Riot keeps creating systems to punish those who AFK or leave a game

PubgamerAU·Mar 18, 2015·2 votes·633 views

Why don't they go to the source of the problem. Instead of retroactive punishment, why don't they create a system that PREVENTS toxic games?

Create a queue that allows people to join games in progress with leavers/afk'ers. Lessen the punishment for leaving a game. You'll have less angry people that leave(feeling like they're wasting time in a lost cause) and less people angry AT those leavers(they get a replacement who's likely both positive and better skilled).

Allow those that leave to join other games, while at the same time costing them a penalty in IP/LP(like dodging queues). Then provide people who join games in progress an incentive(the leavers IP/LP + Whatever they would have earned themselves)

23 Comments

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20152 votes

I dont think this idea would really solve the problem. my solution would simply be shut the game down automatically for someone leaving or dc'ing, or may be Riot should fix their loss prevention system to better detect these kinds of problems so as not to punish the people who actually stayed. having the game find a replacement just isnt valid in my opinion for a game like this. (1) it makes for an easy target if someone jumps in and isnt leveled up (2) the damage output of someone who jumps in that has no items and isnt leveled will not help in team fights or objective control. this idea could only work if someone DC's early before a match starts and before everyone reaches the level 6 mark.

You have to keep in mind this game isnt like shoot em up multiplayers where someone can drop out and another person can easily take their place. those types of games you generally dont get boosts for kills, there is no farming, and its all about picking up random weapon drops and controlling parts of a map with weapons that are generally well balanced.

People who leave shouldnt be able to join other games either. Your actions affect other players you get queued with and you should be punished for leaving them at a disadvantage. losing LP/IP is not enough of a severe punishment and having to wait and contemplate about whether or not you should leave and invoke a 20min waiting penalty is much heftier then just losing some free ip. and there are trolls who dont give a damn about LP so that doesnt solve that problem either.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

They wouldn't start with a new champion at level 1 with no items... they'd take the place of the leaver, with their champion at the level they left with the items they left.

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20151 votes

even under this criteria the idea still doesnt fly with me. whos to say its a champion in a lane that someone would play or pick up. my assumption is you're thinking of a feature that would allow a player to say 'i want to join a game in progress' and it would search games showing you the champion and lane thats needed. but how many players would pick a game where a player left a game with a typically unplayed champion in a lane that doesnt normally befit him. so now people are saying 'no' and no ones joining that specific game, or theres only going to be a small amount of people willing to join a game in progress leading to a long time of inactivity where the position is still left unfilled because there arent enough people willing to do it.

there are all sorts of new problems that could arise with this idea. not to mention a system like this would be costly and time consuming to design and implement when there are much easier solutions. it just doesnt seem viable that someone would be thrown into a game immediately when this happens. plus even thats frustrating (ever play a Halo game where you're thrown into a match in progress on a shit team thats losing and the score is so out of whack its impossible to come back?)

the problem is the person leaving. prevent people from leaving. how do we do this? thats the answer people would like a solution to. letting someone into a game in progress could even be worse than just 4v5. how about we implement a system where if its a 4v5 the game pauses and provides the team at a disadvantage to surrender early. or the game could pause and someone on the other team can leave with no penalty to make it even grounds. ideas like this are simpler and make players who are being let down by the leaver feel like they arent wasting time.

personally i think hefty penalties like leaver buster are fine; however, i feel like loss prevention needs to be more sensitive and take more things into account. there should also be an easier way to repeal penalties if a player feels like they've been unjustly punished.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

how about we implement a system where if its a 4v5 the game pauses and provides the team at a disadvantage to surrender early.

Too many people have a 'never surrender' attitude. I would rather give the team the best chances of winning, over just giving up.

or the game could pause and someone on the other team can leave with no penalty to make it even grounds.

Nobody is going to give up a free win like that.

ideas like this are simpler and make players who are being let down by the leaver feel like they arent wasting time.

My idea doesn't just make people feel like they aren't wasting time; it actually prevents people from wasting time. You have a far better chance of winning a 5v5 than a 4v5 from a leaver.

"Hefty penalties" do nothing to fix the source of the problem. Reactive punishment doesn't help at all. The prison system is a fantastic example of this. A massive 40% of ex-cons are back in prison within 3 months of being released. 40%! It's obvious that punishing someone AFTER the problem does nothing to make those affected by the problem feel better. It does nothing to lessen the probability that someone will cause a problem in the future. Nobody is sitting there thinking "Oh... last time I left I got a warning about leaving games... I better not do that again" but plenty of people are seeing it as a 'buffer' period, where you wont actually be punished.

The simple fact of the matter is, punishment doesn't make people feel better. Not very many people care about what happens to the people they report. There's a small minority you'll see making a post every month or two about it, but otherwise people report and forget, 'trusting in the system' to fix the problem.

The only fix is to make those affected by the problem feel better, and the only way to do that is to minimize the impact that leavers have on their games. Once again, punishing them after the fact does nothing for those affected, thus people still complain.

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20151 votes

either way your argument doesnt lessen the fact that your system wouldn't immediately replace a leaver. as I said above who's to say that a replacement would be immediate or happen at all, theres going to be wait times. so all while you're waiting for a new player to join you're still going to be losing chances to rebound and thus are still wasting time due to a players absence.

as I said with Halo reference no one wants to be thrown into a match against their will in a lane with a champion they didnt pick so thats out of the picture. even if people choose to join a match in progress, you're still going to get "leavers" who will join the match just to leave again on purpose, and then whos to say there would be enough people willing to join a game in progress that would outweigh the amount of leavers.

you're idea isnt fixing the problem either and im not trying to bash it just pointing out some flaws. also punishment isnt supposed to make people feel better the idea is that if you punish someone enough they will either (a) learn to stop a certain behavior or (b) if they continue their behavior they'll be perma-banned which is what honestly should start happening. we need to fix this 'trusting in the system' mentality to having an actual system, which there isnt; especially now that leaver buster is automated and tribunal is gone. and why in gods name are you using a prison analogy. this isnt prison. use real facts and stats for the game which you are trying to fix. you lessen your argument using a strawman like that.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

You... haven't actually read through my concept in this thread properly have you?

Nobody is forcing anyone into anything against their will. This would be a separate option. A third button next to "match me with teammates" and "I'll invite friends" called something like "Join existing match". If someone joins and leaves a match, they will also receive the leavers penalty of IP and LP.

Perma bans don't do anything. I've had 4 separate accounts perma-banned, 2 of them on NA. I've played this game for 4 years, and I'm on my 5th account.

You want me to use real facts and stats, but you wont accept my real facts and stats?

Um... ok

I think it's pretty clear you're just arguing for arguments sake. It's obvious you haven't actually read through the thread and you're just objecting on some personal grounds. I've had to correct several of your faulty assumptions so far such as people joining as a level 1 champion, people voluntarily giving up a free win, and forcing people into a existing game. I think before you make another post, you should properly read through my replies and OP in this thread, and seriously understand what it is I'm proposing.

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20151 votes

I think you're too attached to your idea (and you're not the only one who's had this thought). but either way if you can polish it up in a way thats fool proof that will stop trolling and leavers forever then good for you. I doubt it, but hey prove me wrong. I still think increasing the sensitivity of Loss Prevention is a much better and simpler solution to the complaints.

also you provided a fact about prison. this isnt prison its league. give stats about the % of people who leave in one day, # of 4v5 losses, # of people who have been banned who still play, look into the % and reasons of why people leave, stuff like that which would actually be relevant.

also never said force. i even stated a scenario in which people could choose to join, which would still require wait times and still wouldnt guarantee that the number of people who choose to join a game in progress would outweigh the number of people leaving.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

Correcting you once again:

thrown into a match against their will

ie. Forced

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20151 votes

which was commenting on what happens in multiplayer games like halo and was simply an alternative i provided after I stated this, which was the whole paragraph before i wrote that

my assumption is you're thinking of a feature that would allow a player to say 'i want to join a game in progress' and it would search games showing you the champion and lane thats needed. but how many players would pick a game where a player left a game with a typically unplayed champion in a lane that doesnt normally befit him. so now people are saying 'no' and no ones joining that specific game, or theres only going to be a small amount of people willing to join a game in progress leading to a long time of inactivity where the position is still left unfilled because there arent enough people willing to do it.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

Again if you had read my other comments regarding the idea, you wouldn't be assuming completely false shit.

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20151 votes

salty. no wonder you were banned so much. may be you're part of the problem

177A Bleecker StMar 18, 20151 votes

My idea was kind of like in cs go where someone else on the team could control the afk

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

Too confusing. People already make mistakes in teamfights controlling 1 character, imagine trying to coordinate 2 champions like Lee Sin and Thresh.

TrylobyteMar 18, 20151 votes

If this isn't optimism, I don't know what is.

How would this work exactly? You have a five-man team comp that's now down a man, but someone else can join in... except that the new person is inevitably going to be behind everyone else in gold and XP and thus effectively useless anyway. They're either going to be on a champion they don't play with runes, masteries, and summoners they don't know about, or they're going to have to choose a new champion, runes, and masteries that may not fit with the team comp, lane matchups, or currently-owned items of the person they're replacing. And there's no guarantee they'll be any better-skilled or positive than the person they're replacing, which could result in immediate toxicity if they log in to an obvious loss in progress, which is likely.

Banana WookieMar 18, 20151 votes

well its not fair when you have an annoying family who constantly kicks you off when your playing, not only that but i cant even play league around my brother because he hates it so much he disinstalls it whenever he sees it. its not fair or right that i gotta wait 20mins for the next 5 games because of that

Takeuchi 17Mar 18, 20152 votes

hahahahaha i cant even take this seriously. if its that much of a problem then may be you just shouldnt play? or just play in custom games. you're doing nothing but letting other people down for your home issues and therefore are part of the problem. it really annoys me when people try to blame their home issues for DC'ing or afk.

this game requires you to sit at your computer for an extended period of time and you sure as hell know this. if you haven't allocated that time properly do us a favor and dont log on, dont play ranked. Its your own fault and you should be punished if you didnt listen to mom and dad so they unplug the wifi, are being forced to take the dog for a walk because you didnt want to do it earlier, or didnt pay the internet or electricity bill or blah blah blah blah blah.

take care of your shinto at home and manage your time better or have a nice talk with your parents or brother about it to allocate that time. dont let other people down for your problems. you should have to wait even longer for afk/DC'ing for dumb excuses like that

RaptameiMar 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well its not fair when you have an annoying family who constantly kicks you off when your playing, not only that but i cant even play league around my brother because he hates it so much he disinstalls it whenever he sees it. its not fair or right that i gotta wait 20mins for the next 5 games because of that

Before I started typing, the three word suggestions by Android were "I", "The" and "Retarded". Just saying.

OhOkYeaMar 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well its not fair when you have an annoying family who constantly kicks you off when your playing, not only that but i cant even play league around my brother because he hates it so much he disinstalls it whenever he sees it. its not fair or right that i gotta wait 20mins for the next 5 games because of that

That sucks but maybe if you show your family that you can be responsible for your own life, they will be more respectful of what you do in your free time.

And I'm not saying punch your brother in the face, but you can't expect him to stop if you let him do it without standing up for yourself.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

You have a five-man team comp that's now down a man, but someone else can join in... except that the new person is inevitably going to be behind everyone else in gold and XP and thus effectively useless anyway.

Better than not having a 5th at all. Gives your team an actual chance. Besides, the player joining the game in progress can always catch up. They might hit 6 items a couple minutes slower than the rest of the players, but at least you'll have a 5th player actually contributing.

They're either going to be on a champion they don't play with runes, masteries, and summoners they don't know about

Player joining the game in progress joins a 30 second pre-game lobby*(just like the 30s after everyone's selected their champions in ranked and the game's about to start)* in which their champion is already selected*(leavers champion)*, they're able to see items already bought and being used by all players, they're able to see the other champions currently in the game, and they're able to select runes/masteries appropriate for the game.

And there's no guarantee they'll be any better-skilled or positive than the person they're replacing, which could result in immediate toxicity if they log in to an obvious loss in progress, which is likely.

People who leave games are very unlikely to join the 'in-progress' queue, as leavers have likely left a losing game. Leavers don't want to join a game they themselves would have already left. Besides, even if there are a few, most of the players that join said queue are more likely to be the type of "never surrender!".

TrylobyteMar 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Better than not having a 5th at all. Gives your team an actual chance. Besides, the player joining the game in progress can always catch up. They might hit 6 items a couple minutes slower than the rest of the players, but at least you'll have a 5th player actually contributing.

In my experience, this part is unlikely to be true. When I see someone on the Rift that's 4 levels and 2 items behind everyone else I'm not going to think 'Let them catch up.' I'm going to think 'Gold piñata!' and gank the crap out of them, getting my team more fed than if the fifth player hadn't joined at all.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In my experience, this part is unlikely to be true. When I see someone on the Rift that's 4 levels and 2 items behind everyone else I'm not going to think 'Let them catch up.' I'm going to think 'Gold piñata!' and gank the crap out of them, getting my team more fed than if the fifth player hadn't joined at all.

That implies the leaver left during the laning phase. 4 levels also isn't that big a deal after around the level 10-11 part, which is fairly easily reached.

I think you're just trying to find an excuse that this wouldn't work.

KazaashiMar 18, 20151 votes

How would a system like that work?

Honestly, it seems counter productive to how the game is supposed to work. That would encourage people to leave games and make the whole problem worse. AFKs and DC suck, but so do lot of things in life.

PubgamerAUMar 18, 20151 votes

See: the OP, replies below

It wouldn't encourage it, because the leavers would receive IP and LP penalties. They would lose IP, and part of their ranking(if playing a ranked game).