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Is it just me or is riot's handling of Player behavior terrible

blacknerdtaku··2 votes·952 views

OK so i logged onto league and got a message "ive been toxic, chat restricted" but in my recent gaming History i have not been toxic at all. and yet here i am once again restricted.

Now let me be blunt here. Ive already been banned. and frankly I deserved It, and thus ive been working on not being toxic since those bans. and the worst I've ever done is argue back at people pissing on me... but does this merit constant punishment? Im not any worse than anybody else. and yet here i am time and time again restricted. without so much as a transcript.

Ignoring me for a second, Don't you think it's really Unfair for us to not get transcripts to what got us in trouble?

I've been Stressing this for a while now, but if I'm getting restricted or banned, the very least you can do is send me the reason why... not just "due to negative behavior"... and do you know why this is unfair? Because it means people have to go on the forums and publicize this. The forums are against naming and shaming and yet we have to come on here and ask the question- and force the transcripts to be made public. and if we really are more toxic than we realize we risk serious bans for akinsg genuine questions. what does this mean?

-people who aren't toxic second guess themselves and are forced to accept unfair punishments at risk of greater punishments.

-people who are toxic never learn exactly what they can improve for fear of greater punishments.

the only other option is go through a terrible customer support option, with tickets and replies that dont actually answer anything and worse can take days to handle. seriously guys? what kind of nonsense is that?

I'm tired of this however, Im personally tired of getting punished and not knowing why. I've put money into this game, and I really wish to enjoy it. im no worse than anybody else on here (and I've been especially good since my last ban to try to be a better member of the community) yet i feel ive been punished to an extreme - and no this isnt just me. the people hit with that awful priority queue feel the same way. Riot, please remember something. We are people. we are prone to getting upset, and not everybody is willing to put up with people messing with them, or arguing or whatever.

it happens. instead of blocking it, try figuring out ways to prevent it.

Another thing I feel is under discussed and is the general point of this post.

Riot's handling of the situation is genuinely Bad, and it got WORSE after the tribunal disappeared (and yes i do find it odd that SOMEHOW, I've lost any and all honors ive had after they disbanded and have been banned twice since). you don't feel like your reports really matter. Ivee sent multiple from genuinely toxic people. and i never feel like justice has been served. yet here i am restricted for seemingly no reason. It's utter chaos and feels unfair to everyone.

as for my chat ban I'm about to go into a game now. but at the very same time I'd actually appreciate feedback on what it is that got me restricted in the first place. If im actually as bad as whatever is punishing me genuinely thinks, and im just a toxic guy who fooled himself into believing otherwise - fine. But im tired of this crap. Show me what i did wrong, and show me some stats.

and finally a question... what's the point of this honor system, if i still get in trouble after being honored by teammates FOR LIKE 80% OF MY GAMES?

these things arent clear to the player, so when it happens it leave a bad taste in my mouth

I'm a working man and Put money into my account, so how about you guys stop treating us like children and show us what we did wrong? Player feedback for non-skin related things is awful in this game... it comes off a genuinely lazy, and if it has to continue then what is the point of playing at all?

If I'm really that bad, just show me now and i can stop wasting my time and money trying to enjoy and be a member of the community

11 Comments

Jubbinaut2 votes

Some notes:

Because it means people have to go on the forums and publicize this. The forums are against naming and shaming and yet we have to come on here and ask the question- and force the transcripts to be made public.

This is untrue. You can always submit a Support ticket regarding a ban, and receive your logs privately through that system. However, the logs for chat restrictions are not subject to this same policy, and may not be issued to you (publicly or privately), depending upon the sole discretion of the personnel addressing it.

im no worse than anybody else on here

Since 95% of the playerbase has not received any form of behavioral sanction this past season, the above statement cannot be true.

and yes i do find it odd that SOMEHOW, I've lost any and all honors ive had after they disbanded and have been banned twice since

This is not strange in the slightest. Tribunal bans removed all honor earned up to that point. It's not unreasonable to assume that Riot's manual bans did the same.

and finally a question... what's the point of this honor system, if i still get in trouble after being honored by teammates FOR LIKE 80% OF MY GAMES?

The Honor system and the Report system are completely separate, and have nothing to do with each other.

That said:

Riot agrees that you should be informed about what actions you performed to warrant a sanction. That's why the Tribunal had Reform Cards, and why they are working to bring that system back online. The issue, however, is that without the Tribunal, there is no system to automatically generate those logs for you. Which means that - for each and every player who receives a restriction or ban - someone would have to manually compile appropriate logs, edit them for privacy, and send them off. This time could be used elsewhere, developing and preparing new behavioral systems, upgrading and repairing old behavioral systems, addressing behavioral concerns that cannot be addressed with semi-automated systems, and more.

So the decision was made to provide logs only to those who ask, to minimize the necessary work to address those concerns, and maximize the available work to address the larger concern of.. obviating the need for that work.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

Some notes:

This is untrue. You can always submit a Support ticket regarding a ban, and receive your logs privately through that system. However, the logs for chat restrictions are not subject to this same policy, and may not be issued to you (publicly or privately), depending upon the sole discretion of the personnel addressing it.

you Ignored the part where i mentioned support tickets, which are wholly unhelpful. Last time i bothered i was sent on a loop that bassically told me what i COULD have done wrong

Since 95% of the playerbase has not received any form of behavioral sanction this past season, the above statement cannot be true.

Strawman. Do not forget, no system is perfect... just because 95% of the Community have not received one does not mean one cannot be unjustly sent - hence me comparing myself to other players in terms of toxicity.

This is not strange in the slightest. Tribunal bans removed all honor earned up to that point. It's not unreasonable to assume that Riot's manual bans did the same.

once again irrelevant. I wasn't actually hit until after the tribunal disbanded. and i do know why. I said i deserved them didn't I? But the issue is after the tribunal, punishments were served much more haphazardly

The Honor system and the Report system are completely separate, and have nothing to do with each other.

Not related, but i do believe the two should in fact be linked. it means more priority players get what they deserve vs those who are generally kinder.

That said:

Riot agrees that you should be informed about what actions you performed to warrant a sanction. That's why the Tribunal had Reform Cards, and why they are working to bring that system back online. The issue, however, is that without the Tribunal, there is no system to automatically generate those logs for you. Which means that - for each and every player who receives a restriction or ban - someone would have to manually compile appropriate logs, edit them for privacy, and send them off. This time could be used elsewhere, developing and preparing new behavioral systems, upgrading and repairing old behavioral systems, addressing behavioral concerns that cannot be addressed with semi-automated systems, and more.

This, is COMPLETE Bull. 1: the tribunal may no longer have access to that technology, but why wouldn't Riot themselves?

2: The tribunal was able to take select cases towards your actions and the community issued a Ban.... you mean to tell me they couldn't take those same logs and resend them in a different format for Email Availability? or jut a links to your specific case? What? Plus they were already edited for Privacy. They only listed the Champion's name. And what's more? they stored the cases with numbered links.

3: they manually issue bans anyway.

So the decision was made to provide logs only to those who ask, to minimize the necessary work to address those concerns, and maximize the available work to address the larger concern of.. obviating the need for that work.

It's an excuse. and nothing more. Why? because as I've said earlier the support system is terrible and takes too long to get back to you.... the only way you're getting a definite response is through the forums, where the public shaming happens. They aren't "obviating" anything. It leaves a bitter taste in anybody's mouth to be banned. And even more-so to get awful customer support from it. if you want the banning system to work, then a certain form of consumer trust needs to be formed. Taking the easy way out (and simultaneously causing more issues elsewhere - such as with angry consumers) is not a good reason for anything. It's lazy. And 10/1 more people would be more complacent with their punishments if they could just see where they went wrong. It's basic Classical Conditioning.

  • put a bag over a 3 year old's head then make them touch the hot stove unknowingly - they wont learn to not touch the stove cause they don't know what hurt them, just a general idea (it was hot)

  • if they actually see what got them hurt they intentionally avoid it and all related articles (hot Iorns, Scalding Hot water, Fire, Light-bulbs).

want a more professional example? Try firing somebody from a Job and just say "because you broke our rules" and nothing more, and the only way to actually figure out what went wrong was through a long, expensive, and excruciating court process. would you be very happy?

It's terrible PR and Customer Service. it needs to change.

Jubbinaut1 votes

you Ignored the part where i mentioned support tickets, which are wholly unhelpful. Last time i bothered i was sent on a loop that bassically told me what i COULD have done wrong

I didn't ignore it. I hadn't read it yet, and decided to simply leave it be. I thought about expounding on the point, but decided against it. Allow me to do so here:

It's my experience that the people who have issues with getting what they're after from Support are either a) unclear about what they're after, b) impatient about the time it takes Support to respond through the swarms of tickets they receive with every ban wave, c) impolite or rude in their approach (which tends to go a long way towards ensuring that personnel don't go out of their way to do more than necessary), or d) some combination of the previous.

Of course, as with everything I note as being my experience, your mileage may vary.

Strawman. Do not forget, no system is perfect... just because 95% of the Community have not received one does not mean one cannot be unjustly sent - hence me comparing myself to other players in terms of toxicity.

I don't see how that can be a strawman. I haven't set up or created any form of your argument. I've taken a single piece of your overall discussion and addressed it as it stood. You claimed that you're no worse than any other player. For both your statement and Lyte's statement to be true, 45% of players would have to've been falsely pardoned.

I'm willing to grant that the current systems aren't 100% accurate. I'm not quite so willing to grant that level of inaccuracy without some statements to back it up. Ergo, I'm forced to conclude that the two statements cannot both be true at the same time.

Since Lyte's in a position to offer more valid data on the subject than you are, I'm forced - without substantive evidence - to assume his statement is the more likely to be true.

once again irrelevant. I wasn't actually hit until after the tribunal disbanded. and i do know why. I said i deserved them didn't I? But the issue is after the tribunal, punishments were served much more haphazardly

<shrug> You're the one that mentioned the honor loss. If my statement relating to why that honor may have been lost seems irrelevant in the context of your commentary regarding the loss of your honor, then I suppose there wasn't much of a reason to comment in the first place.

It is, I suppose, very beside your core point, but again: I didn't set the topic. I just addressed it.

Not related, but i do believe the two should in fact be linked. it means more priority players get what they deserve vs those who are generally kinder.

I see no particular reason why they should be linked. To be more clear, I see exactly zero benefit to it, and quite a lot of potential for both abuse and inefficiency.

This, is COMPLETE Bull. 1: the tribunal may no longer have access to that technology, but why wouldn't Riot themselves?

Because it's actually part of the Tribunal system. The Reform Cards were the cases created by the Tribunal. With the Tribunal not properly building cases, it couldn't continue to build Reform Cards. It's not a matter of not having access to the technology. It's that the very systems the technology was built around and requires to function are non-functional.

Keep in mind that the reason the Tribunal was taken down in the first place because it wasn't building cases properly. Not that the reports weren't coming in, or that the reporting system wasn't setting players to be added to the Tribunal, but because the Tribunal wasn't sorting games and building the pages properly. In a very real sense, the Reform Card system was the part that broke.

Here's WookieeCookie on the issue: "I personally love the reform card system and wish it could be applied to chat restrictions, but we won't have it available until the tribunal is re-launched."

2: The tribunal was able to take select cases towards your actions and the community issued a Ban.... you mean to tell me they couldn't take those same logs and resend them in a different format for Email Availability? or jut a links to your specific case? What? Plus they were already edited for Privacy. They only listed the Champion's name. And what's more? they stored the cases with numbered links.

Sure. But they'd have to do so manually. That's a lot of copy-pasting, editing, formatting, and so-on when the system that was designed to handle that automatically is lying in pieces on the metaphorical drawing-room floor.

3: they manually issue bans anyway.

Yes. Yes, that's correct, they do manually issue bans. I... fail to see how that relates.

It's an excuse. and nothing more. Why? because as I've said earlier the support system is terrible and takes too long to get back to you.... the only way you're getting a definite response is through the forums, where the public shaming happens. They aren't "obviating" anything.

If they spend their time getting the Tribunal back in place, and the Tribunal brings with it the automatic generation and e-mailing of Reform Cards, then there's no further need for them to manually generate logs for players who are hit by behavioral systems. Thus, spending their time on the Tribunal rather than in manually generating logs works towards obviating the need for them to manually generate logs.

It leaves a bitter taste in anybody's mouth to be banned. And even more-so to get awful customer support from it. if you want the banning system to work, then a certain form of consumer trust needs to be formed. Taking the easy way out (and simultaneously causing more issues elsewhere - such as with angry consumers) is not a good reason for anything. It's lazy. And 10/1 more people would be more complacent with their punishments if they could just see where they went wrong. It's basic Classical Conditioning.

  • put a bag over a 3 year old's head then make them touch the hot stove unknowingly - they wont learn to not touch the stove cause they don't know what hurt them, just a general idea (it was hot)

  • if they actually see what got them hurt they intentionally avoid it and all related articles (hot Iorns, Scalding Hot water, Fire, Light-bulbs).

want a more professional example? Try firing somebody from a Job and just say "because you broke our rules" and nothing more, and the only way to actually figure out what went wrong was through a long, expensive, and excruciating court process. would you be very happy?

It's terrible PR and Customer Service. it needs to change.

Yes. It does need to change. That is the reason they are working to get the new Tribunal, complete with its ability to automatically generate Reform Cards, back into place.

I appreciate your point, here, but I think you're missing something very important in your seeming desire to spark an argument with me: no one disagrees with you on this point.

  • I agree that Riot needs to get their communication systems back up for their behavioral systems.
  • Riot agrees that they need to get their communication systems back up for their behavioral systems.
  • Random other players who have been sanctioned agree that Riot needs to get their communication systems back up for their behavioral systems.
  • Random other players who have not been sanctioned agree that Riot needs to get their communication systems back up for their behavioral systems.

Seriously. I've never heard of a single person that doesn't want that communication back. They're working on it.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

we agree on a lot, similarly we disagree. but at least, the core point is agreed on

maikokk1 votes

it'd be a good idea to give an example of why an action was taken. on the other hand you seem like the raging type...

seeing as how you wrote a rambling essay on the boards to make a point that could have been expressed with 3 sentences

blacknerdtaku1 votes

it'd be a good idea to give an example of why an action was taken. on the other hand you seem like the raging type...

seeing as how you wrote a rambling essay on the boards to make a point that could have been expressed with 3 sentences

Eh maybe. Maybe not. I dont rage at bad play, but i do so at bad teammates in general (blaming, raging, etc)... if you're 1/11 i wont blame you for it nor will i call you bad...

Now then, the post would NEVER recieve justice in 3 sentences. It's about general bad handling of a situation. think it would? ok lets see

"obama care is bad. It forces healthcare. i cant afford it" Not nearly as powerful as an actual Essay/rant on the topic nor is it as descriptive to the problem at hand- that and I'm a pedantic guy.

disregardable2 votes

How to sum up this post in 3 sentences:

"I have put a lot of effort into being less toxic since my last chat restriction, but Riot has chat restricted me again. I know I'm not the only one in this situation, and Riot's support is not being helpful. Giving me real examples and statistics as reasons for the chat restriction would be infinitely more fair".

blacknerdtaku1 votes

How to sum up this post in 3 sentences:

"I have put a lot of effort into being less toxic since my last chat restriction, but Riot has chat restricted me again. I know I'm not the only one in this situation, and Riot's support is not being helpful. Giving me real examples and statistics as reasons for the chat restriction would be infinitely more fair".

That post leaves out too much - and does no justice to the original...

It's a misnomer on the time I tried to fix my behavior (last ban not restriction)

this watered down version doesn't include the negative consequences of this current system, nor does it question the honor initiative's involvement, nor does it detail Riot's terrible Customer support on the matter, nor does it actually give good detail to the issue at hand. it just says "unhelpful support" and above all, It's bad in representation of my overall point. I don't want them to just show me... they can can simply be on the forums. I want them to start including it with the punishment. I want them to remove the risk of potential public shaming just for asking a question about why it happened in the first place. it removes a lot of grief from the system... and it treats us like adults. Instead of just expecting us to take their words for it, like we're mindless sheep, how about showing us what we did wrong.

the final and worst thing about that Summary is the use of ME over US. Concern for myself is one thing, but this is an issue with the community - not just myself

To get to the root of a problem sometimes the better road is the more articulated one. it tells more about the situation at hand, and it's way more helpful for them to fix the problem than "this is unhelpful" what about specifics? when you write a persuasive essay, do you leave out detail or use more articulated examples? I think like a writer - it's one of my intended career paths. I'm not interested in being brief, I think meticulously, therefore i type meticulously.

---but think back, have you ever seen a TL;DR Notice for anything In the professional setting such as changes in schedules, or presented issues? No? well That's why.

Do not forget - we are their investors. by technicality, they work for us - the consumer. we are responsible for their success and failure... Im not asking them to bend over backwards to do some impossible task im asking for better feedback when it comes to Player behavior (and in general)

Jumping back to Maikokk for a second i should mention something i forgot to type: the length of my complaint doesn't dictate whether or not i rage, it's the content. This is not me raging at riot for being banned or restricted, or whatever. it's me being upset at how poorly they treat the consumers when it comes down to player behavior.

Please get back On topic people.

disregardable2 votes

doesn't include the negative consequences of this current system

It doesn't need to. The consequences are obvious. This has been talked about a dozen times before.

nor does it question the honor initiative's involvement

Why would it, that's completely irrelevant.

nor does it detail Riot's terrible Customer support on the matter

yes it does. See "Riot's support is not helpful". That's all that needs to be said, everyone knows about this issue already.

I want them to start including it with the punishment.

Okay, fair enough. I thought that was assumed, but if we must add it. "Giving me real examples and statistics when notified of punishment for the chat restriction . . ."

'm not interested in being brief

Fair enough. But this giant post filled with rambling sentences is not attracting attention; it's disincentivizing people from reading it. You can TLDR this in 3 sentences. You can give it more than enough justice in 12.

Helix Nebula1 votes

This 3 sentence spill is very boring, bland, and sounds less professional than the op. If it were 3 sentences I would have dropped it and moved on. I prefer the longer version, gives more depth and realism than to a bland childish complaint that's 3 sentences. Anyways, I agree bring the tribunal back or something, don't automate this

sG Exile1 votes

Of course it is.

These dumbasses can't even handle to run their game properly without it fucking up on a daily basis and it still has bugs and issues from months ago.

They couldn't handle pissing in a fucking urinal, nevermind a game and it's community.

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