Class Types

Angry Monster·Apr 13, 2014·11 votes·1,494 views

This is long post but i hope done clearly and easily on the eyes. Please up vote to get visibility. @Morello @Lyte @Jag @Xelnath @Red

So Riot has a issue withing league of legends. This problem keeps people from having meaningful conversations about champs. The problem is the classification system. While riot has changed names for some classes they did it in areas that were not needed and have missed the area of contention.

There are 3 terms that people do not agree on, Fighter Tank and Bruiser. Some champs can be called all 3 terms and it would be hard to argue that they are wrong as examples . As you can see without clear terms what does each term really mean.

Then we run into the problem of light fighters. While fighter and light fighter can mean 2 different things they also tend to confuse people that are not thinking all the way through. If you were to poll people they would hear fighter and assume that the 2 are similar or try to accomplish the same thing. Also the light fighter can beef up messing up the issue even more.

While people may not agree with my terms, this is an example of how riot can clean up the naming and some confusion of purpose. This will also remove the dual naming.

Tanks - Health Based CC walls. Late game purpose to hold the front line not killing the back.

Bruiser (was fighter/ heavy fighter) - Durable mulit-purpose damage dealers. They can do it all but not the best of everything.

Fighters (was light fighter) - High DPS champs. Great at taking on ADC(marksman) but does not do well going in first of team fights. Bad at front line fights.

Again these terms are what i personally would use and starts getting rid of the double classification. Naming helps defining strengths and weaknesses. And allows for clear conversations.

How would u classifiy? Did i miss a group?

26 Comments

MaeethorApr 14, 20142 votes

Agreed, but its not like riot ever cared too much about their classification system, although they should.

NeofederalistApr 14, 20142 votes

The issue with the term "tank" is that it has a variety of different definitions depending on the context.

"Shen is a tank." "Lee Sin is building tanky." "Jax tanked 3 people and secured a kill on their ADC."

None of these terms are wrong, but we'd probably agree that neither Lee Sin or Jax are tanks even though the word is applying to them. Interestingly, we don't have similar multiple meanings for fighters or bruisers.

I would define the difference between bruisers and fighters based on their reliance on auto attacks. Renekton LeeSin Rengar are bruisers. XinZhao Irelia Aatrox are fighters.

The relatively new term "light fighter" applies to an auto-attack reliant fighter who has higher mobility and less innate durability/cc. MasterYi and Yasuo fit the definition the best.

If we're categorizing champions, the best way is probably to look at the types of items they like to buy. If they don't generally build a single damage item, they are a tank. A bruiser will build 1-2 damage items, and generally not for the attack speed item 3074 . A figher will buy 1-2 offensive items and will almost always have AS as a component ( item 3078 and item 3153 ) Light fighters get even more AS ( item 3087 )

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20142 votes

under the new names. being a tank and tanking would have different meanings. Though i am totally for a new Noun over tank.

i think everybody all agree on your placement of champs for bruiser. though again some people would argue that Renekton Shyvana are bruisers or tanks at the moment. (the reason of this thread).

Irelia XinZhao Aatrox I am not in agreement here(opinion). I don't not believe that there really is a fighter and then light fighter if we have bruisers. These 3 champs are only defined by there builds and i have seen total glass XinZhao since feral flare.

thanks for the point of view

NeofederalistApr 14, 20141 votes

The issue that we're running into is that with well over 100 champions, they fall into a continuum rather discreet categories.

At one end, you have pure tanks: Rammus Nautilus . Champions who hardly ever build anything except HP/resistances. Then you have bruisers. They generally have less CC than pure tanks, but their spells deal more damage. Renekton LeeSin to compensate. Is Shyvana a tank or a brusier? She doesn't fit neatly into either of those descriptions, she can be built either way. What about Nasus ? His only CC is a single target slow, he has no gap closers, and builds either full defensive or close, but the threat of him hitting your carry with SS means he gets focused anyway. On one hand, I feel like the argument is silly because both tanks and bruisers generally fulfill the same role on a team: they occupy the ADC and ideally 1 or more other members of the opposite team while your team cleans up.

I wouldn't just write off the "fighter" distinction. Midgame Irelia Aatrox XinZhao stand a chance at killing an ADC in a duel, whereas Renekton or Lee Sin don't (well, shouldn't unless they're incredibly far ahead). The reason for this is they have AA buffs that makes AS a lot better on fighters than bruisers.

Again, I think this distinction is important, because it clarifies the champion's intended playstyle buildpaths and patterns, not necessarily role on the team.

I think if we're getting technical, Light Fighters are more traditionally called melee carries, and a "light bruiser" would become a burst AD caster or assassin. ( Zed Khazix Talon ).

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20142 votes

Well i would say Shyvana does alot of damage with her spells and auto attack. That % magic damage e hurts ALOT.

But there rest of your post. The game needs clear definitions. Is 4 categories needed maybe? but i feel 3 could do it. But we can not use terms with light/heavy in the to break up classes.

AD casters are AD casters or mages (same difference) they do not need to be renamed. There is no argument over what they are.

I am not saying to throw the whole naming scheme out the window but we do need to define better.

Please upvote thread for visibility. I would like this to stay in the whats hot category so people may come in.

Remlap1223Apr 14, 20142 votes

Tanks: DrMundo Galio JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Sejuani Shen Sion Alistar Singed Skarner Taric Yorick Udyr Garen Amumu Chogath

Basically self defined. Meant to be big, scary, and really hard to ignore. Either have lots of cc, or have sustain and damage over time. Not really huge focus needed on them, unless they get fed.

Bruisers: Aatrox Blitzcrank Gangplank Gragas Hecarim Jax Nasus Olaf Renekton Riven Trundle Tryndamere Udyr Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing Darius Poppy Rammus

Pretty much self defined as well. Burly champs that hit hard. Don't have as much sustain or defense as a full tank, but have great dueling potential. Will put you in a very bad spot if you make extended trades.

Fighters: Evelynn Fiora Irelia Khazix LeeSin MasterYi Pantheon Rengar Diana Jayce

These guys are the all in champions. Get the kill or die trying. Have much higher burst potential than bruisers, but are much squishier. These guys blur the lines between assassins and bruisers.

Finally, Assassins: Leblanc Akali Fizz Kassadin Katarina Nidalee Nocturne Quinn Shaco Talon Yasuo Zed

These guys are the squishies that will take your health bar from 500 to zero in very little time. All quick burst damage, or high poke damage with mobility to back it up, these guys will take down everyone except the tankiest of opponents if you're out of position.

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20142 votes

I don't agree with the definitions you provide. I feel that some are to board and others are to narrow.

here are 2 examples that crumble your list. (opinion, riot may agree with you.)

Damage is not what a tank does. Tanks are meant to hold a front line. We agree mostly on the rest of the definition. Now i may just be holding on to old thoughts.

Assassins. I don't like this as a class. see other posts in thread. But also i have a hard time with the definition u post. 500 health? 1/4 of a squishy max hp at level 18. I help Jax can 2 shot shoot someone at that point. So can a few others.

But you prove my point. Riot has failed to provide solid definitions and none of us are on the same page.

Thx for your post

Remlap1223Apr 14, 20142 votes

The problem doesn't arise from my definition, but the build. There's a very large grey area in which a champion would be considered a tank or a bruiser depending on the build. Same goes for fighters, they could build a little more tanky, and fit more of the bruiser trope, or build all damage and essentially fit the role of melee adcs. In addition, many champions can be played in multiple roles, not just builds ( Alistar Amumu Anivia Blitzcrank DrMundo Evelynn Ezreal Fiddlesticks Gangplank Garen Jayce Karma Kennen LeeSin Leona Lulu Lux Malphite Nautilus Nidalee Nunu Orianna Poppy Shen Sion Sona Soraka Syndra Tristana Trundle Tryndamere Udyr Zac Zilean Zyra )

Best Slayer NAApr 14, 20141 votes

Think you hit the nail on the head on this one.

Juuni desuApr 14, 20141 votes

As someone that always plays support or mage, I guess I don't pay attention too much to how to call the others (other than stuff like Top or Jungler), but good points anyway. If a character has too many labels, it just leads to confusion and will make someone take a champ into a spot where they are just going to have a bad time or have their teammates have an unrealistic expectation of what's going to happen.

Sir ArmaMalumApr 14, 20141 votes

I use 'Bruiser' in my teamspeak normally already, but I'm weird when I call the light fighters 'dancers'. Not the best name for it and fighter works better, but that's just how I call them myself, because that's how I normally find them playing moving back and forth looking for the most opportune time to go in, but only after 'the music's started'.

DantilqApr 14, 20141 votes

Yea to divide the three classes of melees into something better than tank and fighters is kinda good.

I totally agree with calling the middle-class bruisers, it's already kinda established. Tanks is too.

I am not so sure about fighter though, a figher is a guy that does fighting, sure, but often this is the tanky melee class in games, and currently bruiser and fighter is used interexchangably. I think instead you should pick another name for the class.

Dancer was a better name IMO, because in conveys they squishiness, but it doesn't say what they do in the fight.

Skirmisher would be an even better name I think. Skirmisher is a light fighter that is not in the middle of the brawl, but stays mobile at the edge. It's what light fighters excell at, skirmishes.

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20141 votes

Again i am not saying they should be my names. This is how i tend to currently divide things for my self and was usign it as an example.

Thanks for the name suggestions.

DantilqApr 14, 20141 votes

I do think that is a good idea for riot to do though, to give them unique names not "light fighter" and "heavy fighter" you can kinda make sense of it, but more clear cut definition is good.

What about assassins, they are kinda close to light fighters/fighters/skirmishers?

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20143 votes

I feel that is more of a build type or action. The term burst mage is what i consider assassins. Ahri Talon are both burst mages but one is ap and the other is AD, which is fine.

Burst mage means using everything for a quick kill(ideally) This is what and assassin does. While champs Rengar Irelia Khazix can also be assassins in the aspect that they hunt down and pick off defenseless targets(like burst mages) but its a more prolonged encounter and more chances to escape.

So to me an assassin is any champ that goes around trying to pick off other champs.

please up vote thread. Since just new posts don't raise visibility.

DantilqApr 14, 20141 votes

So you would say that Zed is a fighter, and an assassin?

What would you call Yasuo then?

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20142 votes

zed is a burst mage. he goes in and uses everything. so is an assassin

Yassou is a fighter that can be an assassin or his game play encourages assassination.

I really feel assassin is not a classification but an action or what a class can do.

DantilqApr 14, 20141 votes

But zed have fairly short CD abilities, and deals substantial amount of damage with his autoattacks, is he still a burst mage?

Angry MonsterApr 14, 20142 votes

yes. He pokes/harasses with his skills. just like Lux . When either champ wants to wipe someone out they use there full kit.

At 40% cdr Lux also has fairly low cool downs. How are these champs different? Because when Zed ults he can do a melee for a tad more damage? Lux can do the same thing to proc he passive and be more efficient with spells.

Burst just means using everything. Not high CDR

ArtoriusIVApr 15, 20141 votes

The problem is tank can be split as well into a tank(build magic resist and Armour and health) and sustain tank (builds HP, lifsteal and AD/HP AP and spell vamp) this distinction is pretty big, in a similar fashion to a light fighter and bruiser are.

Angry MonsterApr 15, 20142 votes

in league there no pure sustain tanks as of right now in league. They all have to build damage and that sounds more like a bruiser than a tank.

I am i wrong is there a real drain tank right now that works without damage? And item 3153 is damage a major one that amazing stats.

Upvote thread please.

AbiwonKenabiApr 16, 20141 votes

From the looks of the early iterations they appear to be attempting to turn Warwick into a drain tank. But you are right: as of right now, no one in League really fits the bill of "drain tank." The closest you get is Aatrox, maybe, but his sustain is used for the purpose of lasting long enough to deal a ton of damage, not to take the blows for your team and heal them back.

Angry MonsterApr 16, 20141 votes

i know this is way to early to say this. But i feel that the drain idea on the new Warwick is not going to make him a real tank. First off if you can only hold someone on a ult that is not a tank( again i personally feel true tanks are the walls champs.)

I see this as just another brusier. You are still going to build damage in some format item 3153 to real damage and then some D stats through in to survive.

I could be totally wrong but that is how his kit is reading so far.

AbiwonKenabiApr 16, 20141 votes

Hence why I said "attempting" as I agree, this seems like a kit that could very easily turn into a bruiser or fighter type kit/build with lots of survivability. I think the aim is to make it so his passive alone (along with his Q) won't need a lot of itemization other than tank stats, thus making him tanky. He has the option of building damage, but being squish(near Aatrox style) or building tanky and having a lot of sustain, but not a ton of damage. We'll have to wait and see if this holds true.

r4zEnApr 15, 20141 votes

This is something that could help newer players a lot, I think. I've been playing for a couple years and it doesn't matter to me how you classify Irelia , I just know she'd better get nerfed soon. But as a new player I remember being absolutely befuddled when looking at champs. Other than the ones whose role is fairly 'hard' defined and obvious (no one ever builds a tanky adc in serious play, you don't see double item 3027 on Ahri , etc), I just built item 3078 on everything because, ya know, tons of damage. Anyway, call something a fighter and I immediately think, gapcloser who auto attacks. Is this the case with all of the defined fighters? No. So, I think a reclass is in order. For the newbs.

As for someone who mentioned the continuum, I absolutely agree. Build matters a lot more than anything else for all of the current fighters. What would the OP do about that? I can take a Nocturne and make him a bruiser by building really tanky ( item 3207 item 3143 item 3102 item 3065 item 3153 ), or a terrifying fighter (using OP's classification)by building glassier ( item 3160 item 3035 )

OP: Since very many of the bruisers/fighters dont neatly fit a definition, how do you classify?

Angry MonsterApr 15, 20141 votes

no matter what Nocturne does not preform as bruiser. He just breaks to easily and its anti his kit. wants to pick someone off. Just cause you can take a non-optimal build does not change what he should be doing or the intended purpose.

You want to try and fight the champ design go ahead. But that should not keep us from having a clear understanding of who these champs are.