Here's my "Narrative" paper I was assigned to write..

Theorchero·10/7/2014, 1:21:36 PM·6 votes·5,141 views

Tldr, I was assigned to write a "Narrative" about the Emma Watson speech she gave at the UN. My teacher is very obviously a feminist. Here's my essay I wrote:

(Starting title removed) Writing Narrative, “He for SHE” movement

Let me start this off by first saying a disclaimer: This is not going to be a popular opinion. The reader might not agree with me. However, my opinions are based in fact, unlike the common feminist movement.

To preface, I’m not a racist, or sexist, I believe in equal rights for everyone, in hard work and sensible ethics that everyone should follow to the best of their ability. Many feminists would argue that that alone makes me a feminist, and I say “No.” The reason being, is that feminism isn’t about equality at all, not really. Let’s break down what the word means. The prefix “Fem” most closely means Female, or Feminine. The suffix “Ism” is for “nouns of action, state, condition, and doctrine”, according to the Online Etymology Dictionary. Now, I am no English major, but that sounds an awful lot like the word actually means the doctrine of women.

I will never support feminism. I will support an actual equal rights movement, but that isn’t feminism. Women are privileged in our society. “But women earn 77 cents for every dollar a man makes!”

Actually, no they don’t. According to both The Daily Beast , and CBS News , the pay gap is actually because of different choices men and women take. Men tend to work more hours, dirtier, more dangerous jobs, and usually take less time off of work due to children. In fact, according to the Wall Street Journal , “unmarried women who have never had a child earn MORE than unmarried men.”

Also, an opinion posted on a public forum under the handle of “Drukyul ” mentioned this movement as well:

“[Off the top of my head I know Emma Watson recently spoke in the UN, trying to find a way to repair the reputation of feminism and show it isn't just about making women superior or protecting women, but about equality.]

...for a UN initiative called HEforSHE, that sums up with "I commit to take action against all forms of violence and discrimination faced by women and girls." It's traditionalist men protecting women, dressed up as feminism, AGAIN. It's really, really, really getting old.”

I can’t agree more. Women are privileged in today’s society. Men have no reproductive rights , receive longer jail sentences , are able to be drafted, and biased against in custody cases . This doesn’t even include social disadvantages, such as being ignored as victims of domestic abuse.

[Sources below. Forums doesn't like references, but you can pretty much figure out what each references in the paper]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/01/no-women-don-t-make-less-money-than-men.html http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/ http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704421104575463790770831192 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4914045&page=4 http://judgybitch.com/tag/do-men-have-any-reproductive-rights/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-hughes/are-custody-decisions-bia_b_870709.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M0MW6ON484 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence


TLDR

Wrote a paper against feminism for my english teacher who has tried to manipulate the class to be about women's rights.

The format looks pretty ugly, but it looks a lot better in Word.

34 Comments

Theorchero10/7/2014, 1:27:49 PM2 votes

bump

Keenano10/7/2014, 1:54:13 PM2 votes

There are many people who identify as feminists, yet have differing, even opposing, ideas. Finding the common interests of 'feminists' would be as difficult as finding the common interests of 'liberals', and you'd do well to acknowledge this. Some self-identified feminists are pushing for a very sexist movement. Other self-identified feminists are pushing for exactly what you said they'd think you a feminist for: "equal rights for everyone, in hard work and sensible ethics that everyone should follow to the best of their ability."

"I believe in equal rights for everyone, in hard work and sensible ethics that everyone should follow to the best of their ability. Many feminists would argue that that alone makes me a feminist, and I say “No.” The reason being, is that feminism isn’t about equality at all, not really."

I can't wait to see the backbone of this statement. Whatever it is, I doubt it'd be something as horrible as misconstruing language with a science-

"Let’s break down what the word means. The prefix “Fem” most closely means Female, or Feminine. The suffix “Ism” is for “nouns of action, state, condition, and doctrine”, according to the Online Etymology Dictionary. Now, I am no English major, but that sounds an awful lot like the word actually means the doctrine of women."

...Look, I don't want you to think I'm being condescending and not constructive here, but this is fallacious reasoning. It's not logically sound to deduce that because the semantics of a sub-groups title can infer X, that sup-group inherently supports X.

You'd do better to rebuke specific arguments from the... less intelligent 'feminists.' The ones that have all sorts of dialect about rape and how men apparently do it to women more than we thought we did. You know, 'rape culture.' Write a paper on the bullshit of rape culture, and maybe also point out the inequalities (like you have) that men have in modern society.

Whitakker10/7/2014, 2:44:43 PM2 votes

I don't think I've ever met two people who agreed on what true "feminism" should be/look/sound like. I believe that's one of, if not the biggest problem attached to this movement.

Do I want women to be able to earn as much as me? Sure. Do I want women to be able to serve their country in all the capacities a man can? Hell, if they prove they've got the stuff, let 'em go for it. Is there a huge bias against women in politics? Well, it sure seems that way nowadays.

However, you must confess that compared to most of the world, women in the "Western" world are treated slightly below the standards we regard to deities. You can call "#firstworldproblems" on me if you want, but it's true.

Trinityunicorn12/7/2014, 7:26:57 PM1 votes

What if it means the doctrine about females? The whole thing got started because there was a LOT of oppression of women. I'm a woman and I don't necessarily even want equality in terms of doing dirty jobs or heavy lifting, if there is a woman who does though, more power to her. I personally like men holding doors for me. I don't feel demeaned by it at all, and at least in my eyes, it shows some sort of consideration about the guy that's doing it. I appreciate it.

There was a concept introduced to me that I thought was very wise, it said, don't be against something be FOR something. That one view is negative and the other is positive and more likely to meet with success.

Not sure why you bring your paper here, nor what you want from the community about it. I will say this, you may feel that some of the ideas your teacher promoted were wrong, and that very well may be, the opposite though may also be just as wrong. We need to learn this isn't a power over another kind of world, but what is going to work is a power with world.

When you get out into the job world, take a look around you, see how many women are in the industries in comparison to men. Yes some jobs are primarily women, but by far you will find this world isn't run by women in equal positions of power and all too often of lesser pay.

On a much lighter note, I found this to be funny and somewhat true in a generic sense. http://physicsgeek.mu.nu/archives/woman1.jpg

Some countries do give men time off, they also can be primary parents, I applaud that, if they are willing to be the nurturers. I will also mention that my ex did NOT want full custody of our daughter....its not that he doesn't love her, he's just ill prepared to raise a child in terms of emotional connection and empathy and understanding. When faced with the option to do so, he declined. Maybe you won't! It is quite rewarding but there is no manual that is correct to follow, and its not nearly as clear cut as most jobs.

My niece and nephew have switched roles and she is the primary breadwinner, she has a doctorate and so they move where her job is. In her industry I'd say there are probably more men and many of them making more money, and some making less. He likes to cook and clean and is nit picky about cleaning so he does the majority of it.

In the video, most likely the reason that people didn't intervene was that they didn't think that the man could be restrained by the woman whereas the perception of the opposite is in general physically valid. As a woman myself, I'd never start a physical confrontation with a man because more than likely he could overpower me.

All in all this isn't really about what you really believe as much as it is an in your face teach kind of paper, I hope anyway. If it is your bias in life, you may find this to be your reality.

Theorchero12/7/2014, 9:41:42 PM1 votes

Men are taught not to hit women because they are weak and they will break them.

How does that refute his point?

This is an example of why men need feminism. If women were taken as a serious threat, you can bet there would be a response.

"Men need feminism!" Please. Feminism is nothing more than women trying to form a matriarchy. They only fight for "equal" rights when it's convenient for them.

Being pregnant is not fun, giving birth is no picnic, and this is anatomy, not privilege.

And having no part of the decision of abortion of your child? She can abort it without your permission and against your consent, or vise versa. It's equally the man's child but often he is neither informed nor even has a say in the matter.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I live in Canada where healthcare is free (Canadian privilege O.o). That being said, there are male drug-based contraceptives, but I don't think they are widely distributed.

We're talking about the US. There aren't any male subsidized contraceptives. There are plenty of places that give free condoms, but that's because of organizations dedicated to safe sex, not the government.

To be fair, men can run off after getting a woman pregnant and leave her with no way to pay for kids. I don't think there are very many mothers out there who decide they want to have children and not work at all.

Go look in a poor area. Plenty of "model" apartment complexes are filled with these wastes of space named "baby mommas." They are either white trash or minority women who refuse to find meaningful work and simply continue to have children so they are taken care of by the government and welfare. Often their children get taken from them, so they just have more, usually having many kids from different fathers. About the fathers abandoning the girl, well find a court that wouldn't immediately grant her child support if she knew the father. Don't even get me started on how child support is more often spent on luxuries than actually taking care of the child and the complete bias towards women in the child support system.

Don't know how that works in America, but that seems kind of silly. Also worth mentioning that there are women in the army, even though it hasn't been that long since they were allowed to be and they are heavily discouraged from it. Women also had to fight for the right to vote.

You're right, it's silly. It's also an example of how feminism isn't about equality, it's about a matriarchy. They don't give a shit about men's rights. You are also rather incorrect in regards of the Army. For the majority of our military's existence, we've allowed women in it. There was only a small time when they weren't. They were denied the capability to enroll in special forces simply because they aren't able to meet the same physical standards men can. We've since rescinded that last bit, but to my knowledge no woman has managed to make the cut as of yet.

This would be an example if it were true (not saying it isn't, but I don't have any information on that subject).

"I don't have any evidence, but I'm going to say you are wrong anyway."

Is this because of the jobs they occupy, or their treatment at their job?

Even at dangerous jobs, women are considered "precious" and are more likely to be assigned safer work than a man.

You may want to think of a reason behind this.

Probably because there are about double the amount of programs for women as there are for men? If a man becomes homeless he's told to work and find a job, a woman becomes homeless she's cared and pitied for.

Again, what is the reason? Is it because it is more accepted for a woman to find help when depressed, meaning that when a man becomes depressed he feels he cannot get help for fear of appearing womanly? (Again, woman seen in a negative context.)

The purpose of him stating wasn't a reason, it's an example of how women live better than men in almost all facets of life.

(These are really the same point.) Probably because it is more socially acceptable for women to ask for help. See above.

Have you ever BEEN homeless? I have. For three years after my 18th birthday. I was thrown out at 2am with no prior notice or provocation. There are so many MORE programs for women it's ridiculous. There was only a single homeless shelter in the city I lived in that would even take in males, and it still had its fair share of women. The women also had less chores and similar responsibilities. Any accusations that a woman gave to a man would result in her being assumed correct. Without hard evidence to the contrary, even an accusation would result in the male being evicted from the shelter. Women don't have privilege, hunh?

Part 1 of my post. I can't type more because of word count, apparently.

Theorchero12/7/2014, 10:14:17 PM1 votes

I don't get that one. It should be fraud at the very least.

But no one cares, because she's a woman.

The owners of nightclubs and bars want pretty women to attract more people (aka the guys) into their bar. They don't get free drinks unless someone buys them drinks. (Don't even try to argue that is privilege, that is some guy trying to get laid.)

The whole "Buying women drinks" is part of the social construct that caters to women. Nice try.

96% of sex offenders are male. Sorry, but females are gonna be less threatening to children.

You act like males don't massively underreport sexual abuse. The numbers are skewed for many reasons.

Women were not originally allowed in university and were discouraged from getting an education. Doesn't it make sense to encourage it now? Native people go to university for free, but that isn't a privilege because the Europeans came over and took their land and ruined their way of life.

Yes, because things people did 100 or 200 years ago whom we had no contact with means that we are responsible for their actions, right? Justifying sexism because of sexism in the past just flips the coin on who's on top. That's all. You are part of the problem.

Video games? (And yes, I get that now Riot is creating more interesting female characters, but one mention of boob-plate from a girl...)

Anita Sarkeesean? Any other dumbass woman who claims to be an expert about video game violence towards women, despite having literally no idea what they are talking about and just cherry picking and misleading game related information to intentionally obscure how the game is played? This is probably the worst point you've made thus far.

This entire point is sexist. Why do we contribute less?

Math, maybe? More likely to be considered for early retirement, women live longer, so they have more time to take on social security and retire earlier so they contribute less. They are also more likely to stop working before they officially retire.

Filed under anatomy, not privilege.

Nice try, except that many health programs and access to special care for elderly are much more accessible to women.

That might be a point if it were true (not saying it isn't, but I don't have any information on that subject).

"I don't like your point, but it's probably wrong because I say so."

Women are stereotyped as the stay at home mom and it isn't a good thing.

Oh no, having to sit at home and watch TV and work a grand total of 2 hours a day (Cooking all meals, minor cleaning) on a typical day is soo strenuous. Sure, there's kids, but after a certain age (which gets lower) they are more easily entertained by technology. Kids use fucking tablets now.

So you think having control over one's own body is female privilege? That is a basic human right.

Except that the child you are bearing isn't just your owns. It's also the fathers, whose rights you callously disregard when you consider an abortion.

Probably because in general, they do not earn as much as men.

Which is because of decisions women make. Not because they are paid less. Does not justify the disgusting alimony cases I've seen. It's an ancient and broken system and should be abolished. Women are able to work in this day in age. Child support more than covers the basic needs of a child.

Not a privilege. They put in a lot of hard work to get equal rights. I would argue that feminism (while it means that everybody should be treated the same, it does have an emphasis on women) does not seem to be taken seriously. There have been enough "men only" spaces. If men are usually the perpetrators of violent or sexual crimes against women, does this not make sense?

Men only spaces? Are you drunk? Name one place I can go that isn't a bathroom that a woman can't. THERE ARE NONE. Feminism is considered a joke because all it does is pander to attention seeking cunts. The reason people don't like feminists isn't because they are feminists, it's because they act like total bitches and are terrible human beings. Do I really need to reference videos of feminists acting like this? And they're the "middle ground" ones too. They didn't even mention killing all men or called them pigs.

And don't even get me started on con women like Quinn or Anita.

Men blame women's behaviour on hormones, I'm not sure what you want from us.

If you act ridiculous in a social or private environment, you can get a free pass by blaming it hormones. Sure we can still blame you, but it's really frowned upon and that frowning is reinforced throughout the social spectrum. Men are told to shut up and go away during that time of the month women have, just to ignore them and not call them out on their shit.

I did not personally say that, but there are not as many as you seem to think.

Really? Not as many as we seem to think? Every presentation or speech or video about feminism I've seen made by feminists don't mention the superior female rights they have. Not a single fucking one.

You say yourself that everyone has privilege. Most of the points here are not privilege either.

"You said that you have privilege. I'm going to disagree with you but still use it as a point to say that we have equal privileges. Except women have less."

Are men not consistently represented in a positive manner? Or do you mean that the only roll a women may fill on TV is a sexy/smart/athletic/multitasking superhuman?

More like women are often betrayed as more reasonable and intelligent where men are more often betrayed as belligerent assholes.

Probably because gender discrimination against women has a long history, whereas against men, it is fairly recent. It's also a reason why men need feminism.

No, men have been discriminated against just as much as women have. Forced to do dangerous jobs, work in the fields, etc, all of the ultimate award of having the privilege of being able to ASK for a woman's hand in marriage. Which is totally unreasonable until he already has a house, job, and social reputation. You sound like you need to do some actual education on equal rights. Not read feminist propaganda.

Yes. Probably because women are not seen as a threat.

Yet if they are and a man defends himself, he's more likely to be assaulted by bystanders.

Women have less stringent standards in fields of law and military.

It is a little. But it's never the less true. Despite being at very similar fitness levels (The physical differences between men and women are only really pronounced at the very high and very low end of the spectrums, those who do religiously and those who don't work out at all.) women have less stringent physical requirements and less requirements of attire.

So can men. There are people who feel sympathy for Darren Wilson, even though he executed an unarmed Mike Brown. Also, as above, women are generally not seen as a threat.

Except how many men can have a judge rule that a percentage of their divorcee's income is now forever devoted to them? How is that fair in the slightest? Because you spent a few years with her and married her, found out she's not who you thought she was, and now she is entitled to a portion of your income and to be forever taken care of by you, for no other reason that she is a women. Not even going to touch the Mike Brown fantasy.

?

I think he's talking about small but very dedicated fan bases being criticized because they're male. IE, bronies.

?

I think he's stating that statement that toes the party line (Feminism, of course) are automatically assumed accurate.

Is it socially acceptable to tell a man to suffer in silence? Also, up until fairly recently, that was what people did.

Actually, it IS socially acceptable. Women could chat in their little groups, tea parties, girls night out, whatever form it is today. Men bitching about women are condemned and judged.

This may be a point. We are more aware that it happens to women.

It's also backed by both society and law. Men are disadvantaged in both, and they are ostracized if they complain.

That seems more like a problem with the law.

Problem with the law, or the society that made it? Women in any kind of custody, paternity, or divorce case have a very heavy bias.

Nastra, you have a couple points, but an awful lot of your argument is restating itself or is not really valid.

Says the person reinstating their points, and say that "men need feminism" when the feminist movement openly doesn't care about their rights.

Drunk Rummate12/9/2014, 9:07:06 PM1 votes

i agree with the sentiment of your post. not every point, but a lot of it.

women have an innate advantage over men in a lot of areas due to their apparent monopoly on reproduction in my opinion. statistics have shown that single women make more than single men, and men work longer hours in general than women to support the family that the women goes home early to take care of.

and then you look at ease of work. due to genetic differences you will see that a lot of male dominated work is hard. even in retail stores you will see the women up front working the cash register, while the men work in back lifting boxes and restocking. obviously most women don't have the physical prowess to perform the latter efficiently, but why should men be forced into the position that's regrettably worse simply because of their gender? its fine on the surface because logically it makes sense, but then you look at wages and the women are being paid the same for the easier task, which doesn't make any logical sense.

people should be paid for what they bring constructively to society. women often prove they have a lot to offer. they earn those high wages. but do single women deserve to make more than a single man for similar, and sometimes easier tasks? because statistically they do make more.

Theorchero12/9/2014, 9:54:03 PM1 votes

I fucking hate these forums. I can't even edit my message because it breaks the post button.