would be super confused.

IronwallJackson4 votes

The point I was trying to make, aside from the fact that quoting the LoL wiki is often unhelpful, is that that the word itself unimportant in the extreme. Morde could be set as Baker/Fighter and it wouldn't make any difference. The word's definition is only important in the sense that it gives an idea of what a champion is supposed to do. What actually matters is what the roles mean in the context of the game.

"Mages" are pretty much just "squishy, damage-oriented AP casters." Similarly, "tanks" are something like "highly durable champion with significant CC." A Marksman/Carry is "champion who takes towers during sieges and also kills tanks," or something.

What you should take away from this is that your concern should be "what does Morde do?" not "what are they calling him these days?"

Count Zubat1 votes

Well, I already said what Morde does in my post (charge into enemies and dish huge amounts of damage while sustaining himself). I'm pretty sure he nearly never attacks from range. Yes, he is quite good at taking down turrets, but if that's so, we could even name Shaco a marksman because he is really good at destroying them. Imo, Mordekaiser should be either just pure fighter, or fighter/mage, I can agree that mage isn't exactly best fitting as his main class (at least since rework), but still it fitted much better than Marksman.

IronwallJackson1 votes

Look, the shortest possible answer to "why?" is "because Riot reworked Morde to work well in the place traditionally occupied by more traditional ADCs like Trist, Cait, etc." To elaborate on this, this fact that Riot slapped that label onto him means that they're trying to communicate that his role in a team comp is likely to be "take towers during sieges and kill the enemy tanks." Range isn't an issue.

Also, Shaco (along with anyone else you care to mention that isn't a Marksman) doesn't get the same treatment because he's an assassin first and foremost, isn't at all balanced around bot lane duo-laning, is generally unsuited to do a Carry's job, and because Riot doesn't want to steer people in the wrong direction by giving them bad info.

Count Zubat2 votes

Mordekaiser's rework was supposed to show that non-marksman champion can go bot lane and compete against marksmen, so what sense does changing Morde's class into a freaking Marksman has? If from now on, we are going to identify marksman as someone who destroys towers easily and kills tanks, just imagine how many champions goes under this label. Marksman is someone who deals consistent damage from DISTANCE using mainly auto attacks. He doesn't have to be AD: Teemo and Azir are also marksmen. But not Mordekaiser, it just doesn't have any sense, he attacks from melee range, he is a Juggernaut.

ZGM Dazzling2 votes

Then change the name from marksman to something else. Because no stretch of your imagination will help you visiualize mordi as a fucking MARKSMAN. lmfao.

DrCyanide1 votes

Riot's own description of Marksmen can be found here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/guide/roles.html

These champions deal large amounts of consistent, rapid-fire damage to enemies from a safe distance. They often employ the help of Supports to stay alive, as they are fragile and require time to build up their attack strength over the course of a game.

To recap, key points:

  • Consistent damage
  • Safe Distance
  • Fragile
  • Scale up over time.

The Wiki's description is accurate enough.

Baron of Bread4 votes

Here is a definition that Riot has on their League webpage:

These champions deal large amounts of consistent, rapid-fire damage to enemies from a safe distance. They often employ the help of Supports to stay alive, as they are fragile and require time to build up their attack strength over the course of a game.

fractalfantasies2 votes

It's confusing to a new player, but you need to understand context is important.

League's role of 'Marksman' implies you are the gold-selfish component of a duo bot lane

Zyorhist2 votes

he's not a marksman...he's an ad caster at best. there is a significant difference.

MrSlowDie2 votes

because they want advertise morde bot there's no other particular reason and I don't think there's a need to complain about it, since how riot define a champion's class won't affect your playstyle, if you want play him top or mid, that's okay. The fact that morde is now a marksman doesn't change your preference

Count Zubat2 votes

It may cause confusion for players who play Morde for the first time. Tell me, who do you think off when you hear someone is "marksman"? I think off somebody who attacks solely from range, and that's what potential new Morde players will think off before they play. Then, the game will start and they will be completely confused.

I know it doesn't affect my playstyle even a bit, but it's just complete lack of clarity.

MrSlowDie2 votes

it may cause confusion for new players, but it may cause acceptance of morde bot from new players, since marksman is identical to bot lane 90% of the time. When I first play league, I thought marksman as "Riot's way of saying 'bot lane champion that is not support'"

and at least morde marksman is more logical than xerath assassin.

La Barbotte2 votes

its just riot shoving down our troat their idea of bot lane that the player base prove to be ineffective

Habitz1 votes

Perhaps marksman because his ult will more than likely bring in a ranged champ or dragon and to also acknowledge he is intended to be considered as a not-troll bit carry.

On a different not if you look at the new champ select you'll see how they avoid the term ad carry or marksman altogether. Instead using the terminology "bot" for that role.

Count Zubat2 votes

The ghost isn't a good argument as to why he should be considered marksman. It is situational, you won't have ranged ghost all the time, and you can get also melee ghosts. You can't name someone marksman just because he can have ranged pet, it's like we would start calling Annie or Malzahar "fighters" because they summon pets that fight in melee.

Habitz2 votes

Hey now I didn't label him as marksman, I was just telling reasons it could be and those are the only two that came to mind.

And to reiterate my second thought its to remind people that they redisigned him to got bot with a support as marksmen traditionally do.

Count Zubat2 votes

Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you or something. I just wanted to point out how this argument is valid. I know that this is only your speculation on why this change was made, I also thought of this reason.

Habitz2 votes

Not a problem it's definitely silly. Perhaps they should use terminology like companion champs or something along those lines to signify/recommend him to be played with a support vs using steadily outdated allusion to marksmen go bot lane to suggest people play him bot

NegusInParis1 votes

I know that some people hates logic, but atleast can we have this logic in game?

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends Players
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous860 comments
2,611
votes
Rewards for positive play
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous19,712 comments
1,337
votes
I don't like Boards
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous324 comments
809
votes
STOP ALLOWING LEVEL 1 ACCOUNTS TO SEND FRIEND REQUESTS!!!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous291 comments
679
votes
Wanting to do something special for an awesome friend. Riot, please help? <3
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous220 comments
614
votes
People that are telling others to kill themselves has to stop! Please help me get this noticed!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous605 comments
600
votes

More by Count Zubat

The way Morde was adapted into duo lane is flawed and broken designwise.
Gameplay41 comments
56
votes
Does anybody else think that Titanic Hydra...
Gameplay71 comments
54
votes
So, I wanted to try out AD Malzahar jungle today...
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous76 comments
44
votes
Daily reminder to everybody...
Gameplay11 comments
12
votes
So, Talon's silence got removed because there was no counterplay against him.
Gameplay5 comments
7
votes
I hate Keystone Masteries.
Gameplay9 comments
6
votes