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Tank jungle where are you. @Riot, Merrelo, Iron, Parrot, balance team or any red.

Angry Monster·2/24/2014, 6:47:33 AM·5 votes·1,133 views

alright before people say that tank jungle is strong. Lets get something straight Shy, jax, oalf, ect are not tanks they are fighters. Can they be built tanky? Why yes they can. But this is not what this is about.

I am talking about the Sej, Mao, Naut, ect. They people whose sole design is to absorb as much damage as possible and try to CC the front line.

Pick rates
Mao 1.72% Sej 2.42% Naut 1.6%

So what is wrong with these 3 champs. Several things hold these champs back.

To start they tend to have mana issue and require a 2nd blu to be effective. Now people will say they this is a trade for running tank. I think that is the wrong way to look at that. Example level 1 saplings on mao cost 70 mana and the cost scales up and the damage does not scale well at all. All cool downs are locked at the level 1 ranked.

Enemy itemization: All the health tanks have one weakness. They have to build health since they cant do effective damage. Some of the ablites of the require high max% to do anything. There is an easy in game counter for this. % health damage. Mages, fighters and ADCs all have easy access to these items. Forcing health tanks to build more and more health/ defensive items compounding that they can't deal damage.

All tank items right now are designed to be used by the fighter class. I know part of LOL is the fact any champ can buy any item. But the fact is that Tanks have not be compensated for the fact that there core items keep getting nerfed cause fighters to do everything better. Why take a true tank when your fighers can get almost as tanky and do damage?

Please upvote and post agree disagree ect. I really would like to see a red response to lets keep this thread visable

25 Comments

LVNsNASmurf2/24/2014, 11:12:29 AM4 votes

I personally feel with her strong engage on ult, Shyv is a tank. However, the real reason tanky junglers are not in vogue is simply two reasons.

One, the jungler is broke due to weak gold

Two, the jungler needs damage to make early ganks happen, and not ganking til 6 or later might as well be a surrender.

Sneak Dog2/24/2014, 10:45:46 AM2 votes

Personally, I'd start looking at the still awful income of the jungle. The golem spirit costs a lot of gold for the raw stats it gives. If you value tenacity about 350g, you need to gain 400g with the conservation and butcher passives just to get a return. Conservation takes 10 minutes to generate this amount of gold just to make the item worth its cost (only the spirit wraith item is efficient, with the silly amount of ap it gives if farmed).

I thought it was supposed to increase the jungle income, but I often find myself with 80 conservation stacks having to siege with the team or being behind and incapable of stealing away two jungle camps before an ally or the opponent does. It needs 10 minutes of efficient conservating to be cost-efficient (with the exception of the spirit wraith, which does actually give insanely good stats). Compare this to the final upgrades of the coin and relic shield, which cost the same and increase ones gold income by more, their raw stats are both worth it. Spellthief's edge actually isn't, but I honestly don't ever see that item anyway.

Nowadays, I feel like I am simply broke as a jungler if I don't get snowballing. I am near support-levels of gold as I look at the postgame stats. I personally blame this to the jungle still giving little gold and conservation kicking in way too late and not giving premium value, but instead compensating for the inefficiency. Compared to the all too efficient new support items, this feels unfair.

A second explanation could be that the items increase jungle speed by a percentage, compared to madred's which increases it almost flatly (scaling only with as). This makes building dmaage much more efficient for jungling nowadays because current madreds is no longer intended for tank junglers.

I have used the league of legends wikia for the worth and cost of these items. These stats are calculated using the cheapest item that gives that stat as a baseline (main examples would be long sword, amplifying tome and ruby crystal).

s7efen2/24/2014, 8:38:27 PM1 votes

All either can't duel well early or require blue buffs. If you need a second blue buff, and a champ does the same thing as you do but doesn't, he will be picked more frequently.

Eg - Amumu, Wukong all outclass the 3 listed champs while being better early game and less mana dependent.

Angry Monster2/25/2014, 2:59:15 AM1 votes

There has been a few posts were we are disagreeing what a Tank is. Some people keep saying that SHY is a tank. I disagree with this statement with the fact the in game character definitions as a fighter. Can she get tanky? Of course.

IF we are going to say SHY is a tank then every other tank in the game needs to have her power is some format. She could 1v1 any of the 3 from the original post from even behind.

I am not against raising the power of the above 3 to that level. Though i do believe that they are in different categories.

Thoughts?

Sabrestrike2/25/2014, 6:10:27 AM1 votes

I think the Spirit item changes right now heavily favor AD champs with strong single target spells. Note that right now, single target spells and AAs generate 8% Health and 4% mana based on damage dealt while AoE spells generate half of that. This means that during second and third clears the ad assassins/fighters will be healthier while coming out of the jungle and clear faster (because their kits/ SotEL clear faster than tank kits and SotAG)

Look at Kha/Wukong/Pantheon and you can see several potent SotEL users.

The upcoming change 6%/3% on all spells will be a buff to AoE spell clearers and reduce the sustain of single target AD based junglers.