B+ for going 0/0/11 as a support (Zilean)

Earthlord Jazz··111 votes·6,711 views

When crafting comes out and people are rewarded with loot for getting an S, what is my motivation for playing support when Riot doesn't think doing my job as a support is important?

Edit: Here's the game that was support Zilean http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2097337797/203781211?tab=overview

Here's the match I played immediately after as Cass which I got an S+ http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2097410673/203781211?tab=overview

I feel like for both games I played my ass off and performed at a high standard. It just seems like Riot rewards better ranks to playes with kills. I get S on Bard quite often because his meeps were buffed to the point that with item 3092 I can often kills on squishies.

I'm just highlighting this example for Riot to see so hopefully they'll reevaluate what the grading system for supports. FOR EXAMPLE, BEING MORE FORGIVING FOR RANKS AS SUPPORT WOULD ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO PUT IN THE SUPPORT ROLE FOR DYNAMIC QUE, WHICH MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT. Or you could give supports smaller amounts of loot for A ranks or something

Edit #2: Here's another game with support Zilean where I DID get an S- (I got 3/2/19) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2097722742/203781211?tab=overview

A lot of people are commenting how the grade is relative to other Zilean players, and that other Zileans have a much higher KDA ratio, thus I should be deserving of a lower grade because 11 assists out of 17 total team kills is only a 65% kill participation, thus justifying my B+ grade. But in my next Zil support game, I participated in 22 out of the 31 kills, which is a 71% kill participation. A mere 6% bump is jump in 2 grades. I credit this jump more to the fact that I had 3 kills rather than a slightly higher KDA, further cementing my argument that kills are worth too much in the grading system

People are also mentioning other things that effect grades, such as wards and objectives to name a few. Let me get this out of the way. As a support, you are very much dependent on your team to land objectives. You could play your freaking heart out as Zilean and still see little results if your team doesn't have the brain power to use their ocular devices when you have Chronoshift on them. As for wards, shouldn't this be a team aspect? I put down 8 less wards in my first game because the game was 20 minutes compared to 25 minutes. What I'm saying here is that while Riot DOES factor these into the equation, but it'sblantaly obvious that kills are worth WAY more to your grade than they should be

154 Comments

DrCyanide26 votes

Riot is comparing you to other Zilean Supports and giving you a B+. My wife's gotten S ranked supports, you can too.

Ave Machina20 votes

Does your wife know you're on the boards saying she's bad at League of Legends

like a casual

Canidae2 votes

The only person who's implying that she's bad is you. The dude's just defuncting this idea that getting S-rank as a support is some impossible feat.

Ave Machina1 votes

Where's your sense of humor, Depression420

Canidae1 votes

It's getting S-rank to farm mastery points.

TeCoolMage2 votes

Is it working?

GhostOfShrimpmas1 votes

So when I got a B+ yesterday for going 1/5/7 as Graves, what does that mean?

Ñapoleoni3 votes

Your got a b+ going 1/5/7 as Graves that's what it means.

Arcade Andrew11 votes

You're being compared to every other zillport. Most of which get CS and kills

Kinjishi2 votes

This. You're compared to all the other Zilean supports on the NA server for mastery ranking. Getting loot will be really hard for some people. This was apparent when I read mastery crafting and listened to the podcast. Maybe things will get fine tuned before release (as they are testing in Turkey right now). We'll just have to see.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

I'm more concerned about people trying to game the system. I can see an influx of support Zeds and jungle Jannas coming from this.

Kinjishi1 votes

Ssshhhh... you're giving people ideas. =b

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

It's not a thing currently for a reason. They don't work. But people are still going to do it just to increase their chances of an S if they win.

theArtifacts7 votes

My team has 4 (1 AFK) other team has 5. We win. I go 0-1-27 as Alistar support. Only get an A

Anidan5 votes

"You died on Alistar, feeder" - the mastery system, probably.

Unstoppable Monk6 votes

Do my job, be punching bag for teams mistakes, carry game, and get a B.

Play support Vi and get S ranking.

WELL I KNOW WHAT MY SUPPORT MAIN IS GONNA BE THIS SEASON. Vi

ClutchCrux4 votes

going 0/0/11 isn't that impressive

IcyPepper46 votes

How so?

For all we know, the total team kill count could have been 11 to 0 or something. Context is important, and no deaths in a game is something everyone (particularly carries, then supports, and then finally frontline) should strive for.

Not dying, especially when assassins are popular, is impressive.

Damagefox38 votes

People like him are the type who ONLY care about "Yeah but its how many KILLS you got that counts" I have said this many times before, But I am a support main myself, and while playing a support (I am pretty sure it was thresh) I went 1/6/19 Half way into the game my adc started chewing me out and verbally abusing me telling how much I sucked. How much I didnt know how to play league or how to play support. Was it my deaths? Nah, i had done my best to avoid that. Vision? Had sightstone and often used it alot to ward all protential ambush points. He as mad at...MY KILLS. He said I didnt know how to support...Because I ONLY HAD 1 KILL.

Thats the problem with this game, its turning into Call of duty where you are only worth anything if EVERYONE goes 28/0 which obviously cant happen. Crowd control? Vision? healing? Buffs? Nah those dont matter, all that Matters is "I GOT DA MOST KILLS ERMAGAWD IM DA BEST!" its really starting to sicken me with this game. I am a support, Which is a role that is NOT FOCUSED ON KILLS.

Part of a team game is everyone contributing. But these people cant look beyond How many times you killed the enemy.

Knalxz2 votes

He probably should of said as Zilean, similar to when you hear a Zac, Anivia or Aatrox didn't die in a game, not exactly shocking and the it's worse on the Zilean because he could literally just give someone an MS boost and get assists from what they did. There is also the possibility that this did happen and the game just stayed away from fights, just sending people into them, which is a Zilean a tactic that I used to do.

If I recall correctly the ratings judge the damage to your health, over all damage and healing to players and skillshots landed.

Him being Zilean and getting a B could mean that the game doesn't know how to tell the difference between revive and counted all his deaths when he ulted himself.

I'm just spit balling here to make sense of it.

Sl1p Sifu xX2 votes

I am father time. I can only revive speed up increase xp and throw time bombs at people. IM ONLY ONE PERSON!>> item 3073 Zilean item 3073

charcharmunro11 votes

The fun times of maining Singed, going 2/10/8 and hearing your team congratulate you.

BIAKaboose1 votes

See, these are the things I miss. When you can go 4/18/2 and still carry the game because you single handedly dropped 11 towers, 7 inhibs, and distracted the enemy for 85% of the game, you'd get praised for being a god back then.

Troll for Trump1 votes

BE careful what you wish for... old Tryndamere

BIAKaboose1 votes

Old Thornmail though, and FoN/Leviathan, it would almost be worth it.

Troll for Trump1 votes

AP Trynd :D

Anidan4 votes

I had a game on Smite where I was playing Hades once. I was chided because I didn't have enough kills. As a tank/engage god. By a Thor who was using my set-up to get the kills.

In short: people are retarded. It's not even exclusive to a role because I've seen supports chide other people for taking their kills, too, and it was in earnest as opposed to joking. Yeah..

supersonic21 votes

You play smite? I play smite too

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

If you remember back when Mastery score started, they stated that you would be compared to other people who also play that champion in that role. Meaning that other ZIlean supports had done something better than he did. Maybe it was more damage. Maybe it was more heals. Maybe it was more wards, gold, kills, etc.

Like you said, context is important. Going 0-0-11 isnt much if your team had 40 kills.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

{quoted}

If you remember back when Mastery score started, they stated that you would be compared to other people who also play that champion in that role. Meaning that other ZIlean supports had done something better than he did. Maybe it was more damage. Maybe it was more heals. Maybe it was more wards, gold, kills, etc.

Like you said, context is important. Going 0-0-11 isnt much if your team had 40 kills.

Updated the thread, sorry about that. Here's your context for the games if you still want to take a look, with more commentary from me

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

I cant make too many generalizations, but from what ive noticed:

Farm is more important than Kills. Ive gotten at least an S- on every game i outcsed my opponent by 100cs, even if i was feeding (happened as Vlad and i just splitpushed all game cause my team was winning 4v5s across the map). Im pretty sure Wards placed matters too, but im not sure - its been a while since ive gotten lower than an A on a laner, and as a support main im used to warding a ton.

For support, wards placed (both regular and pink) and wards cleared matters.

In your support game, you didnt ward that much, especially when youre that far ahead. 13 wards placed (only 1 more than enemy support), tied for wards cleared. Braum getting first blood on your carry might influence that score, but not sure. Also, you didnt really put any pressure on the enemy bot duo - the first kill on the botlaner was around a dragon when Corki roamed down.

Im not saying that you played badly. Im just listing some other factors that could and ive seen influence the rating system aside from KDA.

Earthlord Jazz2 votes

But isn't Zilean a late game support who has a tough early game? Shouldn't this be taken into consideration? I'm rarely punished grade-wise as a laner for putting few wards, but when I'm support, this is the majority of my score? Riot claims that warding is a team-oriented tactic, but they shuffle 80% of the load onto supports who are already gold starved. In my other S game I warded 8 more times but that was due to a 5 minute increase in game length (when the map really starts opening up and I have my sightstone rolling for deep wards). Shouldn't this be factored into the equation if Riot goes to the length of looking at wards placed? I feel like the equation is simply looking at quantity and not quality.

If the system takes into account that Braum got first blood, then certainly if should include the factor that the reason this was ACCOMPLISHED was because I roamed mid to get Corki a kill shortly after

Canidae2 votes

The end kill scores were 17/4, it was a surrender @ 20.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

Shouldn't this mean that our team performed well? People in the comments are saying that grades are dependent on your teammates as well and I'm extremely confused.

Canidae3 votes

Yeah, but by surrendering early your team was denied the gratuitous gold income gained from turrets and other objectives. That being said, it's not impossible to get S-rank on support when the enemy surrenders, it just makes it harder.

Kubox3 votes

I'm surprised you're downvoted for this.

0/0/11 is not that impressive.

From looking at OP's game, it was a short 21 min game where he had a 65% contribution to kills. It's a nice number, but it's nowhere near an S. I'd agree that an A- could have been cool, but the rating is more or less understandable.

Also, from my understanding, the rating is dependent on other players stats. Considering Zilean can be used as a mid laner, it's possible your rating might have been affected by this and this is something that, if it does work that way, should be looked into.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

And yet a mere 6% jump up in my kill participation to 71%gives me an S-? (I re-edited the thread, take a look at my other Zilean game)

No of course not, it's much more likely because I had 3 kills (at the cost of 2 deaths mind you)

Yes, my wards and objectives were better that game because the game was longer

Kubox1 votes

Better kill participation, more wards, more objectives...

Yes, surprisingly, this gives you a better score.

Sarcasm aside, short games have a tendency of lowering the overall rating of everyone (except maybe the fed guy) for that very reason : longer games = more wards, more objectives, more damage dealt, taken and healed, more CS for laners. And, while you can have an impact on any length of game, it is true, that the longer a game is, the bigger of an impact you have a chance to make. In general, as a support my scores tend to be higher in 35/40 minute games than /ff 20 ones.

Does it suck, probably. But the support is not the only one paying for that. My friend can be doing a superb job top, farming and denying CS constantly, but us bot lane snowballed so hard that he never had to leave his lane. Maybe we even snowballed because of how hard he pressured his top laner.

And yet he gets a B+ because we went 13/1 bot while all he got was 2 kills and lots o'farm.

A rating system as a whole, while nice, is really not optimal for a game of League of Legend, because the program used cannot make up for anything than happened in the game, it simply looks at statistics and makes a judgement.

I will agree that I'm not a fan of loot based on S. If anything I'd have a put a static "accumulate X amount of points on a champion to win a box" but hey, it's free, not impossible to acquire and again, it's free. I've gotten many S ranks before, probably much more than on any other role as I main it (although I seem to have horrible luck at actually getting it), and I doubt I'll ever feel like those boxes are simply out of my reach because "I'm support".

You can only get one box per champ anyway, so you'll ultimately want to be able to do many roles anyway. And luckily, supporting has and advantage here : while our kits change, our goals don't. We're still looking to light up the map, deny vision and get our pal here fed. Mastering a handful of supports means you can get S ranks on most of them.

Retillin4 votes

Not much you can do really. Riot is kinda forcing support players to group up. Their rating system is really bad for supports. Doesn't take things into account like you dying to save a teammate (if one of you has to die).

Canidae4 votes

stuff that makes supports get high grades

  • _percent _ kill participation (this is a big one, at least 70%, maybe 80%)
  • kda (the fewer deaths the better)
  • dmg/heal contribution (your goal as a non-dedicated healer is to get into top 6 for dmg, much easier if the enemy team is behind)
  • gold income (cs probably plays a role too, can be squeezed in during some down time maybe)

I think the grade from your game might have something to do w/ teh surrender at 20 (denies a ton of gold income from lost towers and stuff) and how far ahead the mid Corki was. Like I had a 1/0/10 game as Nami and got like a B+ (maybe an A-, i dunno); the enemy adc had d/c'd and they surrendered @ around 20min

For anyone interested, this was an S+ Nami game (solo queue blind pick) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2097767188/230811778?tab=overview

6/2/19 in a 45/22 game

  • 55.5% kill participation
  • 12.5 kda
  • gold income of 10.4k was 4th highest overall
  • dmg contribution of 9.7k was 7th overall, but 9.8k healing made up for that

but to be honest, it wasn't even that good of a game (lots and lots of missed bubbles and tons of room for improved decision making)

Steelflame3 votes

That has nothing to do with you being support bro. It makes your rating based on a comparison to all other Zileans in the support role around your rank within the last 24 hours or so, and based on the stats it finds, rates you as such.

The only issue with this is that I've been noticing people who play Mid Zilean with a rush on Frostqueens are for some reason being called "Support" Zilean even though they are mid. This may be skewing the way the game reads and rates the statistics as a result.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Will we really get things ONLY scoring an S?

If that's the case then we better set up the best premades we can.

Retillin3 votes

Yuppers. Brought this up to Riot and their common reply was, "well anyone in your group gets an S you get the chest as well"...

Stars Shaper1 votes

That seems more fair. Group as premade or group as team?

Retillin2 votes

Premade only. Kinda means you won't see supports (and to a less extent junglers) soloQing.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Time to play only your main if you want to get it then.

Lorinne2 votes

You can only get a chest from playing a character once. I'm not sure if it's once a month or once overall, but it won't be possible to just spam your main at the start of the month and get all four chests quickly (unless you have multiple mains).

Kinjishi1 votes

Hope they have a way to keep track of which champs have already earned the chest, which we can view ourselves, so we don't have to do this manually.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Riot already said they were planning to put an indicator on your profile's champion page.

Rikirie2 votes

As of PBE 2/14/2016, it's 4 chest per month, 1 champ per season, with keys available during any game

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