I need a math/stats nerd..

SuicideJ·Oct 11, 2015·1 votes·524 views

If Kog'Maw builds a Trinity Force, Infinity Edge, & Phantom Dancer, will he lose damage overall compared to using a Bloodthirster instead of Phantom Dancer? Will having Critical Strikes more often reduce damage? Versus having 50% less Attack Speed and 80 more Attack Damage?

Edit: The other items are Blade of the Ruined King, Gnashor's Tooth, Berserkers Greaves. These plus Trinity Force is the core list with either Bloodthirster and Zephyr as Sustain or Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer as Damage.

9 Comments

VesarixxOct 11, 20151 votes

item 3031 item 3046 item 3035 item 1300 item 3072 is usually the 6 item build that will net you the most sustained damage, trinity force is more of a caster item to add burst rather than sustain

so if you're going for burst then this might be a better option item 3153 item 3078 item 3142 item 3072 item 3035

SuicideJOct 12, 20151 votes

Trinity Force is amazing on Kog'Maw. I usually build Lifesteal first and I don't even build IE, but "real players" rush IE.. So I figured I would try it. I really am bad at using actives, as I forget to use them often, even when I planned at the beginning of the match to use them.. >_>

Why 2 phantom dancers? Why not Statkik Shiv? You wouldn't miss a passive and still get good stats from it. And in a way Kog'maw is a caster Champ even with him being an ADC. All his Abilities are at least AP (if not then nothing at all) except for his ult which is AP and AD.

His core item build for pretty much anyone who plays him is Trinity Force, Blade of the Ruined King, Berserker Greaves (Alacrity), and Last Whisper. Everything else is at your discretion.

VesarixxOct 14, 20151 votes

The 2 phantom dancers give you more attack speed and more crit chance than SS, late game the SS passive doesn't really do much for sustained damage, before the Ashe rework I used to use that build all the time, had one game where I was able to duel a Master Yi with it, got a Pentakill and the frelyord quest objective with the same build in another game. The scaling on the first build is the best for DPS.

The second build is one I use on Quinn, usually with Ionian boots if I don't need merc treads, basically means the enemy ADC can never leave their team or they will die.

SuicideJOct 14, 20151 votes

True. But once you get to 100% crit chance there isn't a point to have more crit crit chance. Crit damage only is useful if you have damage. IE being your only source of damage won't do enough for Crits to matter. That is why there is a balance. Like making sure you get to 300 Damage THEN Crit. Means you are doing something useful for the team. I Supported a Caitlyn that built Statikk Shiv first.. Then Boots.. Then a Long Sword.. No B.F. Sword the first 15-20 minutes. That is the problem.

VesarixxOct 14, 20151 votes

This build only gives you 90% crit, I didn't say anything about crit damage, and you easily get enough base damage for the crits to hurt. This build gives you the best stats for consistent DPS, you can test it vs other combinations but mathematically, if you are on a sustained damage ADC, this build will come out ahead every time. You obviously want to rush one of the BF sword items first, usually IE, then one PD, LW then either another PD or the remaining BF item, depending on the game, working boots in where appropriate. In fact, speaking of boots, you also get more DPS late game selling them for item 3172 , if you are on a champion where it makes sense.

Edit: I ran some numbers using teryds league simulator, which hasn't been updated since patch 4.18, so these numbers are a not exact

KogMaw item 3031 item 3078 item 3072 gets 744.3 DPS KogMaw item 3046 gets 885.3 DPS

since patch 4.18 5% crit chance has been removed from IE and added to phantom dancer, meaning that the damage difference is now much greater than these tests showed. Also, swapping Triforce for an second PD granted 956.2 DPS, again, this number would be greater now due to the extra crit chance.

SuicideJOct 15, 20151 votes

Hmm.. Interesting and helpful! Thanks for the tip. I got to be careful not to go past 2.50 AS with Kog'Maw's Q passive included as well. I think I was limited to 3 AS items and it gave me that.. I wonder if I could get this to work in a game..

VesarixxOct 16, 20151 votes

That's a bit of an odd response, building this way does work in game, if you get a lead then I would definitely recommend this build path, it's not really something you need to make work

RogueWillOct 11, 20151 votes

Ok. Short Answer No, you will gain more damage since you will practically critc every AA but you will lose a lot of your survavility that BT provides and since you are Kog I don't know if that will be wise but that's a matter of playstyle thing.

I made a graph for you and this are the assumptions.

You are Lvl 18
No masteries or runes
Only Items you have are Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer/Bloodthirster
You are allowed to Attack on an iddle enemy champion
No armor/magic resist on the enemy champion
You don't use any active ability (Q passive was taken into account)
Due to taking Critical Strike into account, damage is calculated statistically (fractions of attacks are allowed)
Patch 5.19 Items and champion

http://s17.postimg.org/i1k368z8v/graph.png

As you can see Damage wise PD will give you more since you will practically proc your IE extra damage every time. The extra Attack Speed however was not high enough to outdamage the BT thou. The percentage damage on average was 37% more damage with the PD over BT.

SuicideJOct 12, 20151 votes

I personally usually build Bloodthirster first on any ADC I play. Mostly because I love the concept of Lifesteal and I like survivability to crit damage. Which makes me weird I know, but it is amazing how they can't counter me with crit. AS + Lifesteal + Damage (Raw or Crit) = unkillable. Well.. at least mostly unkillable. Add Exhaust to your Summoner Spells, and they will not hurt you.. It's beautiful. But that is my playstyle. My usual build on like MF or any ADC (or at least normally, it has changed lately) is usually Bloodthirster, Blade of the Ruined King, Zephyr, Phantom Dancer, Boot's of Swiftness (don't ask, I blame it on my bestie), and Maw of Malmortius.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. I am looking to be more efficient with my playstyle and strategies. xD