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If matchmaking and current elo system is fine..

DrNova··1 votes·452 views

Then why are most matches pubstomps. Close hard fought games are rare.

Usually one side or the other has that one or two people who are nowhere near the skill level of everyone else and feed someone who runs all over the rest of the game.

I know I'm no pro but I consider myself very component, but I usually either do well in lane or fight hard to just keep tower against a good opponent/ganks, only to finally have one or two enemies show up very fed and have little to no chance.

I'm not so good I am leagues above my rank even though I deserve better. Alot of my games are hard fought and I end up ahead after lane but going against two or more fed opponents just is too much.

Ideally you could slowly progress by being just a little better then the enemy, but the shit matchmaking gives you (or them) teammates who lack skill so much that it makes your hard fought personal advantage moot.

And before you bring up objectives and such I know, and I always roam when applicable, ward and ping and try to organize taking objectives, but that does no good if you have two 7-1 enemies on the team and your team leading 3-1 is supposed to counteract the complete lack of talent (and prior feeding) of half your team.

And furthermore people say the other team has as much chance as you to have those bad players, let me rebute.

-That alone shows how fucked matchmaking is that its so likely there will be 3 or so people in the game who's talent level is so clearly not in line with everyone else

-With the fucked system of sometimes losing more then you gain in lp BECAUSE of this terrible system even winning 50% often isn't enough to counterbalance the frequent runs of being o. The team with the liabilities, not to mention how often it happens in promos or series when you really need your team to be at the very least average.

Just my thoughts

11 Comments

EL HAMSTERO3 votes

its just the nature of the game. even in a perfectly equal matchup when one team starts to get a lead it can snowball into an insurmountable advantage vert fast.

DrNova1 votes

But it happens so often so early because of poor skill by someone in a lane relative to their opponent.

Later its more reasonable but if at 15 min the enemy is up 10 kills that us just too early and is due to skill imbalances.

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

there are a lot of smurfs around too

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Not necessarily - while often you are correct, there are some champs who are just really punishing in the early game (like how Udyr can reasonably get 5 kills in the first 10 minutes on his own)

Ha Yuri Zahard2 votes

Well to start of, It is nearly impossible to value a persons assets or skill just by seeing how they preform or play. If they were able to judge a player by their elo and match history, high tier teams, such as Tsm, Clg, etc. would just draft their entire team based on elo. However that is not the case. Every player has something unique and different about them, and they will never preform their best at all times, nor will they preform their worst, even Faker, the one renowned as the best mid has struggled and even went on tilt last season. Match making is simply made to just round up how you preform most of the time, however it cannot predict how they will do in the future, just evaluate them. The current matchmaking is good enough as it is, the only problem is that it is impossible to get a perfectly equal team since it cannot evaluate their: -Team synergy -How they will preform

In the end result, you will soon be at a elo where you won't be able to carry or preform will, even if you think you do not belong there, you probably do.

DrNova1 votes

That is my biggest problem with it is the general consensus and reality that to reliably climb you have to hard carry all your games.

If you are consistently hard carrying then clearly you are well below where you belong and will climb.

But if you can't hard carry every game its not fair to conclude you are were you belong, as just because you aren't carrying doesn't mean you aren't doing well. For example very often I win my lane, either I get two kills up or maybe just get a strong cs advantage, or maybe I had a tough lane but kept good cs and most importantly kept tower up.

But while I was putting in all this hard work to get a little ahead or at least keep even top and bottom lane (I main mid so this is usually the scenario) end up dishing out 10 or so deaths between them, and now those lanes lost tower and collapse on me, and several of my other teammates are way behind after feeding and no use.

In the common situation like that I end up punished by the system and get another loss, where if I has teammates near my skill level they would have at the very LEAST known to just be safe and not keep pushing engaging and feeding, and we would have still been left with a very manageable game where we could have made up for it in the teamfighring stage.

You see what I'm trying to say?

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

First: Doing well is not the same as hard carrying. A 0/12/8 support could entirely be the one who won you the game. There is no way to numerical measure the extent to which a player "carried" or "got carried" (another example: if your jungler gets top lane riven fed, and riven then goes 24/1/X, after a bad start, who carried? The jungler or riven?)

Further, you would't WANT to play a game where just your score determined your success. Junglers playing yi and refusing to gank unless they get the kill? Supports who afk if you are doing badly to minimize their deaths? By making winning what matters, we can at least insure that a mutual benefit is the only way to progress.

Finally, I definitely agree and sympathize with hard work turning to naught for things outside your control. Thats why I focus on enjoying the game rather than grinding. The system is designed such that if you should be above your current position, you will have a minimal win rate that is slightly positive versus slowing dropping from those around you being better than you. The result is that you rise through consistency despite alternating adverse and beneficial circumstances. Which, TRULY, makes league frustrating to grind.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

I apologize, I kind of Tl DR'd your post (just skimmed it) but in answer to the imbalance of so many games is simply snowballing. More often than not a small lead leads to an advantage that leads to a larger lead, going a larger advantage. Games where no clear lead occurs early come to be close, but those are what is rare. Often the skill level may be far closer than the end result would imply.

DrNova1 votes

See I don't totally agree with that, because if I had people relative skill level to me they would have realised early they were outmatched, played safe and not fed, and we could have hit the team fight stage in a manageable position not down 10 kills.

To me it seems like a huge core thing but I can't count how often I cry as I watch a lane keep trying to overpush or engage fights they should know they won't win.

I'm talking about early lane phase specifically when its controllable not later when its more reasonable

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

That is an INCREDIBLY cynical perspective, not to mention very unrealistic. "If [you] had people relative skill level to you" - technically, all skill is relative. You mean similar I assume.

"They would have realized early they were out matched" - unless you are talking particularly high skill level, often it can be difficult to truly determine if you are outmatched, and once determined, the opposing player has already killed you at least a couple times. If no help comes from jungler/team, its then too late to actually win your lane. Its more important that YOU realize someone is being outmatched, and try to help them as a team member.

"Played Safe and not fed" - often, those end up being mutually exclusive. Playing safe means falling further behind, thus making it even more likely you will get dove under tower and die. Further, you state it like feeding is something they chose to do, giving NO credit what so ever to the opposing player. Thats pretty messed up man. Opponents often work hard to out play you and your team, and giving them no credit while calling your teammates bad is rude to both parties.

"To me it seems like a huge core thing but I can't count how often I cry as I watch a lane keep trying to over push or engage fights they should know they won't win." - this is the first point you have said that I agree with. But that is were the skill game comes in - often, however, if you have a dim view of your team, you will predict a negative out come and they, believing that they can win (if you didn't think you could win, you wouldn't be playing) will have a positive expectation. Further, the descrepency of how often they win a fight you expect them to lose vs they lose a fight they thought they could win is quite possibly (if not likely) resultant from expectation bias: when you see something that fits your expectations your brain is more likely to take not of it, while events/examples contrary to what you believe are disregarded as exceptions. This isn't me calling you hypocritical or anything, this has been researched in psychology, that all people experience this, almost exclusively on a subconscious level. If you think that may not be the case, I suggest recording the number of times you are surprised by your team vs proved correct. You may be right, but it is a good way to verify.

"I'm talking about early lane phase specifically when its controllable not later when its more reasonable" - definitely the most important part in managing. However, this is also the part of the game that requires the most skill. Once your team is ahead, its easier to stay that way, and once behind, its harder to come back, so late game often has less chance to show skill. A player making a small mistake early (like missing a few cannon minions bot lane) can then miss levels, items, etc. and never show that they are a much better player than their record now indicates. Further, I, again, do not know your elo, but in the lower elos (such as where I make my home; rocking that silver) a kind word, or a bit of help, and a show of faith can help players do much better and kep them from being on tilt, or desperate to prove they are not as bad as it looks. Motivating and leading your team are as important as winning your own lane.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

I don't have this issue. some games are in one teams' favor in all lanes and jungle, some games some are behind and others are ahead. some games my team wins from behind, some games my team loses even tho we're ahead.

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