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[Debate] Champion Archetypes---Running Out

Sir ArmaMalum·4/24/2014, 10:54:04 PM·4 votes·1,660 views

Hello and welcome to my weekly (at least that's what I shoot for) [Debate] post. In this post series I outline a subject with LoL, and encourage people to post their own opinions and views about the subject. I hope to spark intelligent, civil and open-minded debate amongst the community. Just in case you don’t know how to do debate that here are the guidelines:

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#####Want to help decide what topic comes next? Well you can! Poll below!

http://i.imgur.com/UoqZNlu.png “Archetype”?

An archetype, in this context, is a certain origin of a known pattern of characteristics blended together. Examples can be characters like Dracula, Frankenstein, Sherlock Holmes and other well-known assets that ‘set a standard’. This is not to be confused for a stereotype which is a collection of terms themselves.
So to summarize….

| Archetype | Stereotype |
|-
| Marilyn Monroe | “Dumb” Blonde |

Archetype - the original pattern or model from which all things of the same kind are copied or on which they are based; a model or first form; prototype.

http://i.imgur.com/mASLEtZ.png Why does this matter?

So, in short, League is steadily running out of ‘niches’ for champions. Certain archetypes are used as base models for new champion ideas, like how Vel’koz is an archetypical Beholder or Shyvana is an (somewhat) archetypical western dragon. But these are not limitless.

Sure Riot could bring in a veritable army of dragons and trolls with different kits but that won’t happen. Each character has to have their own niche, and every time a new champion is brought in that’s another niche filled. It may not be a problem now, but as we slowly but surely see more relaunches than releases we can already see the result.

http://i.imgur.com/sxlqsLY.png The Question(s)

  • Are you worried about this at all? I’m not trying to fearmonger here, it’s perfectly fine to not care.
  • Do you feel that this will impact League in the future? By how much?
  • What are some archetypes that you like that aren’t up in live yet? (This one will be fun)
  • Who (Live champs) would you like to have their archetypes altered? (i.e. Sion re-work)

http://i.imgur.com/60hYJVF.png My Personal Take

I don’t think it’s a problem currently but I feel like once it becomes a problem it will be huge. I’m more than certain there are quite a few upcoming champions being worked on as we speak to provide a nice buffer.
However, as Braum being a perfect example, I wouldn’t be surprised if inspiration is being drawn more and more heavily from Fan Champion Concepts as time goes on. Right now, I believe, is a perfect time to throw out champion concepts and ideas, as the niches fill up the community itself will be the best think tank imaginable. It may not get champions out any faster, but as long as we have an active and gifted playerbase willing to create their own characters League can keep bringing in new content far into the future.

A few archetypes I haven’t seen just yet:

  • Dancer
  • Draco-mancer (Dragon Mage)
  • Blacksmith (I don’t think Poppy counts, imho)
  • Historian

And in other news.....

This my 10th [Debate] Post! Woooo, milestones!

###Previous: Perfect Imbalance

###Next: Community Responsibility

###All [Debates]

20 Comments

Remlap12234/24/2014, 11:44:36 PM6 votes

Where's Rengar's daddy? No seriously, Riot just gave us some very vague shadowing on this "legendary hunter" and just left it at that. I'd love to see a big game hunter marksman that is a tank killer.

ModCaptainMårvelous4/25/2014, 2:15:29 AM4 votes

I honestly doubt this is a problem. There are so many archetypes to draw on that it's really, really easy to never "run out" of them. On the same topic, however, I hate the idea of singular archetypes. Same way I hate the website TV Tropes: Completely neglecting every original and unique aspect of a story or character to boil them down to the most simplistic form in an effort to let anyone relate to it without having to invest effort into it.

Asides, there are TONS of unique ideas I've seen the community propose.

Dax Ayrton4/25/2014, 4:31:35 AM3 votes

This is a really interesting topic: personally, I think there isn't a foreseeable end to the amount of unique champs they can make. Even though they may run out of "archetypes" (as you define them), there are near infinite combinations of archetype + personality + kit + background.

Maybe the "brave knight" archetype occupied by the noble and suave Garen, who is also a tank from Demacia, can later be occupied by a grim, dark knight from the Void, who is a fighter with higher DPS.

As to the "archetypes", I feel we are missing:

  • A beastmaster, with "pets" like Yorick but with more personal affinity to each.
  • A dancer, as you said, with mobility, buffs for allies and debuffs for enemies.
  • A dual-wield swordsman, with switchable swords.
  • A gunslinger with ACTUAL emphasis to his guns (maybe his resource bar being bullets)
  • A modern version of a special ops soldier (think, Solid Snake).
Rubitonabuilding4/25/2014, 2:06:30 PM1 votes

I'll just leave my champion concept list here.

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/fancreations/fHYhs2nB-champion-concept-rubitonabuildings-champ-concept-list

I'll list off all the new archetypes that I (one person) have come up with in the past couple of months:

Kombol is a giant

Rikur + Raena are goblin siblings (with kits based on gold, Rito plz)

Erik is a hardcore blacksmith (as you requested)

Montgomery is a toy soldier

Kami is made of paper

Chandelle's kit revolves around candles

Hannibal is a frickin hologram.

Dag is a big-horned sheep

Vishnu is a nuclear robot

Midas is another gold based champ (Rito plz)

Zhonya has an electric whip which makes her ranged melee (the only previous ranged melee I can think of is Thresh)

I'm absolutely not worried that Riot will ever run out of archetypes. The possibilities are virtually limitless in a universe such as Runeterra. I'm working on a mathematician champion right now lol, and I have a librarian champ queued up and ready to post (kind of a historian I guess?).

So no, this will probably never be a problem.

KyonHB4/25/2014, 2:21:35 PM1 votes

A Bishi...'nuff said. (Ezreal doesn't count)

Cro0034/25/2014, 3:56:48 PM1 votes

I'm wondering about the possibility of new roles for champions to fill.

Right now, there's the Support (provide utility for their team like Soraka ), Heavy Melee (Tanks like Sejuani JarvanIV ), Light Melee (Assassins Akali Kassadin ), Regular Melee (Fighters like Olaf ), Long Range Casters or High Damage Dealers (Champs like Xerath Ashe ), Close Range Casters or High Damage dealers (Annie ). Combat roles are important considerations for Champions and their abilities.

New Champions, Abilities, Masteries, Runes, Items, Maps, or Systems could open up new niches for champions to fill.

We don't have Yin/ Yang Champions or opposite twins.

We don't yet have a true non-human Dragon Champion.

We don't yet have a true Elementalist of some sort.

We don't yet have a true Mad Scientist-- Heimerdinger is not evil; Ziggs is just crazy

We don't have abilities that link two or more people together- Braum's kit is the first that makes a real cooperative connection between two or more people

One skill that this person suggested in http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/fancreations/iHMb3BHJ-champion-concept-vishnu-the-destroyer-of-worlds will work wonders

There's not a true Summoner-- summons one being of some sort to fight for it semi permanently.

Although Quinn and Annie ults, and Malzahar Voidlings are loose similarities. Yorick is the closest one, but his summons are not permanent.

But this new champion's summon is controlled by the player.

Ashdown4/25/2014, 5:29:38 PM1 votes

Don't we already have a dancer? I mean, I believe in Orianna's lore, there's a reason why she makes very dancer-like movements when she fights. Orianna

"Though Orianna had incredible talent for dancing, she was deeply fascinated by the champions of the League of Legends."

Or perhaps are you thinking of something more literal? I think Orianna fits as a dancer, but I guess also a little of something else.

XEK Zorua4/26/2014, 2:41:14 AM1 votes

This inspired me to think about a previous idea that I had for a champion a while back, take a look

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2404qt/champion_archetype_concept_soccer_player/

Thoughts?

Zeralyos4/26/2014, 9:28:17 PM1 votes

I think we need a champion who fights with weaponized sound, and I don't mean like Sona. She fights with the power of music, what I want is someone who attacks people with raw, discordant sonic energy. I'm thinking of something like a humanoid insect from a hive in the plague jungles, who would be a burst APC or an ADC.

the Anarchit3cht4/27/2014, 7:23:03 PM1 votes

I don't think you quite understand what an archetype is.

Hyrum Graff4/29/2014, 7:39:41 PM1 votes

I don't think that running out of archetypes is going to be a direct problem. I think the more pressing issue is that a champ's playstyle tends to revolve around their archetype - creating champs with unique playstyles, I think, will be the largest upcoming challenge. And I agree, the community will likely be a great resource for this.

Toso Tea4/25/2014, 12:20:22 AM1 votes

We need a Harpy.

A puppet master / control mage. ( A Mage who controls Golems would be amazing )

Someone who is very androgynous / flamboyant who is smart ( think Szayel from Bleach, Shaiapouf from Hunter x Hunter, Amane Nishiki from Blazblue Chrono Phantasma )

Some others too, but Riot, we need a Harpy.

The7thKing4/25/2014, 4:34:17 AM1 votes

Cyber Ninja like Raiden from Metal Gear Revengeance, i love that raiden look and that game