For the Love of god and all that is holy LOCK NEW OR REWORKED CHAMPS FROM RANKED GAMES

blacknerdtaku··78 votes·6,706 views

Seriously, this pisses me off to no end. Every time something shiny and new comes out people immediately jump into ranked to play him. problem being? THEY ALL SUCK. Can riot please implement a lock system? so for one week these champs are forbidden to be used in ranked games? that way people wont screw others over big time?

this applies to reworks too. I shouldn't lose because Joe Schmoe decided to try new Sion (who sucks btw) in ranked. or whatever new champ comes out. all you do when you do that is hurt your team. if you're gonna buy a new champ learn how to use him for a week, thats usually they hype cooldown time anyway.

70 Comments

DrNova21 votes

This is a really bad idea. Honestly, think about it. If someone is (pardon the rudeness) stupid enough to bring a brand new champ into ranked without practicing to see if he's worth playing with ranked, they probably arent good anyways. They can just as easily bring some other champ in and suck it up just as bad. I've seen plenty of the games true OP champs come in and be played like garbage.

Limiting champs isnt going to lower your frustration. Its just a target for your anger, which would probably be there anyways.

blacknerdtaku6 votes

This is a really bad idea. Honestly, think about it. If someone is (pardon the rudeness) stupid enough to bring a brand new champ into ranked without practicing to see if he's worth playing with ranked, they probably arent good anyways. They can just as easily bring some other champ in and suck it up just as bad. I've seen plenty of the games true OP champs come in and be played like garbage.

Limiting champs isnt going to lower your frustration. Its just a target for your anger, which would probably be there anyways.

is it really? if the person does this their either being cocky, it doesnt have to be their first time but perhaps after one normal game they feel like they can carry in ranked with him? no matter how good you are you still have to get used to a new champ's mechanics. some people believe they can just try new things in ranked- in which case they'd be better off wth somebody their familliar with.

what would you rather have? a shitty player playing a new champ, or a shitty player playing a champ their more familiar with? which improve your chances? this is a statistical chance, since lol players are so fond of them. and yes. limiting the champ will actually help a lot. one reason. he's brand new. nobody can use him efficiently. why tempt these people to use him in ranked a week when he comes out. does that seem fair to anybody? what could have been a fair game before- now ruined by a random act of stupidity. and nobody should have to contemplate wasting a ban on a new champ whenever a teammate says "hey don't ban [new champ]" THE DAY OF RELEASE

and like i said maybe they did practice a little, ranked and norms are a completely different ball game. they feel confident because they got a decent score in a normal game where their enemy laner afked midway through giving them free farm. my point stands. no new champ should be allowed in the player pool, the same way they dont allow buggy champs in.

Orbv4 votes

His previous point still stands, the ally could take in another champ they have never used before and just purchased from the shop and use that champion in ranked. You even pointed out that normals are a different ball park, so why would it matter if they took them there or not?

The appeal is being able to bring a new champ into a game where nobody else knows how strong they could be. True the player could be terrible, or the champ could be terrible and the player pretty decent. It's no different than watching World's, seeing Zilean dominate, and have someone terribly feed as Zilean because they didn't realize that you need a defend the carry comp.

Bad players will be bad no matter who they play, and if they wanted to try something new, be it a new champ, they would have used one they normally never used regardless. That is the only times it happens, if they obviously wanted to win they'd use their best, but their concern is more with trying new to be able to post "New SION broken gg".

Also there are players who used Sion in the PBE, myself included, who can win in ranked with him, albeit not easily because he's not really that great. It's unfair that some people lose with him and others don't but both need to be punished because the majority are bad players.

Vellich0r1 votes

have you tried out AP new sion yet? its pretty funny, not optimal of course and i wouldnt suggest it in ranked, but max E and the harras is strong, heh.

Toothless Lion13 votes

There's no good explanation for why they don't lock them other than making more money. I mean they do it for professional play, why not for ranked?

12tales2 votes

For the record, the LPL never locks champions, even if they're new or bugged. It's not like that's a ubiquitous feature of professional play - it's just something that Riot and KeSPA do.

Also, there are tens of thousands of dollars and the prestige of entire leagues on the line in professional play. 15 LP are on the line in soloq. The scope is so massively different that any comparison between the two is basically meaningless.

Thugger Goon1 votes

They locked Manplank didnt they? And wasn't Yorick also locked about a month ago?

Narasimha1 votes

For bugs only.

jmlinden71 votes

For bugs only.

Shouldn't riot assume that every new/reworked champion has bugs then?

Pvt Yong Tai1 votes

innocent until proven guilty

you know they extensively test the champion before it goes live, right? they'd like to think they tested it sufficiently and there would be only minor bugs remaining. Of course, sometimes a major bug makes it through and that's when they shut stuff down.

Cassaluna8 votes

O.O

blacknerdtaku10 votes

yes my anus is indeed bleeding. but does that change the argument? or even matter? Saying "oh he's upset" is a fucking given and attributes nothing. it's when people express how upset they are that things change. so if you're just going to be a time waster, go elsewhere..... shoo shoo.

Alma Beoulve7 votes

It only took Riot 2 - 3 years to conduct research and ban free week champions in ranked. Just wait another 2 - 3 years for Riot to [possibly] disable new and reworked champions in ranked.

PatMcGroyn4 votes

I'm okay with new champions being available in ranked matches, and here's the reason why: there are 4/5 people on my team that could pick a new champ that they don't know how to play (the 1/5 who WON'T pick it being me), but there are 5/5 people on the opposing team that could pick a new champ that they don't know how to play. The odds are inherently stacked in my favor.

LeeDark5 votes

Sorry, but this argument doesn't actually work here. It's a good argument for how trolls and leavers aren't actually ruining your games, but in this instance it just makes you a dick.

New and reworked champs should have a "cooldown" period where they are tested on the larger scale and people get used to them. Then Riot can see if anything about them needed tweaking before they make a competitive debut. It's just good policy... which is why it won't happen.

MorikTheMad1 votes

Wait, why does his argument work for leavers/ragers/trolls, but not for people who play a new champ immediately in ranked?

The argument in all these cases boils down to:

  1. I believe player behavior X lowers the chance of a team winning.

  2. There are 5 players on the other team who might exhibit behavior X.

  3. There are 4 players on my team who might exhibit behavior X, because I will never do so.

  4. Thus, behavior X increases my win% overall, as there is a greater chance of it negatively impacting the enemy team than there is of it impacting my team.

I don't see why this doesn't apply in this case, nor why making the argument that it does apply would make PatMcGroyn "a dick".

EDIT: BTW, if you are saying "Just because it actually doesn't hurt my overall performance doesn't mean its a good thing; it sucks when it happens.", then I agree with you that the above argument isn't relevant. It would be better if behavior X weren't possible.

LeeDark2 votes

Basically, yes, to your edit. To not support the policy of turning them off requires one of two attitudes. Either you want to play these champs, and you are a noob like the OP describes, or you aren't and are abusing obviously nerf-worthy champions before they get nerfed (see: release Xin Zhao, for example), OR you don't want to play them, but you want some noob on the other team to do so. Pat McGroyn's post and argument is indicative of the latter. He is rooting for the enemy to have noobs (and, by logical extension, for the enemy team to have leavers and trolls) and that is just a dick thing to do. I'd rather a fair game where my skill is tested. I'd also like to win that game, but I know that won't always happen. The game isn't fun when my enemies get shafted. I get a free win, but it isn't any fun.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

I'm okay with new champions being available in ranked matches, and here's the reason why: there are 4/5 people on my team that could pick a new champ that they don't know how to play (the 1/5 who WON'T pick it being me), but there are 5/5 people on the opposing team that could pick a new champ that they don't know how to play. The odds are inherently stacked in my favor.

This argument has always bothered me. actually for a multitude of reasons. one of them being your chances of getting that new champ are 1/5th lower yes. but. 4/5ths is all it takes.

Also it doesnt account for the other team. This works off an assumption fallacy. It essentially says my enemies are idiots, and only works flat out on paper. but then again what if there are TWO, three, or four people between both sides with this mindset? inherently the odds are in your favor but not in your team's. what if there are other variables? base stats aren't good to base an entire argument off. 4/5 is still a pretty derpy chance- EVEN IF the other team has a slightly higher chance from your sole perspective.

why not just eliminate the chance altogether?

this is why i find the argument doesnt exactly work for trolls, leavers, afks, etc. why? because there is NOTHING that can be done to fully remove it. that's personal behavior. whereas i just gave a solution to these new champs.- don't use them.

Crewsix3 votes

I had a sion jungle in one of my ranked games over the weekend. When he would miss his ult he would go "sorry second time playing new sion!". We won the game but point is it isn't fair to your teammates to play a new or rework champ same week they were released.

12tales1 votes

Would it have been better if he'd suicided on Lee Sin over and over and went "Sorry second time playing Lee!"? Would it be appropriate to prevent players from playing any champions that they're bad at?

ChaosThief1 votes

I think that isn't what he's saying.

"I don't play this champion much, sorry if I feed" Is your example.

I think the intended example was "This champion is new, so everyone who tries him will do bad the first few games! I'll be okay!'

12tales1 votes

They'll do bad because they don't play that champion much.

ChaosThief1 votes

A little more clarification:

Since this champion is new, I can use that as an excuse! - not just the fact that they don't play that champion often.

Treyen3 votes

New Sion doesn't suck for one thing..and for another just because you seem to have trouble understanding how to read 4 abilities doesn't mean everyone does.

soulbanana83 votes

Hardly the point. OP's point is that trying new champs in Ranked right after they're released or reworked is a horrible idea because no one knows their strengths and weaknesses. No one knows what new Sion can REALLY do and how he can work, so OP is saying that disabling these champs in ranked would help them find these strengths in other places than Ranked

DaCush3 votes

I'm sorry but the points being made against the OP are either extremely minimal or just aren't good counter arguments. The only thing this can do for ranked is good. Here are my arguments against the counter arguments:

@DrNova This is a really bad idea. Honestly, think about it. If someone is (pardon the rudeness) stupid enough to bring a brand new champ into ranked without practicing to see if he's worth playing with ranked, they probably aren't good anyways. They can just as easily bring some other champ in and suck it up just as bad. I've seen plenty of the games true OP champs come in and be played like garbage.

I'm sorry but if you "think about it", a bad player playing a champ they've never played before is just going to make them even worse than they already are. I'm pretty sure I, and everyone else here would rather a bad player play with a champ that he's comfortable on rather than a champ he's never played before. This argument hold no leverage. It's the same thing as a good player playing on a new champ and playing worse. It sounds like the argument you are trying to say is that if a bad player were to play on a new champ, they would be just as bad as if they played on a champ that they always play which is false.

@Orbv His previous point still stands, the ally could take in another champ they have never used before and just purchased from the shop and use that champion in ranked.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If it were up to me, I would also take the ability to play a champ that was just purchased in ranked away for a certain amount of time as well. That will probably never happen but that's besides the point, taking away the ability to play a completely reworked champ/new champ will do far more good than bad. That argument is just like saying that Riot shouldn't punish people for being toxic or afk'ing because people will be doing it anyway when the reality of it is that they may not get and catch everyone but it is doing far more good than harm and reducing the toxicity in the game.

@Orbv You even pointed out that normals are a different ball park, so why would it matter if they took them there or not? Bad players will be bad no matter who they play, and if they wanted to try something new, be it a new champ, they would have used one they normally never used regardless. That is the only times it happens, if they obviously wanted to win they'd use their best, but their concern is more with trying new to be able to post "New SION broken gg".

The OP didn't say anything about players not being able to take new champs into norms, in fact that is where they should be taking them to get comfortable using them in a PvP environment. As far as the second point, bad players will be even more bad if they choose a new champ and they most likely would not have chosen a champ that they have never used regardless because the only reason they are choosing this new champ or any other future released champ is because the champs are hyped up and brand new and yet again beside the point. It's better to reduce the chance of them choosing a champ in ranked that they've never used before than do nothing at all.

@Orbv Also there are players who used Sion in the PBE, myself included, who can win in ranked with him, albeit not easily because he's not really that great. It's unfair that some people lose with him and others don't but both need to be punished because the majority are bad players.

True, and I get what you're saying but the fact is that the PBE population is probably less than 1% of the population of the game and it's only fair to sacrifice some time of ranked play for the greater majority of the community and even yourselves so that you don't get a player like this on your team. That's the same thing as saying that the upper class 1% of America are more important than the other 99%.

Have one more that I'll counter argue to finish off on the next post below

DaCush3 votes

@Dysnomian I have four points to make: Firstly, this is already a problem with any champ, at any point someone can just buy a brand new champ and go strait into ranked with them.

  1. Some people may only play ranked. I know (albeit few) some people who predominantly play ranked and so just making them wait an extra week before using the new champ doesn't really solve the problem.

  2. There a people who buy a new champion, play some 10 games over the course of the first few days and learn the champion inside out in half a week, stopping these people who practice lots with new champs indirectly is a bad thing.

  3. It would remove a lot of the hype around new champions. Something that often drives people to spend money on this game is buying the brand new champ (and often the skin). Bit if you weren't able to use them in ranked for a week it might feel like buying him early doesn't really count. Sorry if these feels like a but of rant, but I feel they are all good points. Oh, another thing, like you said, ranked games are completely different to normal games and often to truly understand a champ you need to have played a few ranked games with them. So you would still get the problem after the first week of people trying out new champs and losing horribly in lane because they aren't used to ranked play with them. Thanks for reading.

  4. Already explained this (read above) ^

  5. This is definitely a minority and even so, they can still play ranked. If they want to try out a new champ that was released then they have to play norms (not really that big of a deal for "one" champ). Also, how does it not solve the problem? lol. I just don't understand how that relates to your argument on them only playing ranked.

  6. I can see what you're saying here and "maybe" a week is a little too long or maybe it's just right and it's really not that big of a deal since you can play the same exact game mode in norms. Not to mention there is more than one "normals" (team builder, blind pick, draft pick). My point still stands that the competitive ranked gameplay would be better off holding these champs from this particular mode for a certain period of time.

  7. I don't see how it would remove any hype. The hype is all about "new and different" and getting to play that champ. Norms are the same exact game as ranked except they don't effect your publically shown rank. I'm sorry but I don't see this reducing hype on a new champ in the slightest.

  8. I understand where you're going with this but the fact is that people will be practiced with him thus making the more comfortable using him/her or even making the decision to use him/her or not because the champ might be horrible on release (Gnar, Vel, etc.) Yes, I know that they won't have mastered the champion but the point is that after that week has passed, people will be much better with him/her then on release and their might even be a good item/rune/mastery build that you know works well instead of experimenting and tinkering around with that in ranked competitive play.

I hope everyone gets what I'm saying and if not I encourage you to reply with a counterargument to mine. I also hope I didn't offend anyone with what I said, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

this guy gets it

Krigjer3 votes

Why? Realistically it won't fix anything.

Scenario: 'I want to play the new champ in ranked, but it's locked! Oh well, I'll just play a different champ.' said player doesn't touch normals or bots to practice new champ 'Cool, the champ is unlocked! Time to play him in ranked!'

DollaMenunaire2 votes

They should probably do something sort of like how they handle LCS patching, where they hold some things back until it's been used and abused elsewhere

Q Ball1622 votes

New Sion is a god, bow before him worm.

Serious note, ban him if you're so QQ about new/reworked champions in your game, you don't know if people have played him on the PBE or not.

Kari Arisu2 votes

You should come up with a better argument. The only reason that they should be forbidden from ranked is because of huge bugs that often come with them. (Look at Azir's bugs and Sion's passive bugs.)

People sucking at new champions is not a good reason.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

You should come up with a better argument. The only reason that they should be forbidden from ranked is because of huge bugs that often come with them. (Look at Azir's bugs and Sion's passive bugs.)

People sucking at new champions is not a good reason.

so is that why You aren't allowed to use free week champions in ranked?

WeFlyNoLie2 votes

But how is this fair to people who pick up a champ, actually run through a few normals or dominion games to get a feel for him/her and then when they're comfortable, take them to ranked? I was playing Gnar in ranked only a few days after he was released because I was comfortable with my ability to play him and I did just fine in ranked.

Ranked is a game of luck in the lower tiers, if you get somebody who's dumb enough to play a new/reworked champion for the first time in a ranked game, well, that's just the way it is. Better luck next queue!

Genova Fearbane2 votes

Because something is new doesn't necessarily mean people don't know how to use it. If someone feels comfortable playing something there's no need to have to wait before going ranked with it.

And sion doesn't suck, duo q'd with a friend who played him 3 times in a row, and won his lane every time. Even against this bastard Teemo

RagingHIV2 votes

I think its strange they don't let you play the free for the week champs but will let you dive right into ranked with a guy released 5 minutes ago. I think it has to be a $ thing also.

ZeldaKick2 votes

I just want to say that i agree with OP. I just started ranked, and haven't been effected by it, but i have watched my friends drop because of the same stupid stuff.

Now a lot of you are saying and trying to make point, "What keeps them from buying someone they are unfamiliar with anyway?"

Well, in team builder now, they have it to where it gives you an icon for when you are playing with a champ for the first time, up to five games. Its also supposed to match you with other like players.

They could do the same thing, but block the ones on the account until that person has so many games (wins and losses) under their belt.

Allot more work for Rito, but is possible to do. And if it can be done with stream bots, same concept, then it should be fairly easy to program in.

Ragnar422 votes

Funny Story. Nightblue says that Sion is Freelo. Sooooo.. I'm inclined to think that your entire rant is trash. #dealwithitscrub

Vellich0r2 votes

new sion doesn't suck by any means, be that as it may i agree with the rest of the points.

NoMonku1 votes

It kind of make sense considering they do the same treatment in professional matchs, but I'm split on it. Statistically they player will most likely suck as he is new and they have no idea how to play him, at least not as well as something that has been around for ages. There is the odd chance that they will be good, though, and rofl stomp the other team as they have no idea how to play against him. I just think of it as players picking cheese champs/strats in pro games, when it doesn't work its pretty much over. Main difference in solo q is that if your teammates play well enough, you can get carried and win.

Fisk1 votes

New Sion really isn't to bad... I found quite the opposite... Also not really Riot's call on what people play. That's part of the game.

AtheosisX1 votes

I don't get why this is any different than somebody picking Urgot. Should that be banned as well?

IncomingGh0st1 votes

I actually got carried by a Sion in a ranked game a few days ago Sion

fiqolek1 votes

I agree, new and reworked champs should be disabled for short period of time(one week), you have normal games to play him to knpow hot to play him learn his skills, combo, strength, etc.

336KMlmYm91 votes

I would agree that they should be removed from ranked, but I think a week is far too long. It doesn't take an enormous amount of time to become used to a new champion. Half a dozen games is generally enough to get a strong feel for the champion, which can reasonably be accomplished in 2-3 days. There's a reasonable argument is that there are some players who will take long than that time frame, but no matter how long the wait period you set there's going to be people who won't have practiced but still go into ranked with the champion. 2-3 days is long enough that there's a reasonable argument that a player is proficient with the champion, at which point I see no reason to deny them the champion in ranked just because someone 'might' take them into ranked without experience, That possibility never goes away. Push it back by a couple of days and the risk is already heavily minimized.

SoysauceBananna1 votes

Disagree wholeheartedly. So people don't purchase the champ for a week and then do the same thing you are describing? I think Riot does enough policing when it comes to playing Ranked at all. The only thing keeping you in your ELO is you.

blacknerdtaku1 votes

Disagree wholeheartedly. So people don't purchase the champ for a week and then do the same thing you are describing? I think Riot does enough policing when it comes to playing Ranked at all. The only thing keeping you in your ELO is you.

that doesnt even make sense. so people will avoid buying a champ for a week because they cant use himin ranked? uhh what sense does that make? people will buy him andhis shiny new skin day 1. really think before you speak man

SoysauceBananna1 votes

Disagree wholeheartedly. So people don't purchase the champ for a week and then do the same thing you are describing? I think Riot does enough policing when it comes to playing Ranked at all. The only thing keeping you in your ELO is you.

that doesnt even make sense. so people will avoid buying a champ for a week because they cant use himin ranked? uhh what sense does that make? people will buy him andhis shiny new skin day 1. really think before you speak man

Honestly, I have no idea what you just said.

vortical421 votes

Solution seems simple enough to me. Require at least 10 normal games played with a champion before they are available in ranked play. Not just newly released champions; EVERY champion. That is the bare minimum time needed for a player to pick up the needed mechanics and get a feel for matchups. Using a champion you have no idea how to play is pretty much the definition of toxic. You are ruining the experience of 9 other players just because you are too lazy to practise.

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